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Should (or can) Contador come clean now?

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vrusimov

Jul 8, 2009
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Taxus4a said:
Well, I have read these days in this forum:

If Contador have his "form" he will beat Froome.
If Contador is like in Verbier or Etna he will win the Tour.
...

I think that those days have finished for him. So for me it is a little or naive or ridiculous that kind of statement.

That is like if I say: If Froome doped he will put some minutes from the second.

We have to consider this Tour as the era in wich we are, the situation of Contador after been banned and the SKy policy.

If there is a biopasport that has been progressively introduced and other kind of controls, if most of riders, including Contador, have reduced their performance, it is amazing for me people believe more the best people in the past, than the best people now.

I have always heard inside spanish world cycling, that yes, Contador dopes, but if there werent doping, he would be even better, becouse he is very talented. The same for Valverde.

I have always believe that, I even defended Contador when the judgement of his positive.

But now I have my doubts.. after Lance affair and Pepe Marti ban and the pressure with him after his own ban (and with all the pelotoon), he is one of the best riders of the world, while others leave cycling or reduce his results clearly, he has in these days won the Vuelta, a semiclasicc, and been in the podium with the best current riders in Oman or Tirreno,.. but, that, in fact, it is not that I have always heard: he would be better. He is not better, he is worse in result than before.

Of course I think he had nothing to do with Ulle, Lance, and those people in that strong doping era, but this era doesnt look the better for him as well.

If he dont win the Tour some people will say: he didnt found his better shape...and other did...:rolleyes: well, dont joke.. he could have an excuse, but the most probably thing it is than in equal conditions there are better people for three weeks today, and maybe not only Froome.

I hope he will be strong in the Tour, he is a good contender, a passionate cyclist, a competitive rider that only mind to win. It would be very good for the race, but... IMO, consider Verbier as his normal shape or his normal clean performance, without taking it into question, it is a little bit annoyed and out of reality.

If SKY or Froome are cheaters, we will see in the future, but today the isnt any evidence, and his performance are into more credible values.


So, maybe we could not have the hole conclusion about who is better, Contador or Froome, in this Tour, but it is ridiculous to say that Contador is better becouse Froome cant performance like him in 2009 or other years.

Contador claims always he was clean in Tour 2010. Maybe it is true, it is hard to believe with a positive, but he wanst as strong than other times, and that is no so different as Froome last year IMO
Click to expand...

You always believed that Contador, a man who went up a mountain faster than any cyclist in any Tour de France in history, could actually be BETTER WITHOUT DOPE??? a VAM of about 1864m/hr without being juiced??? A performance in most cases miles better than known dopers like Riis, Pantani, Ullrich and Armstrong?

I won't bother with the pejoratives...:confused:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-2009-contador-climb.html
 
LaFlorecita

LaFlorecita

May 15, 2011
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vrusimov said:
You always believed that Contador, a man who went up a mountain faster than any cyclist in any Tour de France in history, could actually be BETTER WITHOUT DOPE??? a VAM of about 1864m/hr without being juiced??? A performance in most cases miles better than known dopers like Riis, Pantani, Ullrich and Armstrong?

I won't bother with the pejoratives...:confused:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-2009-contador-climb.html
Click to expand...

read again, he actually says Contador was a doper and now that everyone, including himself, is clean he can't win anymore.
 
burning

burning

Feb 29, 2012
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I find it really funny that some people claim Contador did doped in 2011 but suddenly stopped after his ban expired.

This makes no sense at all, either he's clean all the time, or he's doping all the time. I believe that he's more cautious after his ban, or he just passed his peak and will never win anything
 
Taxus4a

Taxus4a

Aug 12, 2012
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vrusimov said:
You always believed that Contador, a man who went up a mountain faster than any cyclist in any Tour de France in history, could actually be BETTER WITHOUT DOPE??? a VAM of about 1864m/hr without being juiced??? A performance in most cases miles better than known dopers like Riis, Pantani, Ullrich and Armstrong?

I won't bother with the pejoratives...:confused:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-2009-contador-climb.html
Click to expand...

No, the performance of Contador in Verbier is not like the Lance in Hautacam or Pantani in Alp Dhuez.

In Verbier there was tail wind.. in the climb and almost all the stage. I dont know if Contador is better that them.. I think so (lance said when he come back, riders now were better than his generation), but I think that he already had another era that de doping free...

And yes, people said that: he is talented and he will win without doping as well... (some said, even better)and I thougt: Maybe they are right... but we talk in therms of results, nor of perfomance.

But, I was wrong before in my post, really I never though that, becouse... how to improve his result?? wining the Tour by 10 minutes? winning Liege?, winning Giro, Tour and Vuelta the same season? wining a flat ITT to Cancellara or Tony Martin?

For me already were incredible his flat ITTs, very close to the best ones, or even winning sometimes...if you see Contador, he is crazy skinny, he has thin legs...he is explosive, electric, with big aceleration, that is good for some kind of ITT, but in a flat one without corners...

And in general, I have always believed that, well, he is good, he will be one of the best in a clean cycling, maybe winning important things, but maybe not so good... and it is what I see now... maybe it is early to confirm that, anyway, but I must talk by now for the most likely thing I see in each moment.

I know people dont see that way, but I am no going to keep my opinion for that.

And I dont believe that for the relation: Saiz, Bruyneel, Riis,...it is similar to Sastre, and I dont see them in the same way.

I said a year ago, I will believe the Contador that come back..and I believe in this.

I said at the begining of this year: he is not going to get more than 5 victories this year, instead of his 12-13 a year.

He got one in January (he had in San Luis several oportunities), and I though, maybe I am wrong...but at the moment it is the only one.
 
burning

burning

Feb 29, 2012
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Taxus4a said:
snipped

I said at the begining of this year: he is not going to get more than 5 victories this year, instead of his 12-13 a year.

He got one in January (he had in San Luis several oportunities), and I though, maybe I am wrong...but at the moment it is the only one.
Click to expand...

His victory count since 2007: (Counting the annulled results)
2007: 8
2008: 10
2009: 11
2010: 9
2011: 9
2012: 5

Sure, he won a lot of races for a stage racer, but not 12-13 per year, thats for sure
 
Taxus4a

Taxus4a

Aug 12, 2012
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burning said:
I find it really funny that some people claim Contador did doped in 2011 but suddenly stopped after his ban expired.

This makes no sense at all, either he's clean all the time, or he's doping all the time. I believe that he's more cautious after his ban, or he just passed his peak and will never win anything
Click to expand...

I know a lot of people think like that... but for me it is not a positive that changed things with a rider yes or yes, it depends... there are a lot of things inside cycling that we dont know. The positive could change or not...

For me, Contador doped between Algarve and Murcia in 2011

For me, things have changed slowly in cycling since 2006 OP till 2012.. and there are some people that have take more time to that, for his experience, status, his contacts, etc...and Contador that month was consider free to race for RFEC... no ban...so, it is not the same that after a ban, than after more pressure, than after a pelotoon cleaning more and more year by year.
It looks that it have no sense, but, it has.

And as well I think (this is just my opinion) there is a thing called memory of doping... you could be clean, but if you has been doping for years, that training (doping alow you to train more) is with you, at least at the begining is better, later could be worse.

So for me, I could not rely on 2011, but yes in 2012, but I said that during his ban, if he would come back as strong or more than before, I had to admit that he is clearly the best and an amazing champion before and now.

Now, I could miss something, but at least I have my doubts.
 
Taxus4a

Taxus4a

Aug 12, 2012
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burning said:
His victory count since 2007: (Counting the annulled results)
2007: 8
2008: 10
2009: 11
2010: 9
2011: 9
2012: 5

Sure, he won a lot of races for a stage racer, but not 12-13 per year, thats for sure
Click to expand...

You are right, thanks :)

I said this

#12 • Publicado por Taxus_4a, el 26 de Diciembre de 2012 a las 17:25
Contador no pasará de las 5 victorias en todo el año, contando etapas y generales (suele estar por las 10 o 12)
Boonen tb coincido que no ganará ningún monumento ni clásica menor de piedras.

well, his best years (without problems): 10, 11, and bad years 9. (without that training race that is San Luis)

This year, 1 for the moment.
 
LaFlorecita

LaFlorecita

May 15, 2011
45,171
617
24,680
Taxus4a said:
You are right, thanks :)

I said this

#12 • Publicado por Taxus_4a, el 26 de Diciembre de 2012 a las 17:25
Contador no pasará de las 5 victorias en todo el año, contando etapas y generales (suele estar por las 10 o 12)
Boonen tb coincido que no ganará ningún monumento ni clásica menor de piedras.

well, his best years (without problems): 10, 11, and bad years 9. (without that training race that is San Luis)

This year, 1 for the moment.
Click to expand...

all about the tour
 
Escarabajo

Escarabajo

Apr 16, 2009
17,339
6,401
28,180
Taxus4a said:
..

Blah! blah! blah!.

Contador claims always he was clean in Tour 2010. Maybe it is true, it is hard to believe with a positive, but he wanst as strong than other times, and that is no so different as Froome last year IMO
Click to expand...
...........

You sound like an old troll we used to have in the Clinic. BPC. I wonder if this has come to life.

And NO! Froome is not clean either. If evidence for you is a positive you are not going to get it.
 
airstream

airstream

BANNED
Mar 29, 2011
5,122
0
0
Taxus4a I don't tnink he was really good in long flat TTs. Yes, he won a lot of short time trials at the expense of taking a risk a riding turns technically. But in general he always suffered in long TT's of Tour type. The only exceptions is the final Tour 2007 trial. Though the 2007 Tour is completely separate chapter of history of doping in cycling.
 
martinvickers

martinvickers

BANNED
Oct 15, 2012
4,903
0
0
vrusimov said:
You always believed that Contador, a man who went up a mountain faster than any cyclist in any Tour de France in history, could actually be BETTER WITHOUT DOPE??? a VAM of about 1864m/hr without being juiced??? A performance in most cases miles better than known dopers like Riis, Pantani, Ullrich and Armstrong?

I won't bother with the pejoratives...:confused:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/07/tour-2009-contador-climb.html
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstand him. I think his point is that the difference between a clean Contador adn a clean peleton is greater than that between a dirty contador and a dirty peleton.
 
Taxus4a

Taxus4a

Aug 12, 2012
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airstream said:
Taxus4a I don't tnink he was really good in long flat TTs. Yes, he won a lot of short time trials at the expense of taking a risk a riding turns technically. But in general he always suffered in long TT's of Tour type. The only exceptions is the final Tour 2007 trial. Though the 2007 Tour is completely separate chapter of history of doping in cycling.
Click to expand...


Yes, not really good, but he was the best of the world, and one of the best of History, if not the better, in shot and "changes of rythm" TT and he did ok in long and flat ITT. Even he won Annecy, yes, with a change of wind that help him againts Cancellara, and with a short climb, but he was the best in the first intermediate point, completely flat around the lake, better than Wiggins, much better than Nibali, Lance, etc...with similar wind.

In the Vuelta he was I think 5th , in Albacete, behind of people as Chavanel (Levi won), it is not super, but is ok...

In the only long ITT this year we see another thing, and in the shorts he is far to be the best one, even he is still good.
 
Taxus4a

Taxus4a

Aug 12, 2012
6,989
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Escarabajo said:
...........

You sound like an old troll we used to have in the Clinic. BPC. I wonder if this has come to life.

And NO! Froome is not clean either. If evidence for you is a positive you are not going to get it.
Click to expand...


Why do you think Contador dope now?
He is with Riis, but anyway I dont believe that. He is good and good profesional, he dont need anything ilegal to performe like this year.
 
melkemugg

melkemugg

May 16, 2012
321
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del1962 said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-shorts-on-the-lookout-for-riis-and-contador




Innocently lost or something else?
Click to expand...

Im excited how you guys are going to read into this. Maybe he planted a blood bag in a secret corridor and decided to "get lost for a while!? What about Martins strange cockpit adventure? :p

Interesting thread anyways. I find it very odd that more dirt havent been tossed at Bertie after everything happened the last year. As much as i like his riding style he is definitive an old school sprung under the dark era that might have become clean-ish or at least cleanER after he left Astana.

Riis avoiding the press is pretty hilarious tho.
 
L

Le Baroudeur

Oct 28, 2012
600
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Zam_Olyas said:
Is it? a fanboy hurt?
Click to expand...

Not particularly a fan, Certainly not emotionally attatched, just an observer of media patterns. Same old same old, and the same punters paying for fish wrappings every time.
 
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