Should the grupetto have been DQ'd on Stage 15?

[BigMac]

Re: Should Chris Froome still have teammates on Stage 16?

And some people are still surprised why is so much negative feelings towards SKY.
It was the Tour "rule banding" and now all their team take the day off without any punishment.
So tomorrow thy will have completely fresh team, we are lucky there is not a mountain stage tomorrow.

I must be really, really dumb not to see what this has to do with Sky in particular. How many riders came outside time limit, remind me?

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

[quote="Decision has been made. No DSQs.
Thanks good to hear!

Continues the terrible precedent we have already. So no, bad news actually.

True but you can't stop the precedent without making it clear before hand. It would be unfair on the riders who would have if they known expended that little bit extra energy to get within the time limit

Little bit extra energy= going 20+ minutes faster.

That equality only holds under skybot logic.

What makes you think I'm a skybot? 20 minutes over a four hour stage is only about 10 percent more speed not a lot

Today it was 54 minutes on a stage that was less than 3 hours for the winner. That's over 30% difference in time, about 25% difference in speed, which might be like a 30-50% difference in power output for all I know. That is absolutely massive.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

Teams should at least lose one or two team members. A fine means nothing to some teams when they won't even have to pick up the tab for it. Cough cough.

Of course, though, these are all arbitrary punishments thought of in the heat of the moment, a posteriori, with no sort of basis in written rules and therefore impractical and useless to suggest.

 

[huge]

Not gonna watch any stage of this farce anymore.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Should Chris Froome still have teammates on Stage 16?

And some people are still surprised why is so much negative feelings towards SKY.
It was the Tour "rule banding" and now all their team take the day off without any punishment.
So tomorrow thy will have completely fresh team, we are lucky there is not a mountain stage tomorrow.

I must be really, really dumb not to see what this has to do with Sky in particular. How many riders came outside time limit, remind me?

I just have a feeling that their riders and the power of sky is behind such a blatant abuse of rules and such a slowriding.
And it is their team in a chase for red who is profiting mostly from this decision. Would you be so tolerant if we have a team time trial tomorrow or heavy HC stage?

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Of course, though, these are all arbitrary punishments thought of in the heat of the moment, a posteriori, with no sort of basis in written rules and therefore impractical and useless to suggest.

Which rules are you talking about?
The ones that can be ignored at will?

 

[hrotha]

Re: Should Chris Froome still have teammates on Stage 16?

I just have a feeling that their riders and the power of sky is behind such a blatant abuse of rules and such a small riding

I'm sorry, are you new to cycling? This is the way it's ALWAYS done. Again, unfortunately.

 

[Carl0880]

Re: Re:

Also you must factor in that the guys in the grupetto im sure several of them sat in the middle of the pack out of the wind, thus conserving even more energy, while all the guys in front of the time cut im sure spent a fair amount of time in the wind. So its not just the extra 20-25 minutes to finish, but the additional drafting. Don't know if anyone saw, but I have a feeling the front of the grupetto probably didn't have any Sky guys in it (I could be wrong). When you factor in Movistar had 8 riders finish inside the time cut, and several of them spent a good portion of the stage in the wind, it could be a big difference.

If anyone should be pissed about the go slow for the grupetto, it should be those guys that finished between 20-30 minutes down on the winner. These are the guys that put in the effort to get inside of that time limit instead of sitting up and riding in with the rest.

 

[saganboss]

so they received a 25 points penalty in the classification. great

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Should Chris Froome still have teammates on Stage 16?

I just have a feeling that their riders and the power of sky is behind such a blatant abuse of rules and such a small riding

I'm sorry, are you new to cycling? This is the way it's ALWAYS done. Again, unfortunately.

I know and I hate it really much. As the most sprinters are allowed to softpedal 80% of the GT and be so excellent in the end of sprinters stage.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Of course, though, these are all arbitrary punishments thought of in the heat of the moment, a posteriori, with no sort of basis in written rules and therefore impractical and useless to suggest.

Which rules are you talking about?
The ones that can be ignored at will?

I'm saying the rules that exist should be applied, and not irrational sanctions invented just after an infraction has taken place. And no, the rules that are cannot be ignored at will and they haven't. Whoever took the decision acted accordingly to precedents set before, as wrong as they may be. This decision was expected.

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

[quote="
True but you can't stop the precedent without making it clear before hand. It would be unfair on the riders who would have if they known expended that little bit extra energy to get within the time limit[/quote]

Little bit extra energy= going 20+ minutes faster.

That equality only holds under skybot logic.[/quote]
What makes you think I'm a skybot? 20 minutes over a four hour stage is only about 10 percent more speed not a lot[/quote]
Today it was 54 minutes on a stage that was less than 3 hours for the winner. That's over 30% difference in time, about 25% difference in speed, which might be like a 30-50% difference in power output for all I know. That is absolutely massive.[/quote]

Let's say they needed to go 25 mims faster just to beat time limit. There were 30 kms of descent and it is hard to go a lot faster on descents, so lets say they would have been at same speed. That means that they would have to ride the flats and climbs in 175 mins compared to 200 mins, which means going %15 faster. If one thinks that a %25 increase in power is "little bit extra", I don't have anything to say as he's either a troll or a skybot who only cares for sky.

 

[Andro]

so they received a 25 points penalty in the classification. great

That'll teach them.

 

[Popchu]

I would give them a time penalty

 

[hrotha]

Re: Should Chris Froome still have teammates on Stage 16?

I just have a feeling that their riders and the power of sky is behind such a blatant abuse of rules and such a small riding

I'm sorry, are you new to cycling? This is the way it's ALWAYS done. Again, unfortunately.

I know and I hate it really much. As the most sprinters are allowed to softpedal 80% of the GT and be so excellent in the end of sprinters stage.

If you know it, why would you claim it's about Sky?

 

[Alexandre B.]

https://twitter.com/MorenoMoser/status/772484864117444608
@MorenoMoser
What about the guys who went full gas, alone, until the finish line?

 

[Pantani_lives]

Re:

I would give them a time penalty

I would give them a good, old-fashioned spanking.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re:

I would give them a time penalty

I would wish them safe journey back home and say good bye. Seems fair.

 

[Eclipse]

It's shameful that we have riders fight heroically to make the time cut only to get eliminated eg King at the TdF in 2013 but a whole group of riders can just sit up and say we don't really feel like racing today thank you very much and they all get to stay and rest up

 

[Andro]

Re:

https://twitter.com/MorenoMoser/status/772484864117444608
@MorenoMoser
What about the guys who went full gas, alone, until the finish line?

Exactly. Extremely unfair that some riders were busting their ass off and stayed inside the time limit while others took a rest day and were bailed out by a gutless jury.

 

[Alexandre B.]

https://twitter.com/Jan_Bakelants/status/772476420291457024
@Jan_Bakelants
Curious for the commissaries decision in @lavuelta today. Peloton largely "hors délai". Allowing them to start, feels a bit like race fraud.

Among others.

 

[SKSemtex]

Re: Should Chris Froome still have teammates on Stage 16?

I just have a feeling that their riders and the power of sky is behind such a blatant abuse of rules and such a small riding

I'm sorry, are you new to cycling? This is the way it's ALWAYS done. Again, unfortunately.

I know and I hate it really much. As the most sprinters are allowed to softpedal 80% of the GT and be so excellent in the end of sprinters stage.

If you know it, why would you claim it's about Sky?

Because it is something different. Mostly those are riders who does not have the legs for mountains but we are talking about Sky climbers not even trying to get close to the limit, being probably told by Mr. Brailsford that they do not have to give a ***.

But OK
Enough today. Peace. It was great stage anyway. I pray tomorrow Sky will tear peloton apart and TT Froome 3,5 min ahead of Nairo.

 

[Samamba]

And what if some guy who did nothing today beats Bakelants or Moser or some other guy who gave everything tomorrow? There gonna be furious.

 

[Red Rick]

Let's all pretend this thread is about an issue that cycling has rather than what we think of team Sky, because that has little to do with the issue at hand

 

[veji11]

They shouldn't have been DQed because there is way too many. They should each have been fined as much money as possible though in a sort of "name and shame" act... That's probably the best that could be done.