Schlecks Depreciation Thread

[ferryman]

andy is 26? do you think that he is going to stay at radioshleck forever? they only get a second chance at 35. you know de deal.

he is a disgrace if you compare him to contador, tom, canc, freire, cav, etc. that's the point. obviously the guy know how to ride a bike (no he doesn't. lol)

C&C I really think you are letting your blinkered hate for Andy to get in the way of logic or at least in the way you think a rider should be. You almost had my sympathy until you mentioned Cav in comparison Yes he is 26 (I think) and has a fantastic palmares for someone that age.

I didn't compare him to anyone and certainly not Contador, who is a level above anyone I've ever seen. Embrace the Schlecks for what they are. Without them it would be a very much poorer Pro scene just now, particularly in any GT without Alberto or for that matter with him.

 

[The Hitch]

Johan Vansummeren

Show me the pictures of thousands waiting outside the airport for his arrival and of him getting a guard of honour at the nou camp

and where in Belgium can i find his statue ?

 

[El Pistolero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4hB5KN5taY

 

[Havetts]

The off-season, also known on the Cyclingnews-forum as the Bash-Schleck-Season.

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4hB5KN5taY

Its not quite the same is it?

Cancellara for example got no recognition for winning Flanders AND Roubaix.

But when he won Olympic Gold in the Time trial (not even the rr) he was voted Swiss of the year.

Check mate.

The off-season, also known on the Cyclingnews-forum as the Bash-Schleck-Season.

Yes cos Schleck hasnt made any comments during the off season to provoke a response

 

[Havetts]

I was just kidding, it isnt like Andy isnt stupid during the normal season

 

[The Hitch]

I was just kidding, it isnt like Andy isnt stupid during the normal season

You make the mistake of thinking we hate Andy cos hes stupid, or just cos. Its because hes a bully.

If I saw you on the street beaten up by Levites and Samaritans, I would help you up my brother, and on your behalf, dislike those responsible for your plight.

Similarly I cannot sit by and watch andy call moncoutie a *** or insult Sastre.

Maybe you can, but not me brother. Not me.

 

[Havetts]

Nope. I really disliked the comments towards Sastre and Moncoutie, Sastre especially. But you can't always keep looking back to the past, it'll get you nowhere. Not forgiving Andy for his stupid remarks, his stupid actions - but to only see through the goggles of hate is not right either.

 

[El Pistolero]

Its not quite the same is it?

Cancellara for example got no recognition for winning Flanders AND Roubaix.

But when he won Olympic Gold in the Time trial (not even the rr) he was voted Swiss of the year.

Check mate.



Yes cos Schleck hasnt made any comments during the off season to provoke a response

In 2010 there were better Swiss athletes than Cancellara, check mate.

 

[The Hitch]

In 2010 there were better Swiss athletes than Cancellara, check mate.

He came 5th. He didnt finish just behind Federer and Amman but 3 others as well.

Federer won an olympic gold and a gs in 2008. In 2010 he won just the gs. Yet in 2008 he finished below Canc and in 2010 he finished above him.

 

[The Hitch]

Nope. I really disliked the comments towards Sastre and Moncoutie, Sastre especially. But you can't always keep looking back to the past, it'll get you nowhere. Not forgiving Andy for his stupid remarks, his stupid actions - but to only see through the goggles of hate is not right either.

Well its not like people just keep posting their hatred of Schleck randomly. Someone posts something others respond and this way the discussion keeps going.

Personally ive never felt any hate or got angry about Schleck. I just get involved in the discussions on the other side.

 

[Carols]

He was never involved in Contador's case and he was the best rider in the tour and was first on GC(GC wise) ,therefore to say he hasn't won the tour in pure idiocy
Yet I agree with you concerning the whining.

Well I think that's pretty harsh...idiocy you say! Even Andy knows who won and it wasn't him.

Andy agrees with me (OH NO)....actually earned some respect from me when he said:
"If now I am declared overall winner of the 2010 Tour de France it will not make me happy. I battled with Contador in that race and I lost. My goal is to win the Tour de France in a sportive way, being the best of all competitors, not in court. If I succeed this year, I will consider it as my first Tour victory.”

And I don't hate Andy, I'm just Severely Disappointed that a rider with so much natural talent has made such a hash of his career.

 

[Carols]

Embrace the Schlecks for what they are. Without them it would be a very much poorer Pro scene just now, particularly in any GT without Alberto or for that matter with him.

I did embrace them! I rooted for them and cheered them and still will for Frank. Then Andy getting tossed from the Vuelta for being out all night drinking did me in on him. Such disrespect for the sport and the fans is intolerable IMO. I don't hate him by any means I just think he isn't 'a true cyclist' or champion.

 

[ferryman]

Well I think that's pretty harsh...idiocy you say! Even Andy knows who won and it wasn't him.

Andy agrees with me (OH NO)....actually earned some respect from me when he said:
"If now I am declared overall winner of the 2010 Tour de France it will not make me happy. I battled with Contador in that race and I lost. My goal is to win the Tour de France in a sportive way, being the best of all competitors, not in court. If I succeed this year, I will consider it as my first Tour victory.”

And I don't hate Andy, I'm just Severely Disappointed that a rider with so much natural talent has made such a hash of his career.

Not really. He has finished 2nd 3 times in the TDF, twice against the greatest GT rider of this or possibly any generation. He did make a hash of it last year though, agreed. And sorry to keep on about his age but his career is just unfolding really, particularly if you compare him age wise to the other GT contenders this year

 

[Libertine Seguros]

[/B]
Not really. He has finished 2nd 3 times in the TDF, twice against the greatest GT rider of this or possibly any generation. He did make a hash of it last year though, agreed. And sorry to keep on about his age but his career is just unfolding really, particularly if you compare him age wise to the other GT contenders this year

I think the problem is that, much as Evans compiled a palmarès primarily of placements for many years while Menchov was a triple GT winner, Schleck has focused on one or two races, only to then lose those races to people who've been doing much better than him all year and already have a better palmarès than him.

Here is Andy's list of victories as a professional in its entirety:

2005 Luxembourg ITT Championships
2006 Sachsen Tour Stage 3
2006 Sachsen Tour Stage 5
2007 Deutschland Tour Stage 2 (TTT)
2008 Tour de Pologne Stage 1 (TTT)
2009 Liège-Bastogne-Liège
2009 Tour de Luxembourg Stage 2
2009 Luxembourg Road Race Championships
2010 Luxembourg ITT Championships
2010 Tour de France Stage 8
2010 Tour de France Stage 17
*2010 Tour de France
2011 Tour de France Stage 18

So, if you take out the two TTTs and the Luxembourg Championships, you're left with a monument, a Tour that he didn't actually win on the road but received 18 months down the line, and then... two stages of the Sachsen Tour as a 21 year old and a stage of his home Tour as ALL. He's won one (1) stage race in his entire life, and that was one that was given to him after he originally came 2nd. Not the kind of palmarès that befits a guy of his undoubtable talent.

 

[theyoungest]

I think the problem is that, much as Evans compiled a palmarès primarily of placements for many years while Menchov was a triple GT winner, Schleck has focused on one or two races, only to then lose those races to people who've been doing much better than him all year and already have a better palmarès than him.

Here is Andy's list of victories as a professional in its entirety:

2005 Luxembourg ITT Championships
2006 Sachsen Tour Stage 3
2006 Sachsen Tour Stage 5
2007 Deutschland Tour Stage 2 (TTT)
2008 Tour de Pologne Stage 1 (TTT)
2009 Liège-Bastogne-Liège
2009 Tour de Luxembourg Stage 2
2009 Luxembourg Road Race Championships
2010 Luxembourg ITT Championships
2010 Tour de France Stage 8
2010 Tour de France Stage 17
*2010 Tour de France
2011 Tour de France Stage 18

So, if you take out the two TTTs and the Luxembourg Championships, you're left with a monument, a Tour that he didn't actually win on the road but received 18 months down the line, and then... two stages of the Sachsen Tour as a 21 year old and a stage of his home Tour as ALL. He's won one (1) stage race in his entire life, and that was one that was given to him after he originally came 2nd. Not the kind of palmarès that befits a guy of his undoubtable talent.

Of course, this is partly the result of his being so good that from 22 years of age he's been the team leader in the biggest races for a rider with his characteristics: the Ardennes classics and the Tour. Do you really expect him to go for the Giro and the Vuelta? Wouldn't make sense.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Of course, this is partly the result of his being so good that from 22 years of age he's been the team leader in the biggest races for a rider with his characteristics: the Ardennes classics and the Tour. Do you really expect him to go for the Giro and the Vuelta? Wouldn't make sense.

Was he the team leader in 2008? When he won all of nothing except a 10km TTT? After that, yes he's the team leader, but where are the stage races elsewhere? Not one has he won. Except the one he got through the courts that he doesn't even really consider himself the victor of. Even at the peak of his, er, peaking, Ol' One-Race-A-Year won other stage races (2001 Tour de Suisse, 2002-3 Dauphiné, 2004 Tour of Georgia). And when he wasn't winning them, Lance was getting good placements in those warmup races, and winning minor races like the Chrono des Nations and so on. What's Andy doing in his warmup races? Losing time in mountain stages to José Joaquín Rojas.

 

[ferryman]

I think the problem is that, much as Evans compiled a palmarès primarily of placements for many years while Menchov was a triple GT winner, Schleck has focused on one or two races, only to then lose those races to people who've been doing much better than him all year and already have a better palmarès than him.

Here is Andy's list of victories as a professional in its entirety:

2005 Luxembourg ITT Championships
2006 Sachsen Tour Stage 3
2006 Sachsen Tour Stage 5
2007 Deutschland Tour Stage 2 (TTT)
2008 Tour de Pologne Stage 1 (TTT)
2009 Liège-Bastogne-Liège
2009 Tour de Luxembourg Stage 2
2009 Luxembourg Road Race Championships
2010 Luxembourg ITT Championships
2010 Tour de France Stage 8
2010 Tour de France Stage 17
*2010 Tour de France
2011 Tour de France Stage 18

So, if you take out the two TTTs and the Luxembourg Championships, you're left with a monument, a Tour that he didn't actually win on the road but received 18 months down the line, and then... two stages of the Sachsen Tour as a 21 year old and a stage of his home Tour as ALL. He's won one (1) stage race in his entire life, and that was one that was given to him after he originally came 2nd. Not the kind of palmarès that befits a guy of his undoubtable talent.

Good post, but if you dig a wee bit deeper he has placed pretty well in most of the Ardennes that he has competed in.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I agree with Libertine and those who say that Andy hasn't achieved what he could have.

Yes, two second places and a win (or three second places depending...) in the biggest race of the season as well as a monument win and a second place in the second largest grand tour is definitely great and most riders would easily swap palmares with Andy.

The problem is that he could have done, and probably won, so much more had he not focused on only two races each year. I think that's what makes so many cycling enthusiasts dislike him, including myself. He's got the talent for sure, but he seems lazy and when things aren't going his way he's whining about it, faulting anyone else than himself.

It's like he's not taking any races seriously and in a way almost making a joke out of races in which other riders are fighting like mad men.

If a rider with obviously less talent than Andy had fought and suffered and had achieved what Andy has, he would be celebrated as a hero.

 

[hrotha]

Menchov does so why cant he?

He can. He won't.

 

[LaFlorecita]

If a rider with obviously less talent than Andy had fought and suffered and had achieved what Andy has, he would be celebrated as a hero.

+1 to this. As long as a rider fights for what he achieves, it doesn't matter what "what" is, I'll always respect him.

 

[cineteq]

He's won one (1) stage race in his entire life, and that was one that was given to him after he originally came 2nd. Not the kind of palmarès that befits a guy of his undoubtable talent.

The fact that he hasn't won a stage race, like País Vasco or Dauphiné ever, it's enough for me not to take him seriously or have any respect for him. His 2nd places in the Tour means nothing when he just prepares for one stage race during the whole pro cycling season, year after year. Can you imagine if all riders would do the same? Do you think he would have finished 2nd in all those Tours?

 

[Red Rick]

What is schreck going to do when he wins the tdf on the road? Is he going for another one, or will he just quit the sport. That seems just the thing andy schreck would do, win the race he wants and then quit te sport. It would be boring as hell cause we'd need to bash someone els

 

[thehog]

[/B]
Not really. He has finished 2nd 3 times in the TDF, twice against the greatest GT rider of this or possibly any generation. He did make a hash of it last year though, agreed. And sorry to keep on about his age but his career is just unfolding really, particularly if you compare him age wise to the other GT contenders this year

He's a hard guy to hate but he is a bit of a girl to be honest.

You may say his career is unfolding but for all that talent he really does his best to lose. I don't see him becoming a champion that we'll all remember in 20 years.

Every victory he'll amass will have a star next to his name. The star will be because someone got nailed for drugs or half the field crashed out of the race.

His greatest victory was LBL. With Riis he had the right voices in one ear. I don't know if Bruyneel can do that to him..... Bruyneel has worked with Armstrong and Contdor - you really didn't need to keep those two guys on the road with much advice. Andy is a child - I'm not sure he'll respond.

End game is he hates leadership - he is scared of it. Once Frank is cut off he'll sulk.

 

[movingtarget]

The fact that he hasn't won a stage race, like País Vasco or Dauphiné ever, it's enough for me not to take him seriously or have any respect for him. His 2nd places in the Tour means nothing when he just prepares for one stage race during the whole pro cycling season, year after year. Can you imagine if all riders would do the same? Do you think he would have finished 2nd in all those Tours?

Well Armstrong did the same but the difference was he won.......regularly and he was super committed. I think that is the problem how committed is he ? I think he lacks mental toughness. Put Voeckler's determination in Schleck's body and he would be a champion. For me the only bright point in Schleck's 2011 TDF was the Galibier stage and that's just not enough to win a race that goes for three weeks. If you compare Evan's stage results to Schleck's over three weeks it is obvious who wanted the win more.