Score the Tour Teams

May 18, 2016
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Score the Tour Teams out of 5 for their TDF performance.

AG2R: 3.5
Astana: 0
BMC: 3.5
Cannondale: 0
Dimension Data: 4.5
Etixx: 1
FDJ: 0
IAM : 3
Lampre: 1
Lotto–Soudal: 3
Movistar: 2.5
Orica: 4
Giant: 3.5
Katusha: 2.5
LottoNL–Jumbo: 0
Team Sky: 5
Tinkoff: 4.5
Trek–Segafredo: 2

Bora–Argon 18: 1
Cofidis : 0
Direct Énergie: 1
Fortuneo–Vital Concept: 1


What do you think?
 
Mar 9, 2013
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I would not give Astana a 0. They actually tried to take it to SKY. Cannondale gets a zero. So I give Astana a 1.
 
Oliwright said:
Score the Tour Teams out of 5 for their TDF performance.

AG2R: 3.5
Astana: 0
BMC: 3.5
Cannondale: 0
Dimension Data: 4.5
Etixx: 1
FDJ: 0
IAM : 3
Lampre: 1
Lotto–Soudal: 3
Movistar: 2.5
Orica: 4
Giant: 3.5
Katusha: 2.5
LottoNL–Jumbo: 0
Team Sky: 5
Tinkoff: 4.5
Trek–Segafredo: 2

Bora–Argon 18: 1
Cofidis : 0
Direct Énergie: 1
Fortuneo–Vital Concept: 1


What do you think?
IMO...
BMC deserves a 4 (stage win, yellow, and top 5 would've been a second place without bad luck, at least Porte tried to attack so...)
Dimension Data a 5 (5 stage wins, I don't think they could've done better)
Lampre a bit more than a 1 (Meintjes a bit better than expected and Rui Costa tried everything he could, for a *** team they did pretty decent)
Lotto Soudal a 3.5 (How was Giant better? a stage win on the Champs & one on the Mont Ventoux, it doesn't get better than that. Also second place in the KOM classification and the super combativité with De Gendt)
Tinkoff a 5 cause they have Sagan (3 stage wins, green en polka dot jersey, super combativité, top-10 GC and all that without Contador)
Direct Energie 1.5 or even 2 (no stage win, but at least they came close and tried to get one)
Also, I understand why you give Astana a 0, but at least they tried to do something with their team.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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AG2R: 5
They got Bardet on the podium, which is awesome. Vuillermoz was present in a good few breakaways, and the support for Bardet was always pretty decent for a team of their size.
Astana: 1.5
Deserve some rating for at least trying with Aru, but not getting a top 10 or a stage win despite having the last 2 GT winners is not great.
BMC: 4
Good effort from them. Porte should have done a bit more, and van Garderen was a waste of space, but a stage win and yellow were pretty decent.
Bora-Argon 18: 1
Not really very interesting.
Cannondale: -everything
I have literally nothing to say.
Cofidis: 1.5
Poor Cofidis. Bouhanni wouldn't have been any good anyway, but Navarro not winning was harsh.
Dimension Data: 4.5
They came for Cav, they won with Cav. Cummings also very Cummings-y. I imagine there'll be some disappointment that their young African talents didn't really do anything, especially since Meintjes was so good.
Direct Energie: 2.5
They got on TV, a lot. They got in pointless flat breakaways, a lot. They got Thomas Voeckler to be a *** (admittedly not hard), a lot. The only thing they didn't do a lot was win, but Coquard came close enough.
Etixx-Quick Step: 3.5
An interesting Tour for EQS, defined really by disappointment, but only because they set themselves very high standards as the race went on. Kittel was expected to be the fastest and wasn't, partially since their leadouts were consistently awful. But not many people expected Dan Martin and Julien Alaphilippe to be as good as they were; equally, however, in the end it was genuinely disappointing that the frequent attacks both put in never came to anything.
FDJ: 2
It looked good for FDJ, for about five minutes on Arcalis. Pinot would surely take a stage win and would challenge for the polka dots. Pinot's illness then ruined their Tour, which is a shame. as was the epic uselessness of the French champion. Still, bonus point for being the team of The Great Sebastian Reichenbach.
Fortuneo-Vital Concept: 1
Didn't get in that many breakaways, but reasonably visible. Sepulveda decent. McLay looked terrific.
Giant-Alpecin: 3.5
Solid. Degenkolb still recovering, Dumoulin brilliant, Barguil somewhat disappointing.
IAM: 4
Pantano was the revelation of the Tour and Sondre Holst Enger looks incredibly promising. Often visible on the front, so, if you're considering managing your funds in Switzerland, you know where to go.
Katusha: 4
Rodriguez was excellent. Zakarin was very active. Kristoff was unlucky.
Lampre: 3
Rui Costa will never win anything ever, Meintjes was a true ninja and Durasek looked reasonable.
Lotto-Soudal: 2.5
Seemed to redeem their consistently terrible positioning on sprints in Paris; equally, however, their sprint train ran out of men a long way out and, had Greipel not forced his way onto Kristoff's wheel, it would have been another ***-up. De Gendt was excellent.
Lotto NL-Jumbo: 0.5
Groenwegen wasn't up there that much, Vanmarcke did nothing, Kelderman...crashed.
Movistar: 2.5
Tactically abysmal. Izagirre's stage win was at least decent for them, but Quintana was obviously abysmal and Bala just didn't do that much.
Orica-Green Edge: 3
Yates' performance was impressive, but lacked a huge amount of support from his team. Impey was extraordinary. Gerrans looks past it, and Matthews doesn't really look to be on the level he's always considered himself at. He also sprinted for fourth in the points classification.
Sky: 5
Yeah.
Tinkoff: 4
Re-ran 2014, but with added Kreuziger doing a Landis. Neither Majka or Sagan had any real competition for their jerseys (once De Gendt started working for Gallopin), but Sagan was pretty good.
Trek-Segafredo: 3
Mollema is great again. Cancellara couldn't really do anything. Zubeldia got on TV (!). Reasonable performance.
 
AG2R: 5 (Perfect race for AG2R. 2nd in GC was way more than they could have hoped for)
Astana: 0.5 (Resultwise this was one of Astana's worst grand tours ever. Strong team, but the leader could not follow it up)
BMC: 3 (Porte's goal wasn't accomplished, but Van Avermaet got his stage win)
Cannondale: 0.5 (Rolland's crash was emblematic for their tour)
Dimension Data: 4.5 (Could barely have been a better tour. A bit disappointed with Edvald though)
Etixx: 2 (For any other team, a stage win and a top 10 would have been acceptable. Good riding from Alaphilippe, but he just wasn't good enough to win a stage)
FDJ: 1 (Not a good tour. Pinot let down the team's ambitions)
IAM : 4 (I did not expect the worst team on the WT to take a stage in this Tour. Pantano is a pleasant sight in the breakaways)
Lampre: 3.5 (Costa tried, but just was not good enough. Lovely to see young kid Meintjes in 8th)
Lotto–Soudal: 3.5 (2 stage wins is acceptable. De Gendt performed at his best level)
Movistar: 2.5 (mission not accomplished)
Orica: 4 (Yates in white and Matthews won a stage + got the maximal out of their team)
Giant: 4 (Dumoulin won 2 stages. What is not to be happy about? + John D is progressing)
Katusha: 2 (Rodriguez was good. Kristoff should have won in Bern)
LottoNL–Jumbo: 0 (Kelderman was terrible. Vanmarckes brief attack in Bern was probably the highlight of their tour which is telling)
Team Sky: 5 (mission accomplished)
Tinkoff: 5 (2 jerseys and 3 stage wins which could easily have been 5 stages with a bit more luck)
Trek–Segafredo: 1.5 (Stuyves and Theuns were good. Mollema faded. Fabian did not get a lot ofopportunities because of the route)

Bora–Argon 18: 0 (I actually had forgotten that they were even in the race)
Cofidis : 1 (Navarro was good - at times)
Direct Énergie: 2.5 (Coquard showing his best sprinting form ever on a couple stages)
Fortuneo–Vital Concept: 1 (Was Sepulveda even participating??)
 
Apr 1, 2013
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5: Sky (just perfect with respect to GC)

4: Dimension Data (somehow they must have got Cav up there to perform)
Orica (not very pleasant riding, but clever nevertheless)
IAM (made the max out of their potential)

3: AG2R (not a very strong team, but managed to protect Bardot)
Astana (did some work which didn't pay off, mostly due to a weak leader)
Etixx (at least managed to get Kittel into the sprints, besides some erratic moves like the Martin/Alaphilippe break)
Lotto Soudal (did some work, and placed Greipel quite well in Paris)
Tinkoff (perhaps Sagan doing work for 4 men at least)

2: BMC (bad decision on leadership cost them a podium place)
Movistar (maybe a bit tainted by a clearly sub-form leader)
FDJ (not much success, but if you can keep a Sébastien Reichenbach in Top15 you must have done at least something right)
Giant Alpecin (Tom D solos + Barguil doing a good pacing for Sagan in Berne, otherwise not very visible)
Katusha (quite sometimes around with different people when the rare action arouse)

1: Direct Energie (at least tried sometimes, but perhaps no 'killer' to take it)
Fortuneo–Vital Concept (at least participated in some breaks)
Trek Segafredo (I've seen Spartacus doing some pacing and Bauke falling apart in the last days, but nothing else)


0: Cannondale (were they even there?)
Lampre (seems like 9 free riders there, not a team really)
LottoNL–Jumbo (were they even there?)
Bora–Argon 18 (were they even there?)
Cofidis (were they even there?)
 
Cannibal72 said:
Cofidis: 1.5
Poor Cofidis. Bouhanni wouldn't have been any good anyway, but Navarro not winning was harsh.
Fortuneo-Vital Concept: 1
Didn't get in that many breakaways, but reasonably visible. Sepulveda decent. McLay looked terrific.
It is really amazing what hype can do. McLay, McLay, McLay. So many times mentioned during live reporting on CN - tipped for winning a stage even. So, let's make a little comparison of sprinting results:
Stage 1: Laporte 6th, McLay 9th
Stage 3: Laporte 8th, McLay 9th
Stage 4: Laporte -, McLay 7th
Stage 6: Laporte 5th, McLay 3rd
Stage 11: Laporte 5th, McLay 14th
Stage 14: Laporte 9th, McLay 18th
Stage 21: Laporte 8th, McLay 12th

Laporte is 23 (McLay 24) and if McLay was "terrific", what could you say about Laporte? Yet, everyone boasts only about McLay, McLay... while Laporte produced so remarkably consistent results just a few spots below the top dogs.
 
Jul 4, 2015
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Oliwright said:
Score the Tour Teams out of 5 for their TDF performance.

AG2R: 3.5
Astana: 0
BMC: 3.5
Cannondale: 0
Dimension Data: 4.5
Etixx: 1
FDJ: 0
IAM : 3
Lampre: 1
Lotto–Soudal: 3
Movistar: 2.5
Orica: 4
Giant: 3.5
Katusha: 2.5
LottoNL–Jumbo: 0
Team Sky: 5
Tinkoff: 4.5
Trek–Segafredo: 2

Bora–Argon 18: 1
Cofidis : 0
Direct Énergie: 1
Fortuneo–Vital Concept: 1


What do you think?
AG2R : 3,did well on stage 19 for Bardet but other than that they were to week in the mountains to support him.
Astana : 1, had a go and tried to make the tour exciting however Aru wasn't good enough and they should have realised that and gone for stage wins.
BMC : 2,5, Yes they got yellow which was great but their failure to support LRP cost him a podium and the backing of TVG was a disaster.
Cannondale : 0, Just a disaster through out.
Dimension Data : 5, couldn't of dreamed of a better scenario with Cav and cummings what a tour for them.
Etixx : 2, their train wasn't good enough but the spirit of Alaphillipe in the mountains and of Tony was great to see.
FDJ : 0,5, failed with Pinot but their performance on the stage of colombier was enough not to get 0.
IAM : 4, thanks almost entirely to Pantano and his spirit in the mountains great tour for them.
Lampre : 3 decent tour by their standards with Meintjes getting T10 and costa lighting up the mountains in the breaks only lacking stage wins.
Lotto : 3,5 De gent was brilliant and Greipel getting the win on the chams was nicce to see, not as good as lat year but still.
Movistar : 1 they get half a point for winning the team classification and half a point for the stage win but by their standards it was a disaster, they shouldn't have sacrificed Valverde and stuffed up Quintana's prep not good enough.
Orica : 4,5 as good as it gets a stage win, the white jersey and a top 5. No one would have believed that at the start, if Yates had got on the podium it would be 5.
Giant : 2,5 disspaointing from Bargueil, Degenkolb was never going to challenge but Dumoulin was brilliant and saved there tour shame he crashed.
Katusha : 3,5, Kristoff was never going to be great so no huge disspointement there, Zakarin got the stage and Purito the top 10 decent.
Lotto jumbo : 0 just awfull not much to say about them, Kelderman is overatted and was a total disaster. The rest of the team never even got on tv.
Sky : 4,5 not perfect only two stage wins but a complete performance through out the tour and very assured and strong. only dissapointement not letting Nieve or Landa off the leash in the third week to get some stage wins.
Tinkoff: 4 didn't win the tour as hoped but the rest was perfect from Sagan the star of the tour, Kreuziger attacking to reach top 10 and Majka for the points. Shame they didn't get a mountain stage.
Trek: 1 Failed with mollema and failed for stages, failed with cancellara, schleck was awful, zubeldia inexistant Contador can't come soon enough.
Bora : 1 good in the breaks in the first week but that is it, Sagan can't come soon enough.
Cofidis: 1, was always going to be hard having lost Bouhanni but Navarro lit up the mountains till his crash and saved there tour.
Fortuneo: 3, got a podium through mcclay and feillu was in every break a success by there standards only sepulveda was dissapointing.
Direct energy :2 unlucky through coquard but expected more through the breaks by Voeckler and Chavanel.
 
Oct 5, 2015
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During the 1st week Bora were in the break every day - unfortunately it was a three week long tour ... also Sam Bennett figthing through after his early chrash deserves some mentioning.

So one point for Bora.
 
Oct 10, 2015
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Re:

loge1884 said:
5: Sky (just perfect with respect to GC)

4: Dimension Data (somehow they must have got Cav up there to perform)
Orica (not very pleasant riding, but clever nevertheless)
IAM (made the max out of their potential)

3: AG2R (not a very strong team, but managed to protect Bardot)
Astana (did some work which didn't pay off, mostly due to a weak leader)
Etixx (at least managed to get Kittel into the sprints, besides some erratic moves like the Martin/Alaphilippe break)
Lotto Soudal (did some work, and placed Greipel quite well in Paris)
Tinkoff (perhaps Sagan doing work for 4 men at least)

2: BMC (bad decision on leadership cost them a podium place)
Movistar (maybe a bit tainted by a clearly sub-form leader)
FDJ (not much success, but if you can keep a Sébastien Reichenbach in Top15 you must have done at least something right)
Giant Alpecin (Tom D solos + Barguil doing a good pacing for Sagan in Berne, otherwise not very visible)
Katusha (quite sometimes around with different people when the rare action arouse)

1: Direct Energie (at least tried sometimes, but perhaps no 'killer' to take it)
Fortuneo–Vital Concept (at least participated in some breaks)
Trek Segafredo (I've seen Spartacus doing some pacing and Bauke falling apart in the last days, but nothing else)


0: Cannondale (were they even there?)
Lampre (seems like 9 free riders there, not a team really)
LottoNL–Jumbo (were they even there?)
Bora–Argon 18 (were they even there?)
Cofidis (were they even there?)


Curious that you gave FDJ a 2 rating for having Reichenbach in the top 15 yet you rated Lampre 0 and they had Meintjes finish in 8th and had Rui Costa contently attacking.
Also you are being harsh on Cofidis, lost Bouhanni before the race yet had Laporte step up and take 6 top 10's in the sprints and also had Navarro twice finish 3rd with another 2 top 10 stage finishes.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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PeterB said:
Cannibal72 said:
Cofidis: 1.5
Poor Cofidis. Bouhanni wouldn't have been any good anyway, but Navarro not winning was harsh.
Fortuneo-Vital Concept: 1
Didn't get in that many breakaways, but reasonably visible. Sepulveda decent. McLay looked terrific.
It is really amazing what hype can do. McLay, McLay, McLay. So many times mentioned during live reporting on CN - tipped for winning a stage even. So, let's make a little comparison of sprinting results:
Stage 1: Laporte 6th, McLay 9th
Stage 3: Laporte 8th, McLay 9th
Stage 4: Laporte -, McLay 7th
Stage 6: Laporte 5th, McLay 3rd
Stage 11: Laporte 5th, McLay 14th
Stage 14: Laporte 9th, McLay 18th
Stage 21: Laporte 8th, McLay 12th

Laporte is 23 (McLay 24) and if McLay was "terrific", what could you say about Laporte? Yet, everyone boasts only about McLay, McLay... while Laporte produced so remarkably consistent results just a few spots below the top dogs.
I meant to write about Laporte, but forgot. He was also really excellent.
 
Apr 1, 2013
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Re: Re:

StryderHells said:
loge1884 said:
...
2: FDJ (not much success, but if you can keep a Sébastien Reichenbach in Top15 you must have done at least something right)
...0: ....
Lampre (seems like 9 free riders there, not a team really)
...
[/b]

Curious that you gave FDJ a 2 rating for having Reichenbach in the top 15 yet you rated Lampre 0 and they had Meintjes finish in 8th and had Rui Costa contently attacking.
Also you are being harsh on Cofidis, lost Bouhanni before the race yet had Laporte step up and take 6 top 10's in the sprints and also had Navarro twice finish 3rd with another 2 top 10 stage finishes.
First of all, my list was in no way scientific or even 'after long thought' ... I tried to rate the TEAM as such not individual riders and their success (Da Costa & Navarro for example seemed pretty much to be doing their own thing) ...
I now Meintjes finished 8th, but then again, of what I saw (which is maybe 15% - 20% of the whole race) he was almost entirely on his own, just trying to stick to the pace set by others ... I also think Meintjes is the far more gifted GC-rider than Reichenbach ...
Laporte escaped mine ... however, I'm not sure, if places behind 3rd in a sprint finish would be considered of much worth anyway (besides if you go for the points classification)
 
Cannibal72 said:
Lotto-Soudal: 2.5
Seemed to redeem their consistently terrible positioning on sprints in Paris; equally, however, their sprint train ran out of men a long way out and, had Greipel not forced his way onto Kristoff's wheel, it would have been another ***-up. De Gendt was excellent.
Erm, yeah, except that Greipel actually asked to be dropped off in Kristoff's wheel before the last corner, which went exactly according to plan.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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Jagartrott said:
Cannibal72 said:
Lotto-Soudal: 2.5
Seemed to redeem their consistently terrible positioning on sprints in Paris; equally, however, their sprint train ran out of men a long way out and, had Greipel not forced his way onto Kristoff's wheel, it would have been another ***-up. De Gendt was excellent.
Erm, yeah, except that Greipel actually asked to be dropped off in Kristoff's wheel before the last corner, which went exactly according to plan.
And if Greipel hadn't forced his way onto Kristoff's wheel, that would have been cocked up by both him and the team. It was a risky tactic (with other riders aiming for the same space). It could have not come off. If it hadn't have come off, it would have - deservedly - have been criticised.
 
I think that people aren't giving Movistar enough credit. Sure the top step was their goal, what GC team isn't shooting for that, but they finished on the box (also AV in 6th). Plus they won the team GC,

For comparison, AG2R/RB also came to win the GC and 1) didn't win GC, 2) just edged Mov/NQ by 15 seconds (no other in top 10 and no team title).

5s
Sky
DD

If Tink would have started with their stated goal of green/PS, they probably get a 5 too (and maybe another stage or two), but they came to win the GC and didn't. Plan B was fantastic though so 4.5.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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jmdirt said:
I think that people aren't giving Movistar enough credit. Sure the top step was their goal, what GC team isn't shooting for that, but they finished on the box (also AV in 6th). Plus they won the team GC,

For comparison, AG2R/RB also came to win the GC and 1) didn't win GC, 2) just edged Mov/NQ by 15 seconds (no other in top 10 and no team title).

5s
Sky
DD

If Tink would have started with their stated goal of green/PS, they probably get a 5 too (and maybe another stage or two), but they came to win the GC and didn't. Plan B was fantastic though so 4.5.
But AG2R's team was nowhere near as good as Movistar's.
 
Cannibal72 said:
And if Greipel hadn't forced his way onto Kristoff's wheel, that would have been cocked up by both him and the team. It was a risky tactic (with other riders aiming for the same space). It could have not come off. If it hadn't have come off, it would have - deservedly - have been criticised.
So you're criticizing a plan that succeeded in every aspect? Seems fair.
 
Feb 6, 2016
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Jagartrott said:
Cannibal72 said:
And if Greipel hadn't forced his way onto Kristoff's wheel, that would have been cocked up by both him and the team. It was a risky tactic (with other riders aiming for the same space). It could have not come off. If it hadn't have come off, it would have - deservedly - have been criticised.
So you're criticizing a plan that succeeded in every aspect? Seems fair.
No, I'm saying they would have deserved criticism had it not succeeded because it was a risky plan. I hadn't realised it had been so precisely thought through though - thanks for pointing that out.
 
May 26, 2016
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The fact that Cannondale took part immediately assures the other teams at least a 0.5.

5
Sky: Masterclass
Tinkoff: Polka Dot and Green, three stage wins with Sagan, top 10 spot, absolutely great result especially if you realise that they lost one of their two main men already at stage 9.
Dimension Data: 4x Cavendish and 1x Cummings, almost a Ventoux win as well with Pauwels, a lot more than they expected surely

3.5
BMC: Van Avermaet was amazing, Porte finally showing he can be good for three weeks
Orica: Yates surprising everyone, really well played stage win in Revel

3
Lotto-Soudal: Amazing win from De Gendt at Chalet Reynard and lots of attacking throughout the Tour, Greipel saving his Tour on the Champs
Giant-Alpecin: Major Tom.
IAM: great Tour for a disbanding team, Pantano showing his lionheart and Enger showing his talent.
AG2R: Came for a good GC for Bardet and ended up with a second place and the only non-Froome GC stage win.

2.5
Movistar: Disappointing Quintana but still 3rd, invisible Bala but still 6th and a good stage win for Ion. Average at most.
Katusha: Good stage win for Zakarin and Purito showing he still got it, bad luck for Kristoff.

2
Trek: Could've been way higher if not for their bad luck. Theuns was good and Mollema amazing the first two weeks. After that they crumbled.
Etixx: High expectations, little results. Only one stage with an underwhelming Kittel. Alaphilippe nearly made it multiple times, will be better next year.

1
Direct Energie: Bad luck with Coquard, not much besides that.
Cofidis: Did well considering they missed their main man, but no significant result.
Astana: Point for trying, Aru disappointing and Nibali at moments painful to watch.
Lampre: Great result for Meintjes and Rui Costa attacking every day, should've conserved his energy a bit more.

0.5
Lotto-Jumbo: Very weak team, but still managed to be underwhelming. Kelderman showing he cannot stear and is mentally weak, Groenewegen promising but not there yet and Vanmarcke invisible. Bennett tried, but not on a sufficient level to compete with the best attackers.
Bora-Argon: Bad luck for Bennett, but no alternatives. Buchmann disappointing.
Fortuneo: Visibly lowest budget. Nicked a top 3 spot which the other two teams with 0.5 cannot say.

0
Cannondale: No words to describe it.
 

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