Should the riders be allowed to ride without helmets on the MTFs?

[Escarabajo]

I voted 'yes' because the riders are grown men, and I think it'd be more fitting if we treated them as such - and gave them the choice, MTF or otherwise.

And they all behave likewise, right?

 

[maltiv]

untrained people on regular bikes going to work ro whatever, who wear helmets should be kicked in all instances

Are you insane? A 30 y.o woman who lived close to me died after falling from her bike at about 10 km/h without a helmet. That's all it takes...

 

[Escarabajo]

I think I've read all the posts in ths thread and I haven't seen any opinion based on evidence.

Does anyone know how many riders suffered head injuries requiring medical assistance from fall/ crashes whilst climbing to a MTF in say the 20yrs prior to the rule that helmets must be worn? I'm not aware of any but I've not studied it.

Also is anyone awhere of the number of crashes that occured during the time when helmets could be removed at the start of the final climb of a MTF that were as a result of the process of cyclists removing their helmets and dropping them off.
Again I'm not aware of any but that's not to say there haven't been.


If someone can give examples of either then I'm happy to change my vote. If not I'm not sure on the logic behind the insistance that rides wear helmets at all times.

The sample size is too small for assessing any kind of statistics. It only happened for maybe for a couple of years. I remember 2003 at the bottom of Luz Ardiden being very chaotic because nobody wanted to loose the lead group at that point.

Maybe somebody can check on that.

If it is for overheating purposes then I'd say let's talk about it. Has that decreased the performance of cyclist due to poor heat transfer? I doubt it. If the argument is for looks then I'd say an absolute "no". My opinion.

 

[Kwibus]

Are you insane? A 30 y.o woman who lived close to me died after falling from her bike at about 10 km/h without a helmet. That's all it takes...

You see who you are replying too?

I'd love to see no helmets on MTF's , but it's not gonna happen.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Are you insane? A 30 y.o woman who lived close to me died after falling from her bike at about 10 km/h without a helmet. That's all it takes...

yeah and some time ago a person here was hit by lightning and she died. that's life

 

[Arnout]

You know... it's really funny. I can still see the riders just fine. It is only the top part of the head which is covered by a helmet...

I can see them but I can see them better without helmet.

 

[Parera]

I voted 'yes' because the riders are grown men, and I think it'd be more fitting if we treated them as such - and gave them the choice, MTF or otherwise.

So should hockey players be allowed to choose whether or not they wear helmets? Does the team/governing body have absolutely no interest in the health of their employees/participants?

 

[El Pistolero]

So should hockey players be allowed to choose whether or not they wear helmets? Does the team/governing body have absolutely no interest in the health of their employees/participants?

I saw a vid once at one of my uni courses where Ice hockey players were beating the crap out of each other. Just hitting each other in the face without trying to block or avoid till someone gave up. Apparently that was all according to the rules lol. So, no, Ice hockey governing body doesn't give a crap about the health of their participants.

 

[Parera]

I saw a vid once at one of my uni courses where Ice hockey players were beating the crap out of each other. Just hitting each other in the face without trying to block or avoid till someone gave up. Apparently that was all according to the rules lol. So, no, Ice hockey governing body doesn't give a crap about the health of their participants.

Ignorance of hockey. The fights are, speaking loosely here, "allowed" to an extent as they can deter more serious violence. There is actually a code of conduct in fights starting with a verbal acknowledgement between players that they are going to take the gloves off. Premeditated fights form the vast majority of fights, usually conducted between enforcers. Spontaneous fights between other players are rare.

 

[El Pistolero]

Ignorance of hockey. The fights are, speaking loosely here, "allowed" to an extent as they can deter more serious violence. There is actually a code of conduct in fights starting with a verbal acknowledgement between players that they are going to take the gloves off. Premeditated fights form the vast majority of fights, usually conducted between enforcers. Spontaneous fights between other players are rare.

How so ignorance? That's what I mean. The course I was taking was called social history on violence with an emphasis on the rules of honor that existed in inter-personal fights throughout history. You don't think these premeditated fights are ridiculous?

 

[ggusta]

Seems to me you can't do a sanctioned bicycle race of any sort without being required to wear a helmet. And yes, we can sit here and debate what that means or if it's worth it and act like a bunch of blowhards but I digress, it's a waste of my time to add fuel to that particular fire. Thus, for the sake of consistency, I will simply say just keep your helmet on at all times.

It's certainly not a "right" to race a bicycle, so if someone says a helmet is required then so be it. If it's that an affront to your sensibilities don't watch cycling or don't race.

We're just talking on a message board, first of all. I do not think there will be any action taken as a result of this brilliant, enlightened, thoughtful, serious discussion.

I don't think there are any activists here trying to lead the charge for the tdf to allow no helmets on mtf's, but I still standby my original thoughts: Once the speed drops down and the field starts to thin on THE FINAL CLIMB I think it would be better if the choice was allowed.

And having said that I know full well my thoughts will never be the case, and if they ever were, you just know within a year or two, there'd be some tragedy befalling an unhelmeted rider and everyone will run around saying 'See what an idiot ggusta is!! Why did we listen to some shmuck posting on a message board? What the heck were we thinking?"

 

[ggusta]

The sample size is too small for assessing any kind of statistics. It only happened for maybe for a couple of years. I remember 2003 at the bottom of Luz Ardiden being very chaotic because nobody wanted to loose the lead group at that point.

Maybe somebody can check on that.

If it is for overheating purposes then I'd say let's talk about it. Has that decreased the performance of cyclist due to poor heat transfer? I doubt it. If the argument is for looks then I'd say an absolute "no". My opinion.

My perception is that the overheating concern for them is not what this discussion is about. I could be wrong. I think overheating is going to be a problem with or without a helmet. I imagine there is data somewhere. But like I said, the thing driving this 'pro-choice' side seems to be a matter of aesthetics.

 

[Kiara is a rational girl]

Yes! They're grown men but they're also role models. Having them wear helmets is a way of telling the children that "Look! The pros use them. How can wearing one be uncool then?"

And, yes! I know that a lot of people who cycle aren't actually cycling-fans...

So what? Is it that important to have the pros be positive role models? Don't these kids have parents to run their lives? Anyway, it's hardly a genuine message if the pros are forced, is it?

So should hockey players be allowed to choose whether or not they wear helmets? Does the team/governing body have absolutely no interest in the health of their employees/participants?

Sure. Let the players take the risk, whatever it may be, if they want to. Does the team/governing body have absolutely no interest in their employees/participants as individuals, capable of having their own values and opinions? Just because you think health should always come first, it doesn't mean everyone else does. There's nothing sacrosanct here.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

So should hockey players be allowed to choose whether or not they wear helmets? Does the team/governing body have absolutely no interest in the health of their employees/participants?

that's completely apples and oranges. getting hit with pucks at 100 km/h in your face or crashing from a bike with 20 km/h, which btw rarely occurs unlike a goalie getting shot at

 

[RedheadDane]

So what? Is it that important to have the pros be positive role models? Don't these kids have parents to run their lives?

Yes. They do! Hopefully... but in the end only the kids themselves can decide to wear a helmet (I'm not talking young kids here... more like teens, the age in which appearing cool is very important) After all; a kid can put on his/her helmet when leaving home then, as soon as (s)he is out of view, can just take off the helmet and hang it on the handlebar.

But, back on topic. Has anyone ever tried asking the riders if they think wearing a helmet uphill is a problem?

 

[Arnout]

Yes. They do! Hopefully... but in the end only the kids themselves can decide to wear a helmet (I'm not talking young kids here... more like teens, the age in which appearing cool is very important) After all; a kid can put on his/her helmet when leaving home then, as soon as (s)he is out of view, can just take off the helmet and hang it on the handlebar.

But, back on topic. Has anyone ever tried asking the riders if they think wearing a helmet uphill is a problem?

So what do you think of ****ing on the site of the road, jumping bumps, descending with your hands away from the brakes and your body away from the saddle? All things that are dangerous / antisocial, yet they are accepted.

I don't think the pro's opinion is relevant. The discussion point being made is that there is no point in the helmet rule on a MTF. It might be an irrelevant discussion (after all its the off season), but the pro's opinion is not important. The point is the rule. If there is no sense in wearing a mountain uphill, then why is there a rule for it?

IMO all unnecessary rules should be banned from this world. This one too.

 

[BroDeal]

Yes. They do! Hopefully... but in the end only the kids themselves can decide to wear a helmet (I'm not talking young kids here... more like teens, the age in which appearing cool is very important) After all; a kid can put on his/her helmet when leaving home then, as soon as (s)he is out of view, can just take off the helmet and hang it on the handlebar.

If you are worried about your kids copying the behavior of a bunch of dope using pros who lie like it was an Olympic sport then the pros' helmet use is the least of your worries.

 

[Thomsena]

How many mountains do not have flat or even downhill parts where riders increase their speed significantly?

 

[stainlessguy1]

You know... it's really funny. I can still see the riders just fine. It is only the top part of the head which is covered by a helmet...

Ya but, ReadheadDane, that is easy for you to say and we can pick you out in a crowd. You have red hair and wear a cap with horns sticking out all the time. So from a Camera guys perspective you are easy to spot.