Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach

[Electress]

I could see it being Sutton, I must admit. Though I do note the almost total lack of interest being taken in the man who actually filled the jiffy bag.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

I could see it being Sutton, I must admit. Though I do note the almost total lack of interest being taken in the man who actually filled the jiffy bag.

Could see what being Sutton? The Jiffy bag story? The Varnish report leak? The Phelps report leak? The lot?

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Re: Re:

I could see it being Sutton, I must admit. Though I do note the almost total lack of interest being taken in the man who actually filled the jiffy bag.

Could see what being Sutton? The Jiffy bag story? The Varnish report leak? The Phelps report leak? The lot?

British Cycling is a fairly large organization filled with bullies that played favourites amongst the riders. I bet there are dozens of possible scenarios here. It feels like everyone is hyper-focused on only four or five people.

John Swanson

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

I could see it being Sutton, I must admit. Though I do note the almost total lack of interest being taken in the man who actually filled the jiffy bag.

Could see what being Sutton? The Jiffy bag story? The Varnish report leak? The Phelps report leak? The lot?

Jiffy bag, particularly, since someone purports to know what was in it. But it's all just speculation. I would have thought that a whole load of names are in the hat.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

I could see it being Sutton, I must admit. Though I do note the almost total lack of interest being taken in the man who actually filled the jiffy bag.

Could see what being Sutton? The Jiffy bag story? The Varnish report leak? The Phelps report leak? The lot?

Jiffy bag, particularly, since someone purports to know what was in it. But it's all just speculation. I would have thought that a whole load of names are in the hat.

Well the funny thing about that, then, is that - according to the Daily Mail's sources - it's the Jiffy bag story that nixed his return.

For the Jiffy bag story, I imagine Cope will have told several people about it over time: it's the sort of thing he might brag about. (I disagree that people knew what was in it - there is a link being made between it and the TUE and an educated guess as to its contents, nothing more.) So yes, there's a lot of faces in the frame for that story.

 

[thehog]

No Sutton is farked, unemployable. Vinniecomb went down to China and came back with the Chinese police after him. No one is going there or any other Asian county. Trust me. Olympic track programs are government funded, no government is going to pay Karmarize Sutton a salary.

He was going for a job with the French Federation which he has now lost. Would have been inferring to Sutton mash up the French language.

"You stupid frogs, ya not eating a brioche for breakfast. Brad would eat nails and f%#ing kenlog. Now get training, ya not eating today!"

 

[fmk_RoI]

He was going for a job with the French Federation which he has now lost.

So he's been turned down for two jobs now, Cycling Australia and France? Where was the French one reported, didn't see the coverage?

 

[Robert21]

King also reiterated her comments from last year that she had not endured any sexism, saying that former technical director Shane Sutton – who was accused by Jess Varnish of sexist remarks – was tough on both men and women.

"For me personally, I never experienced any sexism," explained King. "With the likes of Shane Sutton, for me, my opinion was that he was a hard taskmaster, but he was a hard taskmaster for both men and women. While I was there, I got all the support that I needed to become the best bike rider that I could be."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/king-i-was-never-fearful-at-british-cycling/

 

[budegan]

Re:

King also reiterated her comments from last year that she had not endured any sexism, saying that former technical director Shane Sutton – who was accused by Jess Varnish of sexist remarks – was tough on both men and women.

"For me personally, I never experienced any sexism," explained King. "With the likes of Shane Sutton, for me, my opinion was that he was a hard taskmaster, but he was a hard taskmaster for both men and women. While I was there, I got all the support that I needed to become the best bike rider that I could be."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/king-i-was-never-fearful-at-british-cycling/

Dani King business partner of SKY RIDER Luke Rowe and fiancee of his brother.

Yeah she's inclined to drop a phlegmy one in the broth

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

Dani King business partner of SKY RIDER Luke Rowe and fiancee of his brother.

Yeah she's inclined to drop a phlegmy one in the broth

Ah, I see. When it comes to allegations of 'sexism', the only people one should believe are those with an agenda to promote, an axe to grind, a bug up their ass or a chip on their shoulder!

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Dani King business partner of SKY RIDER Luke Rowe and fiancee of his brother.

Yeah she's inclined to drop a phlegmy one in the broth

Ah, I see. When it comes to allegations of 'sexism', the only people one should believe are those with an agenda to promote, an axe to grind, a bug up their *** or a chip on their shoulder!

Do you not think her connections are not worth pointing out when valuing her opinion?

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

Do you not think her connections are not worth pointing out when valuing her opinion?

They are no more and no less worth pointing out than the fact that people like Cooke and Varnish might well have an agenda to push, or a personal grudge to settle, with their opinions also being measured in the light of that possibility.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Do you not think her connections are not worth pointing out when valuing her opinion?

They are no more and no less worth pointing out than the fact that people like Cooke and Varnish might well have an agenda to push, or a personal grudge to settle, with their opinions also being measured in the light of that possibility.

Spot on with your post - I am interested in how King discussed BC which seems to have avoided scrutiny, unlike Sky.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

Do you not think her connections are not worth pointing out when valuing her opinion?

They are no more and no less worth pointing out than the fact that people like Cooke and Varnish might well have an agenda to push, or a personal grudge to settle, with their opinions also being measured in the light of that possibility.

Why would Cooke have an axe to grind? One of the greatest women cyclists ever. For what reason would she want to get involved? What benefit for her/

King on the other hand has way more to lose. They can all be brought into the discussion but look at the realities.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Dani King business partner of SKY RIDER Luke Rowe and fiancee of his brother.

Yeah she's inclined to drop a phlegmy one in the broth

Ah, I see. When it comes to allegations of 'sexism', the only people one should believe are those with an agenda to promote, an axe to grind, a bug up their *** or a chip on their shoulder!

Of course. What conflict of interest?

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Do you not think her connections are not worth pointing out when valuing her opinion?

They are no more and no less worth pointing out than the fact that people like Cooke and Varnish might well have an agenda to push, or a personal grudge to settle, with their opinions also being measured in the light of that possibility.

What axe does a retired World, Olympic, 2 x World Cup, Giro and 10 x national champion have to grind? Then there's Pooley backing her up word for word. I suppose you're blaming this entire episode on Pooley not taking credit for the Jiffy bag?

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Do you not think her connections are not worth pointing out when valuing her opinion?

They are no more and no less worth pointing out than the fact that people like Cooke and Varnish might well have an agenda to push, or a personal grudge to settle, with their opinions also being measured in the light of that possibility.

What axe does a retired World, Olympic, 2 x World Cup, Giro and 10 x national champion have to grind? Then there's Pooley backing her up word for word. I suppose you're blaming this entire episode on Pooley not taking credit for the Jiffy bag?

Bingo!

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

What axe does a retired World, Olympic, 2 x World Cup, Giro and 10 x national champion have to grind? Then there's Pooley backing her up word for word. I suppose you're blaming this entire episode on Pooley not taking credit for the Jiffy bag?

You seriously can't see it? For reals? (Being a fan of Cooke, agreeing with what Cooke says, that should not stop anyone from seeing that she has - like most of us of many things - an agenda, an axe to grind, a score to settle.)

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

What axe does a retired World, Olympic, 2 x World Cup, Giro and 10 x national champion have to grind? Then there's Pooley backing her up word for word. I suppose you're blaming this entire episode on Pooley not taking credit for the Jiffy bag?

You seriously can't see it? For reals? (Being a fan of Cooke, agreeing with what Cooke says, that should not stop anyone from seeing that she has - like most of us of many things - an agenda, an axe to grind, a score to settle.)

Maybe she's just telling it like it was? Isn't that kinda normal? For someone to tell the truth?

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

Maybe she's just telling it like it was? Isn't that kinda normal? For someone to tell the truth?

One could say much the same of Dani King, Becky James, Jo Rowsell, Katy Marchant and Rochelle Gilmore all of whom have come out in defence of Sutton, not to mention all the male riders who also said that whilst he was not exactly 'PC' and a hard taskmaster, he was a great coach dedicated to getting the best from all the riders under his charge, both male and female.

 

[Dan2016]

Maybe she's just telling it like it was? Isn't that kinda normal? For someone to tell the truth?

One could say much the same of Dani King, Becky James, Jo Rowsell, Katy Marchant and Rochelle Gilmore all of whom have come out in defence of Sutton, not to mention all the male riders who also said that whilst he was not exactly 'PC' and a hard taskmaster, he was a great coach dedicated to getting the best from all the riders under his charge, both male and female.

Is there some confusion here around the nature of bullying and sexism?

They don't exist as an all or nothing binary, it's not bully everyone or bully no-one. This isn't the way it happens in the real world, indeed it's not remotely uncommon for bullies to only bully a few people in a group and treat many others very well. This is the toxic dynamic they create. So the number of people who come out in support of Sutton is entirely irrelevant and the riders accusations of bullying stand on their own merits.

This sort of scenario plays out in domestic/relationship abuse cases all the time. The abuser behaves like a great person to everyone other than the person they are abusing and this makes it incredibly difficult for the abused to speak out as their claims will not seem credible. Indeed many people never believe them because the experience of the majority contrasts so starkly with the experience of the abused minority. The people who have been treated well, their experiences are real, they are not lying, there is no need to imagine any agendas, but their experience is irrelevant to that of the abused (I'm talking about emotional abuse here, physical abuse is a lot more obvious of course).

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Maybe she's just telling it like it was? Isn't that kinda normal? For someone to tell the truth?

One could say much the same of Dani King, Becky James, Jo Rowsell, Katy Marchant and Rochelle Gilmore all of whom have come out in defence of Sutton, not to mention all the male riders who also said that whilst he was not exactly 'PC' and a hard taskmaster, he was a great coach dedicated to getting the best from all the riders under his charge, both male and female.

What a stupid post, as with any bullying and abuse, it is selective. The perpetrator picks out the victims and seeks retribution until he breaks them.

This is like saying a child abuser abuses all children, no, select, groom and abuse.

Sutton is no different in his given context hence why is was forced out and the report stated he sought to "kill off"
Varnish.

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

as with any bullying and abuse, it is selective. The perpetrator picks out the victims and seeks retribution until he breaks them. This is like saying a child abuser abuses all children, no, select, groom and abuse.

Or, it could all be a matter of perception. For example, if you are particularly 'sensitive', have been brought up to believe that 'sexism' is rife everywhere you look, lack self confidence and so on, you might well react badly to an innocent comment that no one else would dwell on for a moment.

I think that your comment comparing Sutton to a child abuser, despite there being no independent evidence showing anything more than he was a 'hard task master' and failed to be sufficiently 'politically correct', well illustrates the mindset that is operating here.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Maybe she's just telling it like it was? Isn't that kinda normal? For someone to tell the truth?

One could say much the same of Dani King, Becky James, Jo Rowsell, Katy Marchant and Rochelle Gilmore all of whom have come out in defence of Sutton, not to mention all the male riders who also said that whilst he was not exactly 'PC' and a hard taskmaster, he was a great coach dedicated to getting the best from all the riders under his charge, both male and female.

Not exactly PC = Bullying and sexist.

The Bully doesn't pick on everybody.

Sutton no longer works for BC. I think that tells us everything.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

as with any bullying and abuse, it is selective. The perpetrator picks out the victims and seeks retribution until he breaks them. This is like saying a child abuser abuses all children, no, select, groom and abuse.

Or, it could all be a matter of perception. For example, if you are particularly 'sensitive', have been brought up to believe that 'sexism' is rife everywhere you look, lack self confidence and so on, you might well react badly to an innocent comment that no one else would dwell on for a moment.

I think that your comment comparing Sutton to a child abuser, despite there being no independent evidence showing anything more than he was a 'hard task master' and failed to be sufficiently 'politically correct', well illustrates the mindset that is operating here.

Alas not, that was your correlation. I used the term "given context"; which demonstrates you're looking for anyway to given Sutton a pass.

As it stands Sutton has been booted out never to work in cycling again and Varnish is a hero to many for standing up for what is right. She is also likely to sue British Cycling to recover her loses.

Those are the facts rather than the "alternative facts" world you live in