Simeoni somewhat vindicated

Aug 12, 2010
63
0
0
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/simeoni-welcomes-landis-account-of-2004-tour-de-france

I was so pleased to read this article. Jesus Manzano, Christophe Bassons and Simeoni may be seen as martyrs to the cause of cleaner sport. They spit in the soup years ago, and deserve much credit.

This was one of the most revealing aspects of the Kimmage/Landis interview. Lance is as happy with his own success as when he can deprive others of success. I remember Lance taunting Landis on the climb up Brasstown Bald in the Tour of Georgia (maybe 2006?) when Lance's teammate won the race. Sure, they were on opposite teams that year, but Lance seems happiest when proverbially spiking the football in someone's face after a touchdown.
 
Aug 9, 2010
448
0
0
Someone asked what a good outcome would be from the ongoing investigation. For my part I'd like to see people like Bassons, Simeoni and the Andreus get some satisfaction, whatever form that takes.
 
Jun 15, 2009
8,530
0
0
... and i like that, when finally the truth comes out, our naive german Sportfans see that Ullrich was a scapegoat, but not the (only) dirty doper they call him in my country.
He can finally write his book without any fear.
 
May 14, 2010
5,306
2
0
pleyser said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/simeoni-welcomes-landis-account-of-2004-tour-de-france

I was so pleased to read this article. Jesus Manzano, Christophe Bassons and Simeoni may be seen as martyrs to the cause of cleaner sport. They spit in the soup years ago, and deserve much credit.

This was one of the most revealing aspects of the Kimmage/Landis interview. Lance is as happy with his own success as when he can deprive others of success. I remember Lance taunting Landis on the climb up Brasstown Bald in the Tour of Georgia (maybe 2006?) when Lance's teammate won the race. Sure, they were on opposite teams that year, but Lance seems happiest when proverbially spiking the football in someone's face after a touchdown.
I think that's a significant statement, and a significant trait of Armstrong's. It could explain a lot.

As for the OP: Simeoni never needed any vindication in my book. Still doesn't.
 
Mar 8, 2010
3,263
0
0
pleyser said:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/simeoni-welcomes-landis-account-of-2004-tour-de-france

I was so pleased to read this article. Jesus Manzano, Christophe Bassons and Simeoni may be seen as martyrs to the cause of cleaner sport. They spit in the soup years ago, and deserve much credit.

This was one of the most revealing aspects of the Kimmage/Landis interview. Lance is as happy with his own success as when he can deprive others of success. I remember Lance taunting Landis on the climb up Brasstown Bald in the Tour of Georgia (maybe 2006?) when Lance's teammate won the race. Sure, they were on opposite teams that year, but Lance seems happiest when proverbially spiking the football in someone's face after a touchdown.
Martyrs for a clean sport come out before they were caught.

I see another problem: How many footballs did Lance ever spike into Ullrich's face ?
Did you ever hear a serious bad word from Lance about Ullrich ? Or from Ullrich to Lance.
They always respected each other. It would be easy for Jan to whine about Lance now. It would have also been easy for Lance to whine about Ullrich after 2006.

You get my point ? That was just one example of ca. 1000 riders who never had any problem with Lance and respect him, or even like him.
Just these few lost souls.....the band.
Are all these other 1000s of riders idiots ?
Is McEwen bad now that Lance helped him ? Or is Lance bad now ?

Look, Lance is a good guy and helps/ed many people. Just don't f*** with him or you have a problem.

One thing is for sure: No one really likes Kameradenschweine or betrayers.
No one who is really honest.

Things start at a certain point. Not everyone sees theses points or they don't want to see them.
And on these points, the start and motives of a confrontation, I can understand Armstrong 100%.
If people get the script right and know all the details, they will understand most things Armstrong did.
That was mostly attacking defence after attacks.

Right now i wonder if the German journalist tell people in their articles, that Simeoni is a caught EPO-doper, when they praise Simeoni later today.

They often forget to mention that. Makes it easier for them. :D
 
May 14, 2010
5,306
2
0
Cobblestoned said:
Martyrs for a clean sport come out before they were caught.

I see another problem: How many footballs did Lance ever spike into Ullrich's face ?
Did you ever hear a serious bad word from Lance about Ullrich ? Or from Ullrich to Lance.
But Ulrich was always happy to knuckle under to Armstrong, to serve as his foil, to play second fiddle (eternally), and to openly acknowledge LA as the greatest cyclist in the sport. He made a good show of competing, but he never had any intention or expectation of anything better than second. Who wouldn't love a competitor like that?

I remember reading an interview with Ulrich by a German journalist who gently upbraided Ulrich for never having beaten Armstrong in the Tour and asking if that was because Armstrong was more disciplined about training. Ulrich's answer? He said that he (Ulrich) was indeed disciplined about training, that he showed up as fit as he could be, and, "I'm coming in second to the greatest cyclist in the world. I think that's pretty good." Then, as if for good measure, he added that no one beats Armstrong.



<snipped for brevity>Look, Lance is a good guy and helps/ed many people. Just don't f*** with him or you have a problem.

One thing is for sure: No one really likes Kameradenschweine or betrayers.
No one who is really honest.

Things start at a certain point. Not everyone sees theses points or they don't want to see them.
And on these points, the start and motives of a confrontation, I can understand Armstrong 100%.
If people get the script right and know all the details, they will understand most things Armstrong did.
That was mostly attacking defence after attacks.

Right now i wonder if the German journalist tell people in their articles, that Simeoni is a caught EPO-doper, when they praise Simeoni later today.

They often forget to mention that. Makes it easier for them. :D
Personally, I expect the patron to be a major p.rick and even a head case. Kind of goes with the territory. But that doesn't give the patron carte blanche to do whatever he likes, whenever he likes.
 
Manzano wasn't caught, he just decided to bring Belda down. I'm glad he succeeded.

Now, if people spoke out before getting caught, that'd be ideal, but speaking out after being caught is the next best thing and certainly better than deny deny deny omerta deny.
 
Cobblestoned said:
Martyrs for a clean sport come out before they were caught.

I see another problem: How many footballs did Lance ever spike into Ullrich's face ?
Did you ever hear a serious bad word from Lance about Ullrich ? Or from Ullrich to Lance.
They always respected each other. It would be easy for Jan to whine about Lance now. It would have also been easy for Lance to whine about Ullrich after 2006.

You get my point ? That was just one example of ca. 1000 riders who never had any problem with Lance and respect him, or even like him.
Just these few lost souls.....the band.
Are all these other 1000s of riders idiots ?
Is McEwen bad now that Lance helped him ? Or is Lance bad now ?

Look, Lance is a good guy and helps/ed many people. Just don't f*** with him or you have a problem.

One thing is for sure: No one really likes Kameradenschweine or betrayers.
No one who is really honest.

Things start at a certain point. Not everyone sees theses points or they don't want to see them.
And on these points, the start and motives of a confrontation, I can understand Armstrong 100%.
If people get the script right and know all the details, they will understand most things Armstrong did.
That was mostly attacking defence after attacks.

Right now i wonder if the German journalist tell people in their articles, that Simeoni is a caught EPO-doper, when they praise Simeoni later today.

They often forget to mention that. Makes it easier for them. :D
Why go after Simeoni and bully Bassons? What did Simeoni do to Lance?
 
Cobblestoned said:
Martyrs for a clean sport come out before they were caught.

I see another problem: How many footballs did Lance ever spike into Ullrich's face ?
Did you ever hear a serious bad word from Lance about Ullrich ? Or from Ullrich to Lance.
They always respected each other. It would be easy for Jan to whine about Lance now. It would have also been easy for Lance to whine about Ullrich after 2006.

You get my point ?
Most of us have got your point, ever since you turned up.
Omerta = Good = Respect.
Reform = Bad = Ridicule.

Have I missed anything?
 
Aug 9, 2010
448
0
0
TeamSkyFans said:
Simeoni, who do you think, Ghandi?
I was wondering who Jeff was....<facepalm>

EDIT: actually, what would Simeoni have on Lance that would be of value to Novitsky? He testified against Ferrari with information about his own doping plan, not his knowledge of anyone else.
 
Maxiton said:
But Ulrich was always happy to knuckle under to Armstrong, to serve as his foil, to play second fiddle (eternally), and to openly acknowledge LA as the greatest cyclist in the sport. He made a good show of competing, but he never had any intention or expectation of anything better than second. Who wouldn't love a competitor like that?

I remember reading an interview with Ulrich by a German journalist who gently upbraided Ulrich for never having beaten Armstrong in the Tour and asking if that was because Armstrong was more disciplined about training. Ulrich's answer? He said that he (Ulrich) was indeed disciplined about training, that he showed up as fit as he could be, and, "I'm coming in second to the greatest cyclist in the world. I think that's pretty good." Then, as if for good measure, he added that no one beats Armstrong.



Personally, I expect the patron to be a major p.rick and even a head case. Kind of goes with the territory. But that doesn't give the patron carte blanche to do whatever he likes, whenever he likes.
I believe Ullrich went into the Tour with the intention and hope of defeating Armstrong. To say that he started the Tour each year planning on doing his best to get to that 2nd step on the podium is simply ridiculous. He realized he was up against a formidable opponent but he also had to have some degree of hope each year that this would be the year. Keep in mind that Armstrong had virtually 7 years of good luck, with very few setbacks, unlike those that beset his "rivals".
 
Mar 8, 2010
3,263
0
0
Mellow Velo said:
Most of us have got your point, ever since you turned up.
Omerta = Good = Respect.
Reform = Bad = Ridicule.

Have I missed anything?
Well, I've got your point since I turned up here.
And this is not the right way to solve things.

You don't look like someone who wants to heal cycling - you only look like someone who hates Lance.
You can't win the fight with such people because they are dubious.
I doubt their motives.
When did YOUR fight against omerta and doping start ?
In fall 2008 again ?

BTW, running away and hiding for some time is not a solution. ;)
 
Cobblestoned said:
Well, I've got your point since I turned up here.
And this is not the right way to solve things.

You don't look like someone who wants to heal cycling - you only look like someone who hates Lance.
You can't win the fight with such people because they are dubious.
I doubt their motives.
When did YOUR fight against omerta and doping start ?
In fall 2008 again ?

BTW, running away and hiding for some time is not a solution. ;)
Cobblestoned, what would you do to solve the problem of doping in pro cycling? Do you agree it's a serious problem?
 
Oct 1, 2010
320
0
0
Cobblestoned said:
Martyrs for a clean sport come out before they were caught.

I see another problem: How many footballs did Lance ever spike into Ullrich's face ?
Did you ever hear a serious bad word from Lance about Ullrich ? Or from Ullrich to Lance.
They always respected each other. It would be easy for Jan to whine about Lance now. It would have also been easy for Lance to whine about Ullrich after 2006.

You get my point ? That was just one example of ca. 1000 riders who never had any problem with Lance and respect him, or even like him.
Just these few lost souls.....the band.
Are all these other 1000s of riders idiots ?
Is McEwen bad now that Lance helped him ? Or is Lance bad now ?

Look, Lance is a good guy and helps/ed many people. Just don't f*** with him or you have a problem.

One thing is for sure: No one really likes Kameradenschweine or betrayers.
No one who is really honest.

Things start at a certain point. Not everyone sees theses points or they don't want to see them.
And on these points, the start and motives of a confrontation, I can understand Armstrong 100%.
If people get the script right and know all the details, they will understand most things Armstrong did.
That was mostly attacking defence after attacks.

Right now i wonder if the German journalist tell people in their articles, that Simeoni is a caught EPO-doper, when they praise Simeoni later today.

They often forget to mention that. Makes it easier for them. :D
According to Dan Coyle, Lance Armstrong referred to Jan Ullrich as a chump. I think his words were "...these chumps you want to call my rivals..." referring to Ullrich's tendency to get out of shape (relatively speaking) over the winter. Now maybe referring to someone as a "chump" is not a serious bad word but it does indicate a certain lack of respect.

In public, of course, it was all "Ullrich is the most talented cyclist out there...the only one who truly scares me, blah, blah blah" but in private it was a different story.
 
It would be great to have Lance's current explanation for riding up to Simeoni, and whether he can acknowledge that the act and the explanation at the time are incredibly damning in light of the investigation and landis' statements.
 
Cobblestoned said:
Well, I've got your point since I turned up here.
And this is not the right way to solve things.

You don't look like someone who wants to heal cycling - you only look like someone who hates Lance.
You can't win the fight with such people because they are dubious.
I doubt their motives.
When did YOUR fight against omerta and doping start ?
In fall 2008 again ?

BTW, running away and hiding for some time is not a solution. ;)
Simeoni dubious motives? Really? Do explain.

Fighting the omerta has the first requisite of being a part of the system. For those not within, it's not their job. Now it's up to the feds. I'm sure they'll see to it.
 
Angliru said:
I believe Ullrich went into the Tour with the intention and hope of defeating Armstrong. To say that he started the Tour each year planning on doing his best to get to that 2nd step on the podium is simply ridiculous. He realized he was up against a formidable opponent but he also had to have some degree of hope each year that this would be the year. Keep in mind that Armstrong had virtually 7 years of good luck, with very few setbacks, unlike those that beset his "rivals".
I'd also add, as most of you who have been around for awhile know, that during those 7 years of 'good luck', LA also had a supercharged team that surrounded him specifically to protect him and ride him into the front. Ullrich, with all his spectacular talent, really never had the dedicated team help on that scale, and was many times left alone to fend for himself.
And, without the obsessive 'killer instinct' that LA possessed, Jan admitted that sometimes he didn't care if he came in second....his fault may have been that he was just 'too nice' of a guy and sportsman.
 
Bassons speaks:

“To me, courage is all about overcoming fear, and I was never scared. I was just lucky - I’d had a balanced upbringing, lots of love in my life, and no void which made me want to dope. Refusing to take drugs was easy for me, whereas other people have things missing in their lives which mean that’s not the case. Doping is always a response to a void, a need – whether it’s for money, or success, or love, or something else. That’s why it’s a mistake to fight the war on doping in terms of health – because, if you actually analyse it, doping responds to a need there too, because you can be healthier doing the Tour de France on drugs than without anything.”

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bassons-wont-judge-landis-and-armstrong

Bassons says that, while the public, media and authorities view doping in terms of “legal” and “illegal”, an athlete will often superimpose his own ideas of what is legitimate and what is not. Landis, for example, told Kimmage that, for him, doping was a means – the only means in a sport allegedly riddled with corruption – to realize a Tour de France dream.

“I don’t know why Landis had that dream, why he needed that, or indeed why he lied for all those years – you’d have to look at his upbringing, his values – but there’s always something behind it,” Bassons argued.

“Everyone has their own sense of legitimate and illegitimate, which is different from what is licit and illicit. For example, I might think it’s legitimate to drive my car at 90kph in an 80kph zone, if me being late means that my son will walk out into the school playground and not see his dad. For Richard Virenque, doping was legitimate because, for some reason, he needed the love and admiration of the public. For some riders from Eastern Europe it’s legitimate because they need money for their families – which is hard to condemn. Or a teenager might take steroids and go to the gym to pump iron because he’s uncomfortable with his body. In that case, doping serves his need – it perpetuates it too, but as far as the kid is concerned it solves his particular problem…”
 
Jun 21, 2010
308
0
0
Lance's stunt with Simeoni was real jerk behavior. Unsurprising that Simeoni is enjoying Lance's current situation. So goes the world of hyper competitive, petty, vindictive sportsmen. If these personalities were not driven by various psychological demons, they would never ride a bike competitively.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY