Teams & Riders Sepp Kuss is the next Sepp Kuss thread

[Rackham]

Kuss is an amazing climber but will always struggle in stages like today, especially if wet. He's not a racer.

And there's nothing miraculous in Roglic limiting his losses.

Only George Bennett & Roglic "survived" among the Jumbo guys today after the final descent. That tells me what happened was way, way more interesting than Sepp Kuss merely showing limitations on this sort of wet stage.

If Kuss had blown up, so be it. But the entire Jumbo team - except two - were also dead. Very strange. It looked like Roglic had to dig pretty deep to bridge a gap & then paid for it on the climb.

 

[tobydawq]

It was a very odd final part of the stage. I probably need to watch it again tomorrow if I want to try to understand this Vuelta. Just when I thought I could have a rest day...

 

[SafeBet]

Only George Bennett & Roglic "survived" among the Jumbo guys today after the final descent. That tells me what happened was way, way more interesting than Sepp Kuss merely showing limitations on this sort of wet stage.

If Kuss had blown up, so be it. But the entire Jumbo team - except two - were also dead. Very strange. It looked like Roglic had to dig pretty deep to bridge a gap & then paid for it on the climb.

Who are the other Jumbo riders you would expect to survive such a stage? Dumoulin is in terrible shape, Gesink is another one of those riders who will often suffer in such stages and the others are just flat domestiques. They worked to close the gap and when Roglic made the jump it was game over.

A ton of riders finished 10 minutes down or more. It was a tough tough stage, not just for the Jumbo riders.

 

[Koronin]

It appeared there were splits on the decent before Formigal, but with everyone in rain jackets and cameras not being able to figure out who anyone was it made it hard to have any idea who was where and where JV lost time. However it sounds like something to do with putting on rain jackets or zipping up rain jackets or something along those lines.

 

[SafeBet]

Ok this is what happened just watching the available broadcast.
Amador drills the descent with Carapaz on his wheel. Jumbo disappears from the front (probably because of Roglic jacket problem). There are several splits but at the end of the descent some regrouping occurs. It doesn't take long for the other teams to realize Roglic is not there, hence an ISN rider starts pulling and a couple km later Movistar takes over.

There's another group behind pulled by a Jumbo rider, there a few heli shots of that group. The Jumbo rider pulling looks most likely to be Gesink (or Dumoulin), not Kuss. In that group you can see another Jumbo rider (Bennett) and Roglic. I don't think Kuss was in that group after the descent, so he was probably further behind. When the Jumbo rider stops pulling you can see a team with red jackets pulling (possibly Lotto?) and then one of them trioes to make a jump. Roglic and Bennett follow him, then bridge.

 

[RedheadDane]

and the others are just flat domestiques.

Vingegaard is a climber. Though, he might have been rather flat after yesterday.

 

[SafeBet]

Vingegaard is a climber. Though, he might have been rather flat after yesterday.

Ok.
Can we call him a climber on flat domestique duties for this race?

 

[roniek]

There's another group behind pulled by a Jumbo rider, there a few heli shots of that group. The Jumbo rider pulling looks most likely to be Gesink (or Dumoulin), not Kuss. In that group you can see another Jumbo rider (Bennett) and Roglic. I don't think Kuss was in that group after the descent, so he was probably further behind. When the Jumbo rider stops pulling you can see a team with red jackets pulling (possibly Lotto?) and then one of them trioes to make a jump. Roglic and Bennett follow him, then bridge.

I'm pretty sure Kuss was in that group. With 27k to go you can see 3 Jumbo riders in peleton (there's no Roglic). Around 24k to go there are 3 Jumbo riders chasing with Roglic and one in peloton. I think it's Bennett, he grabs a bottle with 23,9 to go and one km later he drops to help Roglic.

 

[Bolder]

^^This is like the Zapruder film!

I still find it hard to believe that neither Kuss, nor Gesink, nor even Dumoulin could have made it back to the main group with riders like Gaudu, especially how they looked in the first 4 stages. Especially I see this as a minor fail for Kuss. He barely looked to be breathing hard (yeah, I know it's a meme...) throughout most of the Tour and the start of the Vuelta. Now he's dropped on a medium mountain stage?

 

[Red Rick]

Ok this is what happened just watching the available broadcast.
Amador drills the descent with Carapaz on his wheel. Jumbo disappears from the front (probably because of Roglic jacket problem). There are several splits but at the end of the descent some regrouping occurs. It doesn't take long for the other teams to realize Roglic is not there, hence an ISN rider starts pulling and a couple km later Movistar takes over.

There's another group behind pulled by a Jumbo rider, there a few heli shots of that group. The Jumbo rider pulling looks most likely to be Gesink (or Dumoulin), not Kuss. In that group you can see another Jumbo rider (Bennett) and Roglic. I don't think Kuss was in that group after the descent, so he was probably further behind. When the Jumbo rider stops pulling you can see a team with red jackets pulling (possibly Lotto?) and then one of them trioes to make a jump. Roglic and Bennett follow him, then bridge.

How far were they behind?

 

[SafeBet]

I'm pretty sure Kuss was in that group. With 27k to go you can see 3 Jumbo riders in peleton (there's no Roglic). Around 24k to go there are 3 Jumbo riders chasing with Roglic and one in peloton. I think it's Bennett, he grabs a bottle with 23,9 to go and one km later he drops to help Roglic.

Interesting. I'll rewatch it later. To me it seemed there were never 4 Jumbos in that group but admittedly pictures were never particularly clear.

How far were they behind?

Impossible to tell. TV production should have adviced the heli to give us a broader view, but never did.
Perahps I'll try to take some reference point and estimate the gap later.

 

[roniek]

Interesting. I'll rewatch it later. To me it seemed there were never 4 Jumbos in that group but admittedly pictures were never particularly clear.

2 Jumbos in front of the group, Roglic behind someone in red jacket and one more Jumbo behind him - screenshot
Few seconds after that there's one Jumbo rider (Bennett probably) taking a bottle in peloton with 23,9 to go.

 

[woodburn]

^^This is like the Zapruder film!

I still find it hard to believe that neither Kuss, nor Gesink, nor even Dumoulin could have made it back to the main group with riders like Gaudu, especially how they looked in the first 4 stages. Especially I see this as a minor fail for Kuss. He barely looked to be breathing hard (yeah, I know it's a meme...) throughout most of the Tour and the start of the Vuelta. Now he's dropped on a medium mountain stage?

It happens based on race circumstances (where he may have had to pull and empty tank early due to chasing) or weather.

Remember Schleck cracked on medium climb during bad weather day before descent into Gap. Two days later he won on the the Galibier.

 

[search]

I'm pretty sure Kuss was in that group. With 27k to go you can see 3 Jumbo riders in peleton (there's no Roglic). Around 24k to go there are 3 Jumbo riders chasing with Roglic and one in peloton. I think it's Bennett, he grabs a bottle with 23,9 to go and one km later he drops to help Roglic.

you can get an idea by comparing his Strava file to Großschartner's, for example. According to that, Kuss lost around ~20s on the Cotefablo descent, (almost?) made it back on the false flat, but then exploded over the Búbal. So he started the Formigal ascent (final 14k) around 1:20 behind the peloton.

 

[johnymax]

Kuss about stage 6:

Q&A: Sepp Kuss on Vuelta a España — ‘We want to win the race with Roglič’

Sepp Kuss describes how struggles with rain jackets cost him 10 minutes and the team the leader's jersey in Sunday's stage at the Vuelta a España.

www.velonews.com

 

[Luthor]

Kuss about stage 6:

Q&A: Sepp Kuss on Vuelta a España — ‘We want to win the race with Roglič’

Sepp Kuss describes how struggles with rain jackets cost him 10 minutes and the team the leader's jersey in Sunday's stage at the Vuelta a España.

www.velonews.com

This shows he needs to improve his engine to become a GC contender.
Also needed for ITT where he needs improvement. TJV should send him to one-week races to race for himself and see how he goes.

 

[Scarponi]

After watching him free wheel on the Angrilu waiting for Roglic I am convinced the only climb left that can tame him is that 2014 Tirreno climb Muro di Guardiagrele that Contador had to ride up sideways

 

[Red Rick]

Took until the final 2km for Kuss to start saving Roglic some watts.

 

[Bolder]

This shows he needs to improve his engine to become a GC contender.
Also needed for ITT where he needs improvement. TJV should send him to one-week races to race for himself and see how he goes.

Agree on all points. Next year, I'd like to see him try to win a few races outright.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

After watching him free wheel on the Angrilu waiting for Roglic I am convinced the only climb left that can tame him is that 2014 Tirreno climb Muro di Guardiagrele that Contador had to ride up sideways

Montevergine di Mercogliano

 

[BlueRoads]

I don't see any climb taming him, especially not if it's steep. For that time trials exist.

 

[RedheadDane]

After watching him free wheel on the Angrilu waiting for Roglic I am convinced the only climb left that can tame him is that 2014 Tirreno climb Muro di Guardiagrele that Contador had to ride up sideways

Riding sideways doesn't exactly sound easier!

 

[spalco]

Kuss is one of the most ridiculous riders I've ever seen, keeping him on a leash the way Jumbots do is almost criminal.

 

[TomLPC]

He's either got the best pain face I've ever seen, better than Nairo even, or this guy is completely taking the piss .

Perhaps he is being overestimated a little as he gets to rest on some stages, but the guy was breathing through his nose looking over his shoulder the entire last 5k

 

[Red Rick]

Kuss is one of the most ridiculous riders I've ever seen, keeping him on a leash the way Jumbots do is almost criminal.

He got a chance this Vuelta, then lost 10 minutes on Formigal. Probably has quite a lot to learn to be a GT rider, otherwise I honestly wouldn't mind if he basically takes Kruijswijks place.

That said, we don't get to see how good his climbing really is cause every time Roglic goes himself he just sits up. He might be one of the best in the world at a very narrow skillset, which isn't gonna be enough to win a Grand Tour.