Should the riders be allowed to ride without helmets on the MTFs?

[Thomsena]

Everything is dangerous. You could die from a heart attack while boinking your girlfriend. You could die while walking on a sidewalk and tripping. It happens all the time. The scam diet guru Atkins died just that way. It always comes down to a question of risk and reward, or in this case risk and unreward. Sprinting in a group has a high risk of crashes. Bike helmets do not offer much protection at high speed, but because of the frequency of crashes you might as well decrease your odds of serious injury a bit. If nothing else, helmets decrease cosmetic injuries. The chance of falling and dying while riding up hill is neglible. It is in the same range as dying while slipping in the shower. No one would seriously suggest that people should wear helmets while showering, so it is ridiculous to insist that helmet use while riding uphill is important.

I can't believe I'm reading this.

 

[ggusta]

OK. We'll tell the sponsors it was your idea. I'm sure the riders will love it.

EDIT: I'm at least as old school as you are. If it were up to me bike races, including time trials, would be ridden on steel road bikes. But when it comes to head safety, I think we have to give the nod to helmets.

I think everyone should wear helmets all the time including when they go to bed. You really just never know, do you?

 

[ElChingon]

The fact that his skull still cracked whilst wearing a helmet, means that the impact was pretty damn severe. And the doctors that performed surgery on him -My dad being one of them- told hime he was superlucky to even be alive.

Also your physics statement has nothing to do with what I said, which was that his helmet saved his life

The odd thing is your skull is still much better at handling an impact than a helmet, the helmet is only a buffer to the skull to reduce the impact so its not luck, its bone mass that helped him survive. If he had a calcium deficiency he's be toast helmet or no helmet.

Then everyone ignores the most common injury, the broken collar bone. Is the broken collar bone a minor injury? I think not, it has even ended careers if not kept some riders from reaching their potential and of course altered the race results due to riders not being able to continue due to the broken collar bone. An injury like this has affected cycling much more than any other injury and everyone washes it aside as an afterthought or no-thought. I've seen people with badly healed collar bones where it sticks out or makes the person's shoulders mismatched and has secondary effects on their posture and a cause of back and shoulder problems later in life but who cares! The helmet must be worn!

I won't even go into the skin issues due to major road rash, who remembers Museeuw's gangrene due to falling at P-R? Surely most of you want P-R sanitized before the next race?

 

[SirLes]

I think I've read all the posts in ths thread and I haven't seen any opinion based on evidence.

Does anyone know how many riders suffered head injuries requiring medical assistance from fall/ crashes whilst climbing to a MTF in say the 20yrs prior to the rule that helmets must be worn? I'm not aware of any but I've not studied it.

Also is anyone awhere of the number of crashes that occured during the time when helmets could be removed at the start of the final climb of a MTF that were as a result of the process of cyclists removing their helmets and dropping them off.
Again I'm not aware of any but that's not to say there haven't been.


If someone can give examples of either then I'm happy to change my vote. If not I'm not sure on the logic behind the insistance that rides wear helmets at all times.

 

[jens_attacks]

don't know what to say,maybe it's my fault because i didn't write mountain top finish just MTF so maybe there are people misunderstanding the topic.it can't be that all of those people didn't ride a bike uphill never in their lifes,can it? the results of this poll are hard to believe...

 

[RedheadDane]

don't know what to say,maybe it's my fault because i didn't write mountain top finish just MTF so maybe there are people misunderstanding the topic.it can't be that all of those people didn't ride a bike uphill never in their lifes,can it? the results of this poll are hard to believe...

Why? The majority (myself included) just voted No. Not No, it's too dangerous.
I know that the bad headinjuries doesn't happen uphill, but while some of the Yes-sayers seem to think 'Riding uphill isn't dangerous. Why keep the helmets on?' My opinion is the other why around. I think: 'Helmets aren't heavy and badly ventilated anymore. Why take them off?'

 

[hrotha]

Why? The majority (myself included) just voted No. Not No, it's too dangerous.
I know that the bad headinjuries doesn't happen uphill, but while some of the Yes-sayers seem to think 'Riding uphill isn't dangerous. Why keep the helmets on?' My opinion is the other why around. I think: 'Helmets aren't heavy and badly ventilated anymore. Why take them off?'

Exactly. I don't see the point.

Also, jens, for future reference, if you want to start a discussion it might be a good idea not to belittle and ridicule all opinions that differ from your own.

 

[jens_attacks]

Why? The majority (myself included) just voted No. Not No, it's too dangerous.
I know that the bad headinjuries doesn't happen uphill, but while some of the Yes-sayers seem to think 'Riding uphill isn't dangerous. Why keep the helmets on?' My opinion is the other why around. I think: 'Helmets aren't heavy and badly ventilated anymore. Why take them off?'

well from now on i'm for these:

let them put these uphill.i'm sure the helmet companies can make them aerodynamic,ventilated and light.of course just like the normal ones,it won't have any safety meaning but hell what,they are gonna get used to them.

why take them off?that's the wrong question.the primary question is WHY WEAR THEM?

i perfectly understand that all you guys who started following cycling since the rule was in place are against it because it's not normal and you got used to it.but no,i still think wearing the plastic on the MTFs is just plainful wrong and ridiculous and it should be abolished.

 

[Parera]

well from now on i'm for these:

let them put these uphill.i'm sure the helmet companies can make them aerodynamic,ventilated and light.of course just like the normal ones,it won't have any safety meaning but hell what,they are gonna get used to them.

why take them off?that's the wrong question.the primary question is WHY WEAR THEM?

i perfectly understand that all you guys who started following cycling since the rule was in place are against it because it's not normal and you got used to it.but no,i still think wearing the plastic on the MTFs is just plainful wrong and ridiculous and it should be abolished.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

[RedheadDane]

why take them off?that's the wrong question.the primary question is WHY WEAR THEM?

i perfectly understand that all you guys who started following cycling since the rule was in place are against it because it's not normal and you got used to it.but no,i still think wearing the plastic on the MTFs is just plainful wrong and ridiculous and it should be abolished.

When you ask Why wear them? It at least the way I see it implies Why wear them at all? And I think we have sorted out by now why wearing a helmet while zooming down at 80 KpH is a good idea...
You say it's ridiculous to wear helmets on MTFs, you could turn it around and say it's ridiculous to take off something which, as far as I can tell, isn't really an inconvenience. Heck, how are we to know whether or not the riders think it would be nice to have the option of taking them off? If one guy attacks on a MTF without taking his helmet off I don't think the chasers are gonna stop and take off theirs...
Nine years ago helmets might have been bothersome to wear uphill when it was hot, but thanks to the technologial progress I don't think that's an issue any longer.

As for that picture. Come on!
Helmets don't look like that.
Helmets have never looked like that.
Helmets will never look like that.








I know this is off-topic and rather minor but please, please, please capitalize your Is It's just... wrong when they're not! #Grammarisimportant!

 

[Parera]

Seems to me you can't do a sanctioned bicycle race of any sort without being required to wear a helmet. And yes, we can sit here and debate what that means or if it's worth it and act like a bunch of blowhards but I digress, it's a waste of my time to add fuel to that particular fire. Thus, for the sake of consistency, I will simply say just keep your helmet on at all times.

It's certainly not a "right" to race a bicycle, so if someone says a helmet is required then so be it. If it's that an affront to your sensibilities don't watch cycling or don't race.

 

[Von Mises]

When you ask Why wear them? It at least the way I see it implies Why wear them at all? And I think we have sorted out by now why wearing a helmet while zooming down at 80 KpH is a good idea...
You say it's ridiculous to wear helmets on MTFs, you could turn it around and say it's ridiculous to take off something which, as far as I can tell, isn't really an inconvenience. Heck, how are we to know whether or not the riders think it would be nice to have the option of taking them off? If one guy attacks on a MTF without taking his helmet off I don't think the chasers are gonna stop and take off theirs...
Nine years ago helmets might have been bothersome to wear uphill when it was hot, but thanks to the technologial progress I don't think that's an issue any longer.

No, it is not tehcnoligical issue. And we are not forcing them to take off helmets. It is their choice, and as far as I know, they are all adults, who can make choices and take responsibility, they do not need nanny-style tyranny.

 

[jens_attacks]

Seems to me you can't do a sanctioned bicycle race of any sort without being required to wear a helmet. And yes, we can sit here and debate what that means or if it's worth it and act like a bunch of blowhards but I digress, it's a waste of my time to add fuel to that particular fire. Thus, for the sake of consistency, I will simply say just keep your helmet on at all times.

It's certainly not a "right" to race a bicycle, so if someone says a helmet is required then so be it. If it's that an affront to your sensibilities don't watch cycling or don't race.

of course i didn't want to sound like an asz although i probably did.i'd watch pro cycling even they'd race with those clowns hats i posted.i accept it as it is but i can't deny i'd like better to see the riders on the mtfs without them.end of story,this was my last post on this subject.

 

[Arnout]

I think I've read all the posts in ths thread and I haven't seen any opinion based on evidence.

Does anyone know how many riders suffered head injuries requiring medical assistance from fall/ crashes whilst climbing to a MTF in say the 20yrs prior to the rule that helmets must be worn? I'm not aware of any but I've not studied it.

Also is anyone awhere of the number of crashes that occured during the time when helmets could be removed at the start of the final climb of a MTF that were as a result of the process of cyclists removing their helmets and dropping them off.
Again I'm not aware of any but that's not to say there haven't been.


If someone can give examples of either then I'm happy to change my vote. If not I'm not sure on the logic behind the insistance that rides wear helmets at all times.

Good post. I can think of three uphill crashes: Zoetemelk in 1980, Armstrong-Mayo in 2003 and Menchov on Prato Nevoso in 2009(?). The former two examples didn't wear helmets, which was no problem, Menchov didn't have any benefit from his helmet either.

Why? The majority (myself included) just voted No. Not No, it's too dangerous.
I know that the bad headinjuries doesn't happen uphill, but while some of the Yes-sayers seem to think 'Riding uphill isn't dangerous. Why keep the helmets on?' My opinion is the other why around. I think: 'Helmets aren't heavy and badly ventilated anymore. Why take them off?'

Because it looks better to see a riders head than to see a nose with a cauliflower and because it's still way more comfortable. The last point is from own experience of riding in the mountains, both with and without helmet uphill. And I own a helmet of the kind they also use in the pro peleton (the MET 2010 of Liquigas and Cofidis).

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Good post. I can think of three uphill crashes: Zoetemelk in 1980, Armstrong-Mayo in 2003 and Menchov on Prato Nevoso in 2009(?). The former two examples didn't wear helmets, which was no problem, Menchov didn't have any benefit from his helmet either.



Because it looks better to see a riders head than to see a nose with a cauliflower and because it's still way more comfortable. The last point is from own experience of riding in the mountains, both with and without helmet uphill. And I own a helmet of the kind they also use in the pro peleton (the MET 2010 of Liquigas and Cofidis).

Meh, after 5 minutes you don't feel you're wearing it anymore imo....

 

[Arnout]

Meh, after 5 minutes you don't feel you're wearing it anymore imo....

I thought that too. Until I tried a climb without helmet for the first time

 

[Maxiton]

Why? The majority (myself included) just voted No. Not No, it's too dangerous.
I know that the bad head injuries doesn't happen uphill, but while some of the Yes-sayers seem to think 'Riding uphill isn't dangerous. Why keep the helmets on?' My opinion is the other why around. I think: 'Helmets aren't heavy and badly ventilated anymore. Why take them off?'

+1. I think the rule - helmets must be worn at all times while racing - was about establishing and maintaining consistency. Taking the helmet off when you think it might be safe is a slippery slope. It's a way of saying the helmet is an encumbrance or an inconvenience, instead of a necessary piece of equipment like shoes.

Helmet technology could do with improvement - they definitely need to be made stronger and with even better ventilation. But taking them off at any point during the race is not the answer.

Exactly. I don't see the point.

Also, jens, for future reference, if you want to start a discussion it might be a good idea not to belittle and ridicule all opinions that differ from your own.

Exactly. Or re-word the poll so that the choices are:

Yes, it's a brilliant idea.

No, I'm an idiot.

 

[Cobblestoned]

I missed "Hell, yeah ! You want them dead, don't you?"

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I thought that too. Until I tried a climb without helmet for the first time

As if I have never climbed w/o a helmet... Did the Ventoux without one and overheated, also did a ****load of climbs in Provence in july this year witheet helmet and I didn't overheat. Even though on those multiple ocassions it was well beyond 30 degrees celcius. Makes no difference whatsoever imo.

 

[Arnout]

As if I have never climbed w/o a helmet... Did the Ventoux without one and overheated, also did a ****load of climbs in Provence in july this year witheet helmet and I didn't overheat. Even though on those multiple ocassions it was well beyond 30 degrees celcius. Makes no difference whatsoever imo.

That's why its not mandatory not to wear them

 

[RedheadDane]

Because it looks better to see a riders head than to see a nose with a cauliflower and because it's still way more comfortable. The last point is from own experience of riding in the mountains, both with and without helmet uphill. And I own a helmet of the kind they also use in the pro peleton (the MET 2010 of Liquigas and Cofidis).

You know... it's really funny. I can still see the riders just fine. It is only the top part of the head which is covered by a helmet...

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I Must admit, one looks waaay cooler w/o a helmet

 

[Kiara is a rational girl]

I voted 'yes' because the riders are grown men, and I think it'd be more fitting if we treated them as such - and gave them the choice, MTF or otherwise.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yes! They're grown men but they're also role models. Having them wear helmets is a way of telling the children that "Look! The pros use them. How can wearing one be uncool then?"

And, yes! I know that a lot of people who cycle aren't actually cycling-fans...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

untrained people on regular bikes going to work ro whatever, who wear helmets should be kicked in all instances