Read the post again Dekker. I am against 3 am tests.Dekker_Tifosi said:I would say a good night sleep is a basic human right
But they can enforce other things without violating human rights.
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Read the post again Dekker. I am against 3 am tests.Dekker_Tifosi said:I would say a good night sleep is a basic human right
I still don't see what basic human right is being violated in your post.andy1234 said:Of course nobody makes them race. Nobody makes you go to work either, but I bet it's pretty f***ing important to your family that you do!
It's a profession, not a lifestyle choice.
As I stated earlier, it's a wonder anybody wants to turn pro these days with attitudes like this.
180mmCrank said:It will never happen and it wouldn't prevent those that want to cheat from cheating. This is an ethical issue for (the culture of) the sport - it will never be solved by increasing the amount of monitoring in this way.
I am quite amazed by the number of people that think this is appropriate even from a basic humanitarian perspective. If we had a poll that called for 24/7 surveillance or some kind of isollation strategy - how many people would vote in favor?
What do people think all of this feels like to an athlete - a clean athlete? I had to p!ss in bottle 2 or 3 times a year for ten years (there was less testing back then) - I resented it every time. Even though I knew it was for the greater good of the sport - I still hated having some guy stand over me as I peed in a pot. I might feel differenly now but I know how I felt then.
Escarabajo said:I still don't see what basic human right is being violated in your post.
I have to obey a lot of rules in my work place. I don't like some of them but it is a sacrifice. And I have to follow the rules too. Funny enough we have drug testing. In the last company I worked they fired someone for taking somebody else precription for headahes. He was not even an athlete. Talk about being tough. BTW, I live in USA.
patricknd said:so how often do they come to your house, wake you from a peaceful sleep, and test you?
Please read the post again.patricknd said:so how often do they come to your house, wake you from a peaceful sleep, and test you?
Maxiton said:Along the lines of a 3 AM wake up for doping control, I'd go one further: In each grand tour choose at least one rider to be hung from the ceiling by his gonads. (The rider could be chosen based on blood passport levels or at random.) A few hours hanging will produce significant discomfort, but if properly supervised will probably not result in permanent damage. The purpose of this action is not to test for PEDs, of course, but rather to serve as a disincentive for their use.
And if the riders don't wish to agree to this . . . ordeal, shall we call it? Then perhaps they should not be racing. And if the riders want to put a permanent end to the ordeal? They should stop doping! Simple! Until they do stop, let them hang.
Maxiton said:I can tell you, if I were that rider I'd tell them to get bent, and then I'd retire right there. I don't care what JV says. He's speaking as an owner. Let them wake him up. If they can't find a way to detect doping without going to absurd, inhumane extremes, they need to redouble their efforts. Treating the riders without consideration, just to ensure they aren't doping, is just the flip side of making them dope to improve their results.
Benotti69 said:JV also a former rider.
Don't be ridiculous. But then again why stop now.i suppose it would be inhumane to wake them up if the hotel is on fire as they have 220km stage up 5 HC climbs tomorrow
I still believe the riders have the power to end doping in the sport.
poupou said:As rider what is the uncomfortable for me?
To be wake up at 3am?
Or to have to ride with blood doped riders dropping me at the first climb and reducing my cycling value? Or worst forcing me to dope too?
Maxiton said:J.V. is speaking as an owner, not a rider. He's concerned about his interests, not necessarily the riders' interest.
Don't be ridiculous. But then again why stop now.
Maxiton said:That's exactly right. The riders, and only the riders. If they form their own union, or join a union, they can stop doping and they will stop it. There might be a few riders -
anti-social types - who are willing to jeopordize their health for the sake of a result; but the vast majority would not be, but for pressure from their handlers. No one can
stop riders from doping except other riders. If they are organized and in control of their own fates, doping is finished.
Maxiton said:I posted this to point out the absurdity of waking people up at 3 AM in the middle of a stage race. Apparently no one here thinks it's unreasonable to propose hanging riders
by their gonads in order to fight doping . . . . Someone even replied to my post as though I was serious.
People, take a step back. Put yourself in the riders' position. You're in a stage race. You're exhausted, so much so that you maybe have trouble getting to sleep. Finally you
fall into blessed, deep, restful REM sleep; and then, suddenly, you hear a clamor. What's going on? Where am I? OMG, someone's rapping at the door. Fire in the hotel?!
Someone at home died?! "Good morning. Sorry for waking you at 3 AM, but it's time for a doping control."
I can tell you, if I were that rider I'd tell them to get bent, and then I'd retire right there. I don't care what JV says. He's speaking as an owner. Let them wake him up. If
they can't find a way to detect doping without going to absurd, inhumane extremes, they need to redouble their efforts. Treating the riders without consideration, just to
ensure they aren't doping, is just the flip side of making them dope to improve their results. Same coin, different day.
And if you seriously think it's alright to do whatever to a rider, under the guise of anti-doping, you really need to take a look at yourself.
JMBeaushrimp said:Imagine you're a young neopro, say early twenties, you're physiologically gifted, and you happen to believe in the honest ethics of true sport. You blast through the junior and amateur fields, crushing everyone and are heralded as a local hero. The next star. As you pass through the upper amateur ranks you realize that there is a serious doping problem in cycling.
You've dedicated your youth to bettering yourself as a rider, and have put many other 'real life' concerns on hold (education, relationships, having a 'normal life', etc). With your natural physiology, which has garnered you a bit of fame and enough good results to make it to the 'big time', you get increasingly frustrated with how 'relative' your ability to perform has become.
Guys you used to walk away from on climbs are dropping you like a rock. You're completely on the rivet from start to finish at most races, and forget about winning - you can't even do any worthwhile work to really help your team out.
Continually getting outperformed by riders who, only a season ago, made you look like a superstar is starting to get old, but you tough it out for a few more years.
You finally lose all faith in the sport, and retire with nothing. No WC medal, no yellow jersey, no Olympic medal. Also with none of the 'normal' trappings that result from growing up in the non-cycling world.
You become despondent, a bit bitter, and end up driving a truck for a living. Or killing yourself in a cheap, stark hotel room...
Nah... I'll take the 300h wake-up call.
Cry me a river, Maxiton...
flicker said:Are you talking F. Vanderbrouke, Iban Mayo Pantani or Floyd here?
washedup said:It's about time to make a major commitment to making an honest sport. I would imagine each and every clean rider would be proud to pee in a cup at 3 AM. What better way to pound your chest than to be in that league, knowing full well you earned it like a man.
180mmCrank said:Really? Go try and wake one up and 3am and ask them - be ready to duck when they take a swing at you!
JMBeaushrimp said:Looks like not all of them are going to punch you out...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-says-night-time-doping-controls-are-no-problem
Smart PR move by the missle...
180mmCrank said:Today in CN
"World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) director general David Howman has clarified that the night time controls recommended by independent observers of the Tour de France’s anti-doping programme would not take place in the middle of the night."
I don't want to say i told folk that this wwould never happen but...
Terry
JMBeaushrimp said:The controls don't need to be at 300h, as long as the 'window' is shortened.
What time is 'the middle of the night' anyway? Since they're going to be targeting suspect profiles, I don't really think that a clean rider need worry about his sleep getting disrupted. As to dirty riders be disrupted, I don't really care...