Teams & Riders Sepp Kuss is the next Sepp Kuss thread

[Bolder]

A lot of people thought that was a mistake. And a GT is not comparable to GW.

That said, I have shifted opinion slightly from a few days ago where I was very downcast at the prospect of him winning. As long as Vingegaard and (especially) Roglic don't have to go in total defense mode, I think it very much would be a deserved win. He looked great on the Tourmalet. The next few days will be really interesting, I think.

The thing is, the team essentially put Kuss in this position. Attacking him internally or failing to support him, barring a total collapse, would be pretty disgraceful. Vingegaard and Roglic may not like it, but they have certainly reaped the benefits of being on Jumbo, including having the best mountain dom at their service.

 

[Red Rick]

Maybe I need to watch the Tourmalet again because not only was Sepp not inferior to the other two, he seemed stronger than Roglic and held his own against a Vingo who went very very deep. Had his attack not been balked he definitely would have been even closer to Jonas; at least this is how I saw it. At least at the moment, unless he really fades I don't believe he'll have any problems defending himself; of course, we've all seen people collapse massively in the third week but right now he looks very solid.

Roglic wasn't allowed to do anything until the final 200m and then almost closed Kuss down in only that.

 

[Netserk]

Roglic wasn't allowed to do anything until the final 200m and then almost closed Kuss down in only that.

He tried a counter once before that, but on my second watch that may have been meant as a discouragement for Ayuso.

 

[Red Rick]

He tried a counter once before that, but on my second watch that may have been meant as a discouragement for Ayuso.

IMO that was just leading from the front in the final km stuf fhe likes to do. He's done the fake attack inside the final km many times this year

 

[Valv.Piti]

For what its worth, Kuss definitely looked stronger on Tourmalet than Roglic and only a fraction weaker than Vingegaard. Combined with his great ITT, he's a very deserved winner for now. Honestly can't see either Vingegaard or Roglic miracously being that much stronger than him on the remaining stages, but who knows. And maybe he will even win anyway!

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

SUPPtember!

Go Supp Kess!

 

[CyclistAbi]

On Tourmalet it was the team decision, made before the race, for Jonas to go first. When Kuss went he looked strong. Rogla waited for quite a while, before initiating the attack. And basically finished together with Kuss. So for people saying on how Rogla was the weakest on Tourmalet. That doesn't make much sense.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

On Tourmalet it was the team decision, made before the race, for Jonas to go first. When Kuss went he looked strong. Rogla waited for quite a while, before initiating the attack. And basically finished together with Kuss. So for people saying on how Rogla was the weakest on Tourmalet. That doesn't make much sense.

Maybe the only chance left for the race to deliver is Rogla going rogue at some point ("F**k Grischa. Everybody wants to win, eh.").

 

[Valv.Piti]

On Tourmalet it was the team decision, made before the race, for Jonas to go first. When Kuss went he looked strong. Rogla waited for quite a while, before initiating the attack. And basically finished together with Kuss. So for people saying on how Rogla was the weakest on Tourmalet. That doesn't make much sense.

Impressions. I think its very likely Roglic was the weakest of those three (not unfathomable given we know that Sepp and Jonas are pure climbers and made for these stages, whereas Roglic is a different type of rider) which still amounted to the 3-5th strongest on the day. Roglic usually gains his time elsewhere, so Tourmalet was pretty much on par.

Its only speculations, but that's my impression and I feel pretty strongly about it given what I saw on that stage.

 

[Red Rick]

Impressions. I think its very likely Roglic was the weakest of those three (not unfathomable given we know that Sepp and Jonas are pure climbers and made for these stages, whereas Roglic is a different type of rider) which still amounted to the 3-5th strongest on the day. Roglic usually gains his time elsewhere, so Tourmalet was pretty much on par.

Its only speculations, but that's my impression and I feel pretty strongly about it given what I saw on that stage.

Judging that by rider type makes no sense. In all their GTs together, there's been a whole 2 stages where Kuss was legit stronger than Roglic

 

[Valv.Piti]

Judging that by rider type makes no sense. In all their GTs together, there's been a whole 2 stages where Kuss was legit stronger than Roglic

Sepp is a in superb shape at the moment, even my blind grandma can see that. I have never seen a rider accelerating like Kuss did, slowed down by an idiot, and just continued as if nothing happened afterwards. Don't know how useful that analysis is either with that in mind (Kuss is stronger than ever, at least on par with TdF 2023), and I don't even bother to check if its correct (I assume your refer to Bondone and Angliru).

Given what we know about Roglic and these super tough mountain stages, his performance was pretty good, but I have two eyes and Roglic looked very labored on Tourmalet. Strong finish though, but were used to that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

If Kuss would be so much stronger on Tourmalet. Then Rogla wouldn't have finished right behind him. That is once Kuss created a gap and Roglič didn't want to close it right away. For not bringing the other riders back to Kuss. There would be lets say more like 20s gap then 2s gap in between them on the finish line.

Roglič wasn't weaker he was just being a team player and riding as a GT contender should. Leaving something in the tank for week three.

Tomorrow we will see if the team will return the favour. As the finish should suit Rogla. If not then in my opinion Rogla should not race against his team directly but should empty the tank when being in a position to win this race.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Thats your analysis. My analysis is different.

God damn I hate this. Now Rogla fanboys will go "but he could have gone much faster up Tourmalet"

 

[CyclistAbi]

He finished right behind Kuss. That fact has nothing to do with fanboys. So if in your opinion Kuss was strong. You got your answer on how strong Rogla was on Tourmalet.

 

[tobydawq]

Roglic wasn't allowed to do anything until the final 200m and then almost closed Kuss down in only that.

I doubt that was the case. I think he was struggling, but as usual, he found something extra when he reached the final few hundred meters.

 

[ice&fire]

On Tourmalet Jonas went first. Kuss followed Mas and counterattacked. Roglic was riding too much time at the back of the group looking the weakest of the three. But when Ayuso accelerated Roglic responded instantly..

The day after Ayuso made an acceleration on Larrau and Roglic responded instantly, while Soler acceleration in Belagua was followed by Jonas.

Yesterday Soler attacked in Lizarraga and was followed by Jonas.

This pattern of individual defense was confirmed by Ayuso in an interview yesterday as something he sees all the time.

The day of Javalambre Remco had said he would follow Jonas, so Jumbo sent Roglic on the attack from the GC group.

It looks like there is some brain at the Jumbo cockpit.

As long as sub-peak Jonas and Roglic can handle these attacks and Kuss can keep up, it's in Kuss' bag.

 

[Valv.Piti]

He finished right behind Kuss. That fact has nothing to do with fanboys. So if in your opinion Kuss was strong. You got your answer on how strong Rogla was on Tourmalet.

If we follow that logic, yes, he was the 3rd strongest on the team on the day. I think most rational and experienced followers of the sport would conclude that given how they looked on the climb.

 

[CyclistAbi]

First, second, third strongest ... With all the politics and arrangements ongoing in the team. No real point in trying to determine that, as they where not racing mano-a-mano and against each other. From this debate point of view what we can say is on Tourmalet Rogla was Kuss strong. Otherwise the gap would be bigger, considering the race dynamics and positions riders were in.

 

[Andy schleck]

Maybe I need to watch the Tourmalet again because not only was Sepp not inferior to the other two, he seemed stronger than Roglic and held his own against a Vingo who went very very deep. Had his attack not been balked he definitely would have been even closer to Jonas; at least this is how I saw it. At least at the moment, unless he really fades I don't believe he'll have any problems defending himself; of course, we've all seen people collapse massively in the third week but right now he looks very solid.

Kuss just won 8 s to ayuso, and he benefited a lot from the draft, specially from ayuso. He attacked 2 times, let's not forget. Roglic don't appeared to be that stronger, but it think roglic never was that great on long climbs.
In my opinion Vingegaard was the strongest, and then Kuss, ayuso and roglic were at the same level.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

I also think Rogla was stronger than Kuss on Tourmalet, because he almost finished same time with a much later attack. But Sepp Kuss obviously always looks better than the others in a group, so he gets all of the eye test points from fans.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I’m not sure where I come down on this. I agree that eye test indicated Roglic wasn’t feeling very strong. On the other hand, multiple sources indicate they have distinct roles and a specific plan for that stage, with Roglic marking Ayuso, which he did. And he closed super fast. Vingegaard looked like he dug super deep, like Roglic after the fatal 2020 Tour ITT, but he only out :33 on Roglic despite a lot of watching and tactical riding. Tough to interpret IMO.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It kind of beats the purpose, to determine the strongest, if they played rock paper scissors in the morning.

 

[Netserk]

Thats your analysis. My analysis is different.

God damn I hate this. Now Rogla fanboys will go "but he could have gone much faster up Tourmalet"

How much is much? If Rogla was on another team and rode together with Ayuso and Mas, surely all three would have been quicker on the climb?

 

[Red Rick]

How much is much? If Rogla was on another team and rode together with Ayuso and Mas, surely all three would have been quicker on the climb?

We are supposed to neglect that 1) Historically Roglic has nearly always climbed better than Kuss, that's why Kuss is the domestique in the first place, 2) Roglic did the faster climb on literally every mountain stage prior to the Tourmalet and 3) when you wanna go somewhere the fastest way isn't to go zone 2 for 50 minutes before sprinting the final 200m.

 

[Valv.Piti]

We are supposed to neglect that 1) Historically Roglic has nearly always climbed better than Kuss, that's why Kuss is the domestique in the first place, 2) Roglic did the faster climb on literally every mountain stage prior to the Tourmalet and 3) when you wanna go somewhere the fastest way isn't to go zone 2 for 50 minutes before sprinting the final 200m.

Ah yes, zone 2 Roglic

My god you are downright unintelligent to converse with on some topics. As a moderator you'd expect you were able to do so in a decent manner instead of trying ridicule me and my every argument you disagree on.

Tour of Britain stage winner Van Aert!!