Teams & Riders Sepp Kuss is the next Sepp Kuss thread

[Valv.Piti]

Nobody could have predicted that they basically came to a stand still though

 

[Red Rick]

Nobody could have predicted that they basically came to a stand still though

Fischer Black pace should have been the expectation, and neither Roglic nor Kuss should be happy about FFB trying to pace behind Vingegaard cause that's only gonna end one way

 

[joe_papp]

I mean, what card does Sepp hold? "I won't ride for either of you in future"? Well, the team still has Benoot, Gesink, Kelderman, Valter, van Aert, Kruijswijk and Foss right now, plus they have Matteo Jorgenson coming. Sepp might be the strongest domestique, but it's not like they will lack if he decides he won't ride as a helper in future, and as a leader he would never be afforded the freedom to gain time unchecked that he was given in this Vuelta again.

Vinegeaard signed a three-year extension in April that binds him to the team until 2027, and you really suggest that he'll credibly threaten to break that contract??

 

[Valv.Piti]

Fischer Black pace should have been the expectation, and neither Roglic nor Kuss should be happy about FFB trying to pace behind Vingegaard cause that's only gonna end one way

UAE had FFB and Almeida. FFB was on a good day and was holding his own against Jonas to a certain extent. Gap was prolly 10-20 at the end of the flat section, so its not completely unreasonable to think (under normal circumstances) that the time gain would be minimal. I think Vingegaard wins no matter what, he was super strong, but UAE really just *** the bed. And to a certain extent Rogla and Sepp too cause they allowed it, but still, they couldn't have expected this in their wildest dreams. That's just hindsight and in all honesty just super unlucky.

Unfortunately for Rogla and Sepp UAE played it the dirt worst they could

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Winning the Vuelta is like Kussing your sister anyway. It might be better for his reputation to miss out, but obviously better for him to get it.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Betrayed on Birthday- The Sepp Kuss story, coming soon to MeshFlix. He has gone above and beyond this year by doing three grand tours when he would be only doing one, helping his leaders, saving their butts, pulling them out of the fire. Yet how do they repay him, by stabbing him in the back when he needed help the most, for just one time in his career, that too on his birthday. The cake felt like ashes, the icing like dust. Treachery by those he considered friends. He will leave Jumbo, go over to Remco and lead him to many victories over his former team, repaying the faithlessness two fold, which will be told in Part 2- The Revenge of Sepp Kuss.

 

[GroupDK]

Vinegeaard signed a three-year extension in April that binds him to the team until 2027, and you really suggest that he'll credibly threaten to break that contract??

Contracts don't mean jack in pro sport.
doesn't matter if it's football or F1 or Cycling.
tons of wiggle room..they can just misbehave.. its not like Jumbo can force him to win Tour de France if he doesn't want to.
contracts can be cleared with money.


I don't know what Vingegaard makes, but it does seem quite far from these Middle Eastern regions/teams, sportwashing regimes, that have literally gone berserk with the coins these years to famous sports athletes..
2023 a few months old
_https://news.italy24.press/sports/436760.html

1. Tadej Pogacar (Slovenia, UAE Emirates): 6 million euros;
2. Chris Froome (Great Britain, Israel-Premier Tech): 5.5 million;
3. Peter Sagan (Slovakia, Total Energies): 5.5 million;
4. Geraint Thomas (Great Britain, Ineos-Grenadiers): 3.5 million;
5. Egan Bernal (Colombia, Ineos-Grenadiers): 2.8 million;
6. Michal Kwiatkowski (Poland, Ineos-Grenadiers): 2.5 million;
7. Julian Alaphilippe (France, Soudal Quick-Step): 2.3 million;
8. Richard Carapaz (Ecuador, EF Education-EasyPost): 2.2 million;
9. Wout van Aert (Belgium, Jumbo-Visma): 2.2 million.
10. Primoz Roglic (Slovenia, Jumbo Visma): 2 million;
11. Mathieu van der Poel (Netherlands, Alpecin-Fenix): 2 million;midd
12. Adam Yates (Great Britain, Ineos Grenadiers): 2 million;
13. Thibaut Pinot (France, Groupama-FDJ): 2 million;
14. Romain Bardet (France, Team DSM): 2 million;
15. Jakob Fuglsang (Denmark, Israel Start-Up Nation): 2 million.

Updated with the latest 2023 salaries from a few months ago. (likely same materiel they use)
_ https://cyclingbeginner.com/how-much-do-professional-cyclists-make/

1. Tadej Pogačar (UAE Emirates)	€6.0/$6.5 million
2. Chris Froome (Israel-Premier Tech)	€5.5/$6.0 million
3. Peter Sagan (TotalEnergies)	€5.5/$6.0 million
4. Geraint Thomas (Ineos Grenadiers)	€3.5/$3.8 million
5. Egan Bernal (Ineos Grenadiers)	€2.8/$3.0 million
6. Remco Evenepoel (Soudal-Quick Step)	€2.5/$2.7 million
7. Julian Alaphilippe (Soudal-Quick Step)	€2.5/$2.7 million
8. Richard Carapaz (EF Education-EasyPost)	€2.2/$2.4 million
9. Wout van Aert (Jumbo-Visma)	€2.2/$2.4 million
10. Primož Roglič (Jumbo-Visma)	€2.0/$2.2 million
11. Mathieu van der Poel (Alpecin-Deceuninck)	€2.0/$2.2 million
12. Adam Yates (UAE Emirates)	€2.0/$2.2 million
13. Thibaut Pinot (Groupama-FDJ)	€2.0/$2.2 million
14. Romain Bardet (dsm-firmenich)	€2.0/$2.2 million
15. Jakob Fuglsang (Israel-Premier Tech)	€2.0/$2.2 million

Nevermind, the latest stats in the link above.. actually explain Vingegaards 2023 contract..it seems Jonas Vingegaard here in 2023 is actually earning 500.000,
dang, so it's not like he has to do work at the fish market in his local city anymore.

500k is a lot of money in annual income for a young dude like him... and perhaps he also gets some performance coins from being a double Tour De France winner and P2 in 2021 TdF, and a superb Dauphine winner. like we see in other segments like F1 o-r football where there are some performance options.

However, not sure if there is any bonus for being a superb leader on the UCI world stage race ranking, for quite a long time, likely not.

but 500k here in 2023 is a lot of money' and as long as he doesn't have to clean fish all day.. I reckon he is ecstatic..
maybe he could get more from some of these regimes that, are sportwashing, like there is no tomorrow..perhaps. in certain regions, where the moral bar aint that high
- not looking at you, aka the region that goes under a new name, who previously was named "Danelaw") where it's sadly more the norm, than not to pursue the lowest common nominator of easy coins' from some of the most brutal regimes the globe can muster)

Sepp Kuss is estimated to earn between 1.5 to 2 mio in 2023... so 3 to 4 times more than this Vingegaard, and clearly also shows how important Sepp is, when making like 4 fold more than the double Tour de France winner here in 2023.. and Jumbo' knows that, its their hard-earned team-money... they put them where it matters.

Sepp Kuss is the real value for this Dutch team and it should be him that Jumbo Visma should build on and their future leader..
I don't see much future for Vingegaard at Jumbo Visma... the dude should take a hint and look at the hard cold facts.

Jonas Vingegaard can take his 500k here in 2023 and leave and perhaps flesh some fish on his way out..
wheew "working cleaning fish" as one's income & day job in a fish town in Denmark (Glyngøre).. Imagine smelling fish all day, that is the pedicle of no class!
When I was his age, I had my own private hedge fund here in inner Copenhagen, mainly focused on daytrading / scalping Danish and Norwegian container shipping rates/stocks with high leverage.... cleaning fish as one's income, wow
It makes sense why so many people (likely very young) mocking him for having such a day-job to earn money for cycling gear, and expenses going to attend cycling races, - and instead label him with all sorts of fish-titles... cleaning fish at the local fish-cleaning factory in a fishing town, no thx.

Jonas Vingegaard to United Arabic Emirates (UAE), and alongside Pogacar and Jonas & him can do the Tour as teammates and take turns whinging it to the top.
whatever that gets him away from this Dutch team "Jumbo" could be a start, and then Sepp can be the main card for Jumbo.

So "contract or not, it doesn't matter, and you can bet, Other teams where money doesn't have any merits - would gladly help this Dutch team out, with some coins, and so Sepp can get a fair shot and ALL the help he could want to get him through "difficult" hard stages.

 

[hfer07]

JVT should let Kuss win it as a reward for his hard work for both Vinge & Primoz.
Gestures like that goes a long way to benefit the team balance & will make Kuss more committed to help them out in the future GTs.

#LetKusswinLaVuelta

 

[Blanco]

He worked his ass off for those guys for multiple years. Because he rode brilliantly he is now the leader in a GC, something that will be hard to replicate every again (his words). Without him Roglic would have 2 GT's less on his palmares (Vuelta couple of years ago and this years Giro). He's an amazing domestique and now found him in the position to win this Vuelta. I find it weak that for some reason you accept that Vingegaard/Roglic ride you out of that jersey and that win. If Kuss wouldn't finish on the podium, sure, that's fair that they would take over. But that isn't the case. The podium will be only Jumbo. They can decide who will win, and they decided to ride for themselves.

I find it weak that he just accepts this after everything he has done.

And he needs to do and say what exactly?
He can't go publicly against them, cause it would pissed his bosses, and he isn't such big factor in the team.
He's the weakest of the three, and he knows that very well, he rides practically half a year with them. If it is every man for himself he loses this Vuelta. He needs to pray that some sort of deal is made between Niermann, Vingegaard and Roglic that things stands as they are no more attacking, and only way he wins is this.
That's why he's keeping his mouth shut, not cause he's mentally weak.

 

[tobydawq]

He apologised to Landa after the stage for sprinting after having been in his wheel. "I had to go for the bonus seconds".

He really is new to this GC game.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Bravo Sepp. Held up beautifully and kept the leaders jersey on Angliru. Don't be afraid to attack first, on remaining stages, as the other two will for sure attack too And happy birthday.

 

[Sciatic]

Bravo Sepp. Held up beautifully and kept the leaders jersey on Angliru. Don't be afraid to attack first, on remaining stages, as the other two will for sure attack too And happy birthday.

I think it only makes sense for him to attack if he’s sure he can drop Vingegaard. If he attacks and gets brought back by his teammates, I think they will take that as a signal indicating “the gloves are off” and everyone is in for themselves.

But I see your point too—it’s probably inevitable that one or both will attack, so if he’s going to defend the red jersey he should be more aggressive.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Sciatic

In my opinion nobody will really chase down JV three musketeers on this race anymore. It's in between them now. To sort it out.

 

[jmdirt]

SEPPtember!

 

[saunaking]

Contracts don't mean jack in pro sport.

So why is Remco still riding at Soudal?
Why is Alaphillipe still riding at Soudal?
Why is Froome still riding at Israel?

 

[Oldermanish]

He worked his ass off for those guys for multiple years. Because he rode brilliantly he is now the leader in a GC, something that will be hard to replicate every again (his words). Without him Roglic would have 2 GT's less on his palmares (Vuelta couple of years ago and this years Giro). He's an amazing domestique and now found him in the position to win this Vuelta. I find it weak that for some reason you accept that Vingegaard/Roglic ride you out of that jersey and that win. If Kuss wouldn't finish on the podium, sure, that's fair that they would take over. But that isn't the case. The podium will be only Jumbo. They can decide who will win, and they decided to ride for themselves.

I find it weak that he just accepts this after everything he has done.

So the domestique is paid more than Vingegaard to be the stable climber domestique. You know the job; don't crash on flat stages, mail in the TT and blow up any opponents in the mountains. When a 3 week strategy relies on knowing every rider's capabilities a DS can plan and the guys paid to win better do their job. That job isn't being a 2 week domestique for a great teammate that may not survive after ridiing two prior GTs. It looks like Sepp can but that hindsight is still not assured until tomorrow.

Meanwhile the often broken Roglic is on form, maybe not part of the Tour team because that's not announced and currently very certain that his brother-in-arms Jonas will go off script to secure his position. He proved today that, despite allowing said B-I-A enough time to get back on the podium he can still win the toughest stage. Never mind the potential incentives, endorsement income, etc that comes from winning the race you're paid to win.

I think Sepp is honoring his responsibilities and may still win this. If he takes it, that will be phenomenal and well-earned. If he were on another team do you think this situation would exist?

 

[Sciatic]

@Sciatic

In my opinion nobody will really chase down JV three musketeers on this race anymore. It's in between them now. To sort it out.

I think you’re right; I meant if Kuss attacks, and his two teammates are able to follow, then they are likely to attack him in turn

 

[DGrant]

Pretty disgraceful performance by Jumbo on the Angliru after all the competitors we're blown out. Sepp has passed all the tests and may be a half percent off to the multi-time tour winners he's helped to win time and time again. Jonus should have paced him to the line at least. Sepp is too nice to call them out which is unfortunate. Let's get behind Sepp Kuss moving away from Jumbo. Done with Jumbo.

 

[saunaking]

If he were on another team do you think this situation would exist?

Who knows?? If he were on another team maybe TJV would be in disarray because of having mr. nice guy in red Jonas and Rog would just be attacking each other while Sepp was bringing a rival to the finish

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Wait is it at all accurate that Roglic makes less than Carapaz, Bernal, Froome, Sagan, Alaphilippe, a very young Remco, etc? And be makes 4 times as much as JV???? Surely not.

 

[dennisdy]

For those of you who are without hope for the competitive gentleman known as Sepp Kuss, there is hope! Jumbo's motto is "sammenwinnen", that's "winning together" for those whose Dutch is weak. They won't reject their motto and go cutthroat, will they!? Sepp wins!!

 

[Valv.Piti]

Looks like another Dane might need a vacation soon from this forum

 

[Berniece]

And he needs to do and say what exactly?
He can't go publicly against them, cause it would pissed his bosses, and he isn't such big factor in the team.

Internally he should open his mouth and say he deserves this, that he needs this. They will never find a domestique as good as him. Everyone keeps saying that it doesn’t matter who wins as long as it’s someone from the team. The public, the peloton wants Kuss to win. What’s the problem then? Only the ego from Vingegaard and Roglic

 

[Gargamel35]

You are forgetting the bosses. I doubt Jonas or Primož would act on their own if they were told not to. JV bosses should tell them all they are riding for Sepp now, period. Both Jonas and Primož proved they could win it. They got stage wins. Everybody knows they are better then Sepp head to head. But Sepp is in red, he proved he can hang in there, he deserved it. So JV bosses should lay down the law. But looks like they didn't, because THEY would prefer Jonas in red.

 

[tobydawq]

You are forgetting the bosses. I doubt Jonas or Primož would act on their own if they were told not to. JV bosses should tell them all they are riding for Sepp now, period. Both Jonas and Primož proved they could win it. They got stage wins. Everybody knows they are better then Sepp head to head. But Sepp is in red, he proved he can hang in there, he deserved it. So JV bosses should lay down the law. But looks like they didn't, because THEY would prefer Jonas in red.

Why should they?