Sergio Henao

[the sceptic]

I think there is a lot of validity to this possibility. Might not be Hct at all.

the altitude stuff could be a smokescreen of course.

When Brailsford says "test introduced this winter", maybe he is talking about steroids and the passport?

And when he says "we need to understand these readings better" he means "we need our doctors to figure out how to beat this"

All speculation of course.. but what can you do when there is so little information to work with.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

lol at searching for something on google and finding something else that blows your mind. ahem.

anyway.

@vayerism We want clarity too. And we do not use Vo2 max. Never have. I am leaving this dialogue. Thanks again.

https://twitter.com/franmillar/status/446699762017107969

But now we’re doing lab testing periodically every six weeks and we do a threshold test that lasts about an hour. It ramps up and they take lactate levels, we’re doing acclimatisation work, which I didn’t do last year. So everything is tested and recorded so we know exactly where I am. We did one recently and my lactate levels were ridiculously low for a given power, which was 475 watts, and that is evidence. We’ve got this data to back it up so you go out into the field feeling confident. So the doubts aren’t there. I’ve never done that in the past.

When Tim came to me he said: “We need some data on you. When did you last lab test?” I’d not done a lab test. I’d never done a Vo2 Max test. Tim’s compiled all this data. We’re on Training Peaks so every ride I do, everything is monitored. The impact that’s had on me is important.

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/wiggins-and-sky-a-different-route-to-the-tour/

It's clearly open to interpretation, but Kerrison asks for data, and the VO2max test is mentioned. Then he finishes by saying Kerrison compiled all this data. My take is he did a VO2 max test.

If it was only a threshold test, "all this data" would seem overly descriptive for one test value.

A full physiological workup would include a VO2 max test, as well as a ramp test as described above ("threshold test").

So much for team BC being scientific - Wiggo says he had never done a lab test, nor a VO2 max test.

 

[thehog]

My theory - she can't

Something in the tests have looked very odd to WADA. Sky have reviewed the tests and agreed it looks odd. Sky approach the UCI who don't want to get involved other than being supportive of the decision to bench Henao

They need to get to the bottom of how Henao's ethnicity has effected the data. In the meantime they can't have Sky going public with the nature of the test and the results as it could undermine their new test.

Well there you go. Transparency would mean there shouldn't be an issue in releasing the details. If Heaneo had gone rogue then his fault and that will be exposed. So why hide the details?

What did the WADA show up that can't be talked about? Of it's not an infraction what is it?

 

[DirtyWorks]

My theory - she can't

Something in the tests have looked very odd to WADA. Sky have reviewed the tests and agreed it looks odd. Sky approach the UCI who don't want to get involved other than being supportive of the decision to bench Henao

I think it is safe to say there is some kind of suspicious score. The UCI is indifferent to the test results. Which should tell you all you need to know how nothing on the anti-doping front has changed at the UCI.

They need to get to the bottom of how Henao's ethnicity has effected the data.

Maybe it really is an unexpected test issue. Somehow I doubt it. But, I'm a pessimist in these matters. Sceptic's post just above sums it up nicely.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Is this not what most people would want?

How about some consistency? UCI seemingly not involved and not interested in an anti-doping matter.... This is something the UCI claims to be VERY committed to enforcing. Depending on the athlete, they are. Yet now?

 

[Beech Mtn]

lol at searching for something on google and finding something else that blows your mind. ahem.

anyway.





It's clearly open to interpretation, but Kerrison asks for data, and the VO2max test is mentioned. Then he finishes by saying Kerrison compiled all this data. My take is he did a VO2 max test.

If it was only a threshold test, "all this data" would seem overly descriptive for one test value.

A full physiological workup would include a VO2 max test, as well as a ramp test as described above ("threshold test").

So much for team BC being scientific - Wiggo says he had never done a lab test, nor a VO2 max test.

I would've thought Wiggo would've done a VO2 max test for Garmin. Could've sworn JV looks at such things when making hiring decisions. Might be a good question for JV.

(But your post and my response both should maybe be moved over to the regular Sky thread if this one is supposed to be limited to Henao??)

 

[Beech Mtn]

the altitude stuff could be a smokescreen of course.

When Brailsford says "test introduced this winter", maybe he is talking about steroids and the passport?

And when he says "we need to understand these readings better" he means "we need our doctors to figure out how to beat this"

All speculation of course.. but what can you do when there is so little information to work with.

Now that would sound a lot like Lance's Tour de Suisse "suspicious" EPO tests and the resulting meeting arranged by UCI for Johan/LA to meet with Saugy to have the new test explained to them. (IF that's what is happening.)

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Here's the (2003) 50% Hct exemption process: http://oldsite.uci.ch/english/health_sante/docs_2003/UCI_certificate_2003.pdf

 

[thehog]

Now that would sound a lot like Lance's Tour de Suisse "suspicious" EPO tests and the resulting meeting arranged by UCI for Johan/LA to meet with Saugy to have the new test explained to them. (IF that's what is happening.)

Sky did say they were commissioning a (vajiram) report so that's a Lance monopoly cleansweep!

 

[martinvickers]

Well there you go. Transparency would mean there shouldn't be an issue in releasing the details. If Heaneo had gone rogue then his fault and that will be exposed. So why hide the details?

What did the WADA show up that can't be talked about? Of it's not an infraction what is it?

There are, to my mind, two inexplicables here.

1. Why did Henao's agent leak potentially damaging info on his own client to a newspaper.
2. Why was UCI so happy and quick to back up Sky's story and generally take a hands off approach, right when it's under the most scrutiny over it's relations with former teams (USPS).

Everything else about the story is can be explained relatively easily, either innocently, or guilty as hell. But to me, these two facts seem the core - because they make no sense one way or the other.

 

[thehog]

There are, to my mind, two inexplicables here.

1. Why did Henao's agent leak potentially damaging info on his own client to a newspaper.
2. Why was UCI so happy and quick to back up Sky's story and generally take a hands off approach, right when it's under the most scrutiny over it's relations with former teams (USPS).

Everything else about the story is can be explained relatively easily, either innocently, or guilty as hell. But to me, these two facts seem the core - because they make no sense one way or the other.

I tend to agree. As regular tests are positive or negative. If not positive you don't discuss the nuances of the "in-between".

So it had to be passport which I feel there hasn't been the next test which would triangulate the problem test.

Does that make sense? ie Sky have averted a passport issue by jumping in after baseline between suspect test and the test which would have been back to baseline.

As with passport you see the results. So you get a "spike" you don't want the next test as that's what triggers the software as distinct from the spike itself.

JTL was caught when his baseline returned not at the time of his suspect test.

That's the only reason why I can think the UCI are shrugging their shoulders at the whole thing. They can't be involved until a case is opened.

 

[gospina]

There are, to my mind, two inexplicables here.

1. Why did Henao's agent leak potentially damaging info on his own client to a newspaper.
2. Why was UCI so happy and quick to back up Sky's story and generally take a hands off approach, right when it's under the most scrutiny over it's relations with former teams (USPS).

Everything else about the story is can be explained relatively easily, either innocently, or guilty as hell. But to me, these two facts seem the core - because they make no sense one way or the other.

1. Henao was 'benched' for a bit and people kept on asking why he isn't racing. Since he isn't suspended, there was a theory that the agent leaked it on purpose to try to force Sky to race him, with the thought that he didn't fail any UCI tests. Next step was to sue Sky to let him race, like Sanchez last year. It backfired. Keep in mind that Henao is young, that he was training for the classics, that he is no longer a leader (maybe at Vuelta, but most likely not) so his whole season is based on the classics, for personal glory, at least. To do a 'study' when he can be making money and gaining UCI points is not a benefit to his possible compensation. The agent knows this, his job is to get his clients to make money and to be recognized and become more valuable, remember.

2. This one is easy and not sure why people keep on thinking there is a conspiration (I like that word) here. Sky (not clear either by themselves or with guidance from WADA) was the one that saw the scores and got concerned. UCI did not get concerned. They didn't see an issue. Or they weren't UCI tests, maybe just Sky internal. They can ONLY say they support the team. No other thing to say...there is no cycling union, so they can't say 'race the guy unless he fails a test'. They can't say 'we don't support teams doing their own internal testing'. They can only say 'we support teams doing their own investigations & research to possible offenses'.

Now my own conspiration thoughts: Henao trained with his cousin, trained with Uran, lived with Nairo, lived with Nairo's brother, lived with Uran for a bit. He was seeing training with Acevedo in Colombia, who also happened to be there with Ben King... Ben King came in third on the queen stage of Tirreno, even attacking Contador on the final climb. Being Colombian, I know how many guys are coming out of nowhere. Now more people are going to Colombia to train, including Nairo bringing some spaniards with him after Catalunya. Can this mean now everyone is afraid of altitude training? can this mean that there is a doping ring in Colombia, with a new set of drugs that no one can test? I doubt all this. I think altitude does make a huge difference, from my own personal experience playing soccer. When I came to the US, I ran circles around everyone, quickly becoming a midfielder. When I went back to Colombia two years later, I could barely run.
This, or aguapanela, arepas, empanadas, bandeja paisas, chocorramos & aguardiente combined give you an edge. They did for Betancur

 

[HSNHSN]

Then why doesn't she tell when the test was and end the speculation. Just say what it is.

Isn't it far more fun to just say no to whatever wrong suggestion is being made?

 

[thehog]

Isn't it far more fun to just say no to whatever wrong suggestion is being made?

It is. The power! and then to have the ability to call a bunch of nom de plume twitter users 'aggressors'!

 

[hfer07]

1. Henao was 'benched' for a bit and people kept on asking why he isn't racing. Since he isn't suspended, there was a theory that the agent leaked it on purpose to try to force Sky to race him, with the thought that he didn't fail any UCI tests. Next step was to sue Sky to let him race, like Sanchez last year. It backfired. Keep in mind that Henao is young, that he was training for the classics, that he is no longer a leader (maybe at Vuelta, but most likely not) so his whole season is based on the classics, for personal glory, at least. To do a 'study' when he can be making money and gaining UCI points is not a benefit to his possible compensation. The agent knows this, his job is to get his clients to make money and to be recognized and become more valuable, remember.

2. This one is easy and not sure why people keep on thinking there is a conspiration (I like that word) here. Sky (not clear either by themselves or with guidance from WADA) was the one that saw the scores and got concerned. UCI did not get concerned. They didn't see an issue. Or they weren't UCI tests, maybe just Sky internal. They can ONLY say they support the team. No other thing to say...there is no cycling union, so they can't say 'race the guy unless he fails a test'. They can't say 'we don't support teams doing their own internal testing'. They can only say 'we support teams doing their own investigations & research to possible offenses'.

Now my own conspiration thoughts: Henao trained with his cousin, trained with Uran, lived with Nairo, lived with Nairo's brother, lived with Uran for a bit. He was seeing training with Acevedo in Colombia, who also happened to be there with Ben King... Ben King came in third on the queen stage of Tirreno, even attacking Contador on the final climb. Being Colombian, I know how many guys are coming out of nowhere. Now more people are going to Colombia to train, including Nairo bringing some spaniards with him after Catalunya. Can this mean now everyone is afraid of altitude training? can this mean that there is a doping ring in Colombia, with a new set of drugs that no one can test? I doubt all this. I think altitude does make a huge difference, from my own personal experience playing soccer. When I came to the US, I ran circles around everyone, quickly becoming a midfielder. When I went back to Colombia two years later, I could barely run.
This, or aguapanela, arepas, empanadas, bandeja paisas, chocorramos & aguardiente combined give you an edge. They did for Betancur

On the first bold part- It makes sense from Sergio's & his agent's POV to take that approach if there is no positive test preventing him from racing--which leads me to believe Sergio isn't "comfortable" with SKY all and might be an indication of an internal conflict happening between them.

On the 2nd bold part- Its not that simple- the "conspiracy" is about the "time gap" between the "test with anomalies" and the official PR of it, along with the very nature of that "test" and how UCI seems "accomplice" on SKY's approach to bench him- Its simply unclear.

apart from that-your "conspiracy" theory on how Colombia is nowadays becoming a "destination" for pros to train-Id give you that our country enjoys the perks of good weather all year round & lots of places at altitude to train properly..........but so TENERIFE.......

bottom line here- Sergio better start preparing to be dropped by SKY soon after the so called "study" ends & have his agent start making calls.....

 

[Morbius]

My suspicion about the UCI's comment is that they are in the phase where they have seen an anomoly and have requested an explanation. During this phase they make no public announcement, so they are unable to say anything more than they have done, which is they support the team in benching the rider. Alternatively (as someone suggested earlier) the threshold for Sky is tighter than that for UCI, so Sky have pre-empted a UCI investigation. Either way the UCI cannot say more than they have.

 

[Morbius]

JTL was caught when his baseline returned not at the time of his suspect test.

Did JTL have a passport baseline before his spike at the Worlds? I thought that the Worlds was his first test so he was investigated after his levels changed in one direction.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I thought that the Worlds was his first test so he was investigated after his levels changed in one direction.

I am not sure which is more surprising. That it was his first test or that he was in a boy band..?

 

[EnacheV]

I am not sure which is more surprising. That it was his first test or that he was in a boy band..?

nice one

imo JTL and Henao situations have nothing in common, first was caught by passport because he doped at Endura and stopped at Sky, the 2nd (Henao) is just a victim of Sky going over zealous.

In fact, i think Henao can blame JTL for the **** is in right now.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

He'd do better to blame the many generations of lying and cheating cyclists that preceded him

 

[ralphbert]

So did he fail the"look them in the eye test" or did he test positive for someone else's pillow? Maybe he drank some Apple flavored water by mistake? There are so many ways to trip up at uk postal.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

And his ProTour team, that brags about how they focus on detail, does not know about it?

The whole thing is just so odd. Either he has a legit biological issue or he has been doping since he was a teenager......either way Sky was not aware? How could they not know? If he has a biological issue then his sea level Hct is 47+. How is it Sky would not know this?

Odd, just odd.

he has definitley not been doping since a teenager. he was in colobmia es passion. one of few colombian teams that are 100% clean and he was part of uci bio passport there too. but it seems any form of reason is lost on you anyway and it's either black or white

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

My theory - she can't

Something in the tests have looked very odd to WADA. Sky have reviewed the tests and agreed it looks odd. Sky approach the UCI who don't want to get involved other than being supportive of the decision to bench Henao

They need to get to the bottom of how Henao's ethnicity has effected the data. In the meantime they can't have Sky going public with the nature of the test and the results as it could undermine their new test.

they are supportive of testing him and investigating him. not about benching him. btu benching happens in all layers of society if a person gets ivnestigated. like a teacher getting investigated after a child claims the teacher abused him/her

 

[RobbieCanuck]

There are, to my mind, two inexplicables here.

1. Why did Henao's agent leak potentially damaging info on his own client to a newspaper..

My hunch is that La Gazzetta Della Sport noticed Henoa wasn't racing and went to the agent for an explanation. You are right, why would an agent leak damaging information? I suspect the agent probably simply confirmed why Henao was not racing and then LGDS went to Sky who then realized they had to get something out in the public domain. All speculation of course, but logical.

The story in the Guardian (19th) says the following,

"The investigation into Henao was made public on Wednesday morning after La Gazzetta dello Sport reported the story through Henao's agent ..."

Hard to know what "through Henao's agent" means. Confirmation or a leak by the agent.

 

[MartinGT]

Regarding the UCI, what about this.

The UCI are approached by Sky saying they have seen some dodgy values. The UCI back off, but not in a way of "we are not interested" but in a way of "We need to be impartial, we shall request the information from the relevant authorities"

Maybe? Just trying to put another angle on it?