Simeoni somewhat vindicated

[Dr. Maserati]

I got Lance right.

He meant that Ullrich didn't "really" wait till a certain point and that is also what the pictures tell. Lance was right.
Ask Tyler and watch the videos.
Immediately waiting looks different.
Why did Tyler wave ?

I think Ullrich later even said that he hesitated with waiting because it would have been his chance and that it broke his rhythm then. Finally he waited - that is what counts.

Can you provide a link to that Ullrich comment?

I have seen the video many times (as we discussed it here before) and if Ullrich didn't wait then how is it dropped riders like Tyler managed to get back on in the first place? Lance was back on within a minute and a half of falling.

Their is a parallel between what Lance said immediately after the Simeoni chasedown and Ullrich waiting and a very different story he said many months later.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Link please?

 

[Cobblestoned]

Right, I see your points with regards the likes of Simeoni, Jaksche, Sella and Sinkewitz.

But Bassons? What reforming did he need to do? When did he ever get caught? Enlighten me!

You can call Bassons a martyr if you want.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Can you provide a link to that Ullrich comment?

I have seen the video many times (as we discussed it here before) and if Ullrich didn't wait then how is it dropped riders like Tyler managed to get back on in the first place? Lance was back on within a minute and a half of falling.

Their is a parallel between what Lance said immediately after the Simeoni chasedown and Ullrich waiting and a very different story he said many months later.

dottore, he waited but he hesitated with his decision. But his "instinct" and Rudy then told him to wait. It's here in his book. I stood up and looked for it - extra for you.

"This is the Tour, Jan, think about what you are doing here exactly ."

We are talking about perhaps 10-15 seconds here.
Tylers group came close because Ullrich had to brake before. They finally came back all together when Ullrich finally really waited 100%.

Yes, Lance made many things clear later. Most of it in this long long interview with his mates.

 

[Mambo95]

Simeoni was no martyr. He was a convicted doper with a taste for attention seeking. He rode as a pro until he was 38, at about his level, so he didn't lose out at all.

What Armstrong did wasn't right, but let's not make Simeoni out to be some sort of hero. He wasn't.

 

[Sanitiser]

If Armstrong is the devil- Landis, Simeoni must be saints, no?

 

[Sanitiser]

If Lance is the devil; Landis and Simeoni must be saints, no?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Would be cool if Ulle wrote a book. With ALL the TRUTH. Really a shocking think. C'mon Ulle! 1+1!!

He will. When the 8 years are over, Lance is finally convicted, he has nothing to fear anymore.

He will come clean and feel free like FL now + he needs money for just another baby to feed.

And finally i am reliefed too. Since 1999 i watched every TdF with anger. Since 2006 with complete hate: The good guy was sacrificed and the bad one bribed the UCI and played with his Fans getting rich out of cheating masses and cancer patients... Germany murdered a whole sport (even tough there are dirtier ones like Soccer. OMG, all that hypocrisy in german media...)

 

[The Hitch]

If Armstrong is the devil- Landis, Simeoni must be saints, no?

No. If armstrong is the devil, Landis is Paul the apostle. 2006 positive being the road to damascus moment. Presumably Lemond jesus of Nazareth. Or maybe Lemond is God , and Kimmage is the nazarene.

Betsy Andreu is obviously Mary

 

[Elagabalus]

dottore, he waited but he hesitated with his decision. But his "instinct" and Rudy then told him to wait. It's here in his book. I stood up and looked for it - extra for you.

"This is the Tour, Jan, think about what you are doing here exactly ."

We are talking about perhaps 10-15 seconds here.
Tylers group came close because Ullrich had to brake before. They finally came back all together when Ullrich finally really waited 100%.

Yes, Lance made many things clear later. Most of it in this long long interview with his mates.

Thanks for that I hadn't heard that before. So Rudy Pévenage told Jan to wait-what a loser?!! I always thought Jan should have attacked and I was even a marginal Armstrong fan back then. See this is why we need to get rid of all those old-guard types. Not only do they condone and propagate doping with a wink and a nod but they also, paradoxically, stifle the racing with all their medieval unwritten rules.

 

[BotanyBay]

dottore, he waited but he hesitated with his decision. But his "instinct" and Rudy then told him to wait. It's here in his book. I stood up and looked for it - extra for you.

"This is the Tour, Jan, think about what you are doing here exactly ."

We are talking about perhaps 10-15 seconds here.
Tylers group came close because Ullrich had to brake before. They finally came back all together when Ullrich finally really waited 100%.

Yes, Lance made many things clear later. Most of it in this long long interview with his mates.

Ulrich should have kept the same tempo. There was no guarantee that Lance could have rejoined. See, this is where race radios have messed things up. In the old days, the tactic would have been simple. Keep motoring. Don't fall. Stay away from the fans. Sometimes life's a beotch. If you can argue that Ullrich should have waited, then Lance shouldn't have attacked upon rejoining. As he passed everyone, he was probably thinking "Thanks guys!".

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I got Lance right.

He meant that Ullrich didn't "really" wait till a certain point and that is also what the pictures tell. Lance was right.
Ask Tyler and watch the videos.
Immediately waiting looks different.
Why did Tyler wave ?

I think Ullrich later even said that he hesitated with waiting because it would have been his chance and that it broke his rhythm then.
Finally he waited - that is what counts.

Oh yes he waited. I remember it as if it was yesterday. Looking back a hundred times until Armstrong finally got back on his bike after two tries. OMG, i feel the pain again: I was about to throw the TV out of the Bar. If Ullrich was just a little bit like me (in the selfish way i mean; talent he got 1000 times then me), he would have attacked. 2003, it was his year. Ullrich was just too nice.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Simeoni was no martyr. He was a convicted doper with a taste for attention seeking. He rode as a pro until he was 38, at about his level, so he didn't lose out at all.

What Armstrong did wasn't right, but let's not make Simeoni out to be some sort of hero. He wasn't.

Simeoni may not be an especially heroic character, but it is a shame that he got chastised and spat at for doing what many a rider has done in the past (attempt a breakaway), that Gilberto Simoni had to go round team owners begging them to give him a ride for the next year, and that Lancechen bears grudges so long that he didn't get to wear his Italian national champion's jersey in the Giro. Pippo Pozzato was endlessly mocking him on Twitter until the day he retired - September 26 2009: "I hope to win, too, but vaffanculo to Betfair.com for 31/1! Filippo Simeoni should have those odds - if he wasn't ****." September 15 2009: "I am happy of the inclusion of Visconti, too, who is good for going in escape early at Mendrisio. Good no Simeoni ever again too. Yawn"

Simeoni's career was hardly ended by the incident, but he's sure had to pay for it in pettiness since.

 

[Mambo95]

and that Lancechen bears grudges so long that he didn't get to wear his Italian national champion's jersey in the Giro.

That's a bit of myth really. He's team just wasn't good enough. It was ranked below all the teams that did ride.

The National jersey isn't a free ticket to the Giro any more than the rainbow jersey is a free ride to the Tour (ask Cipo). Simeoni typically made himself out to be the big victim though.

 

[Neworld]

What are you talking about ?

Did you ever have a look at the T-Mobile squads ?

Should they have worked for Lance in yellow ?
Well, when Lance had yellow, USPS had to work.
T-Mobile was all out on Ullrich. They only had Zabel with them who worked on his own or with little support. That was all.

Maybe you've ridden over too many cobblestones...

In 1996 and 1997 Ullrich led out Zabel. In the early years against LA he rarely had an escort in the mountains against 2 or 3 charged Posties. Please don't even try to talk about Ullrich's powerful (laughing) 2003 Bianchi team. In the German media Ullrich was portrayed as a captain with all the resources but that just wasn't the case. Talk about the TTTs where LA always had a packed team to win, with time bonuses, and put Ullrich into 2nd place from the onset.

Anyway this is about Simeoni who's life was irrevocably changed/damaged by LA's actions that day. Do you work? What if your highest boss slandered you in a professional forum? Think about it.

I hope Simeoni is invited to the Federal court date where Lance has to describe his actions on the bike with Simeoni. When asked later that day what he thought of the Feds questioning LA Simeoni would be heard saying, "what could you expect from a drug taking, lying bully? I will forgive him when he publicly admits to me his wrong doing."

NW

 

[flicker]

So, your answer is do nothing and just accept things as they are because they can't be fixed.

Is that, or is it not, your response tothe question: "Cobblestoned, what would you do to solve the problem of doping in pro cycling?"

I edited your post for brevity. If I cut something out that you feel shouldn't have been then feel free to point it out.

I understand Cobblestone the way my son listened to NICO sing in English.

He said she was singing in another language and she was, some faraway industrial city in Germany singing the blues in her own compelling yet detatched from the earth way, she was singing in English but she was really singing in German about Hamburg.

MacRoadie, drugs are not something you can put your finger on. You will never stick your finger in the dike of drug abuse and stop it.

Only a change of consciousness can stop drugs, a conscious choice for the better.

We can whine and kick and finger point, but truly change only begins in an individual. We are like ants also we are always smelling and checking things out, and when a good change happens we can all follow it.

The answer is we all want clean sports and that is why we write here....

 

[Cobblestoned]

Maybe you've ridden over too many cobblestones...

In 1996 and 1997 Ullrich led out Zabel. In the early years against LA he rarely had an escort in the mountains against 2 or 3 charged Posties. Please don't even try to talk about Ullrich's powerful (laughing) 2003 Bianchi team. In the German media Ullrich was portrayed as a captain with all the resources but that just wasn't the case. Talk about the TTTs where LA always had a packed team to win, with time bonuses, and put Ullrich into 2nd place from the onset.

Anyway this is about Simeoni who's life was irrevocably changed/damaged by LA's actions that day. Do you work? What if your highest boss slandered you in a professional forum? Think about it.

I hope Simeoni is invited to the Federal court date where Lance has to describe his actions on the bike with Simeoni. When asked later that day what he thought of the Feds questioning LA Simeoni would be heard saying, "what could you expect from a drug taking, lying bully? I will forgive him when he publicly admits to me his wrong doing."

NW

Maybe I rode too much cobblestones, but it was worth it.

But I think the possibility is high that you were riding cobblestones while reading what this guy and me were talking about.
You start talking about 1996,1997 and 2003 now.
This guy was trying to tell that Ulle always had to ride on his own @T-Mobile and didn't have support.

USPS won TTTs only in 2004, 2005 when Ullrich was at T-Mobile, and if you watch the gaps that didn't change anything in final result. If Ullrich was perhaps leading after TTT, Armstrong would have bonked him anyway.

Both were strong teams that improved over the years. USPS was a little bit stronger and totally focused. But T-Mobile and Ullrich were focused too.
What you saw in 2006 was the hight of evolution.

And yes, I will never doubt that Ullrich got all he wanted and that everyone did what he said. If he said something.
No doubt that Bianchi squad was poor - but that is not Lance's fault.We all know why that happened. Strange that it was Ulle's best performance with his poor team - to add that Armstrongs performance was not 100% in 2003.
Well, when I read your poor Ullrich and bad Lance comments - I don't have to read the rest of the Simeoni trauma.

 

[Iker_Baqueiro]

I'd just like to comment on one thing. Ulrich was in no obligation to wait for Armstrong. It's not an honorable thing to do. That was just plain foolish. Life is about that: The mistakes of some are the opportunites of others.

 

[Race Radio]

That's a bit of myth really. He's team just wasn't good enough. It was ranked below all the teams that did ride.

The National jersey isn't a free ticket to the Giro any more than the rainbow jersey is a free ride to the Tour (ask Cipo). Simeoni typically made himself out to be the big victim though.

No, it is not a myth. Zomegnan essentially confirmed it as did Eki. No way that Xacobeo-Galicia should have gotten in ahead of Ceramica Flaminia. They did zero the entire race.

 

[Angliru]

Thanks for that I hadn't heard that before. So Rudy Pévenage told Jan to wait-what a loser?!! I always thought Jan should have attacked and I was even a marginal Armstrong fan back then. See this is why we need to get rid of all those old-guard types. Not only do they condone and propagate doping with a wink and a nod but they also, paradoxically, stifle the racing with all their medieval unwritten rules.

If I remember correctly, Paul and Phil were critical of Mayo for attacking after the crash....a crash that was caused by Armstrong riding too close to the fans on the side of the road AND that took Mayo down with him. This was an example of their blind devotion.

 

[dodgyknee]

No. If armstrong is the devil, Landis is Paul the apostle. 2006 positive being the road to damascus moment. Presumably Lemond jesus of Nazareth. Or maybe Lemond is God , and Kimmage is the nazarene.

Betsy Andreu is obviously Mary

excellent!
apart from armstrong not likely to have a road to damascus moment.....

 

[Granville57]

If one watches (searched for link, could not find) footage of the interview with Armstrong (WCP DVD) immediately after Stage 18, following questions and jokes (even the media is amused) about his tactics on the road that day, he is asked, point blank, about rumors that he tried to influence Simoeni's DS to leave him off the TdF roster that year.

Armstrong's tone quickly changes as he emphatically and nervously denies such allegations. He then goes on to say, (I'm only slightly paraphrasing here) "I don't even have a say as to who gets chosen for my team."
As if.

His body language and tone of voice convey more than his words. Is this definitive "proof" of anything? No. But for that matter, I also can't "prove," in a internet forum, that dipping into a bathtub with a toaster is a bad idea either.

 

[fatandfast]

Simeoni is vindicated because Landis said to chase him down was immoral? We he be given the stage win? His break would have stuck just ask him

 

[Cobblestoned]

No, it is not a myth. Zomegnan essentially confirmed it as did Eki. No way that Xacobeo-Galicia should have gotten in ahead of Ceramica Flaminia. They did zero the entire race.

It is and stays a myth. Whatever you want to read into some comments.
Can you read the other way too ?
I don't think so. Impossible.

Who could know that Mosquera got injured or ill ?
I don't remember exactly what he had, but I am at least able and can read so much into everything, that I can mention Mosquera's absence.
No one really cared about Ceramica or Simeoni - except the usual suspects and the whiner himself. That laughable won jersey is no free ticket to Giro.
Others were left out earlier and no one cared. But if it is Simeoni usual suspects care.
He is a tool.
This joke even complained about Lance not putting in a good word for him. lol

 

[Polish]

No, it is not a myth. Zomegnan essentially confirmed it as did Eki. No way that Xacobeo-Galicia should have gotten in ahead of Ceramica Flaminia. They did zero the entire race.

Zomegnan can snub whoever he feels like. Its his race.
Ceramica Flaminia in 2009.
Or Radio Shack in 2010.
Who will he snub this year?

BTW, RadioShack could have won the Giro in 2010.
Could Ceramica Flaminia have won in 2009? Doubt it.