Sky & Astana Train vs No Garmin Train

[masking_agent]

Have we just witnessed the new ways, new forms of doping in the peloton in the likes of Astana, Sky, Evans, Gesink, vs the lack of doping by Garmin ?

I know Garmin took a real stance on "clean" riding, so is this the result of it ? no riders up in the top mountains to help or even do what Uran did , take over leadership ?

 

[DirtyWorks]

As posted elsewhere, IMHO it's that the 2012 Sky punishment was a signal that it was okay to dope to ridiculous levels again. You can't kill yourself with blood thickening dope, but lots of other options available.


Example: 2004's version of "rail thin" versus 2013 "normal."

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/50324725645/the-rail-thin-phonak-rider-started-the-vueltas

I'll give Ryder the benefit of the doubt. If he managed to waste away like that without dope, he's now learned, the hard way, why it will never work for a grand tour. Most humans cannot be that skinny and keep generating the power required for a grand tour. I'm not sure why this nugget was lost as it is almost as old as bicycle racing.

 

[masking_agent]

As posted elsewhere, IMHO it's that the 2012 Sky punishment was a signal that it was okay to dope to ridiculous levels again. You can't kill yourself with blood thickening dope, but lots of other options available.


Example: 2004's version of "rail thin" versus 2013 "normal."

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/50...ed-the-vueltas

I'll give Ryder the benefit of the doubt. If he managed to waste away like that without dope, he's now learned, the hard way, why it will never work for a grand tour. Most humans cannot be that skinny and keep generating the power required for a grand tour. I'm not sure why this nugget was lost as it is almost as old as bicycle racing.

sorry the link goes to nowhere ? Can you find another link ?

 

[Lanark]

Did they decide this after last year's Giro, or did the other teams only start doping after that?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Astana does not dope you silly people

 

[Big Doopie]

Nibali is the scariest. Guy has been connected to Ferrari since being a young pro. Then he goes to Astana. There is literally no way that f$&ker is anything but doped to the gills. What a freakin joke the giro now is.

 

[William H]

Eh, losing 21 minutes isn't something that happens just because you're not doping. He's sick or something.

And of course Garmin were quite capable of delivering a whupping to the field in L-B-L.

 

[DirtyWorks]

sorry the link goes to nowhere ? Can you find another link ?

Sorry, it got truncated somehow.

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/50324725645/the-rail-thin-phonak-rider-started-the-vueltas

Lanark,
No idea. At the 2012 TdF they were putting the hurt on and it was ridiculous. Other stage races were seeing some extraordinary results. Olympics RR and TT were ridiculous.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Eh, losing 21 minutes isn't something that happens just because you're not doping. He's sick or something.

And of course Garmin were quite capable of delivering a whupping to the field in L-B-L.

If he's on bread and water, it would mean, to me, that he (Ryder specifically) peaked too early. But, that's just me and I only know from personal trial and error.

Maybe he is sick. Lots of possibilities.

 

[maxmartin]

Have we just witnessed the new ways, new forms of doping in the peloton in the likes of Astana, Sky, Evans, Gesink, vs the lack of doping by Garmin ?

I know Garmin took a real stance on "clean" riding, so is this the result of it ? no riders up in the top mountains to help or even do what Uran did , take over leadership ?

SKY started, other team bound to catch up. Please vote in " will you see the drop of performance from SKY" thread.

 

[hrotha]

What Astana train? Agnoli? What BMC and Blanco trains?

There's only one train in the WT peloton and that's the Sky train.

 

[gooner]

Aru was surprisingly bad today. Only Tangert has shown really anything and he was struggling towards to the backend of the stage.

Nibali leading at the moment is in spite of his team.

 

[hfer07]

Have we just witnessed the new ways, new forms of doping in the peloton in the likes of Astana, Sky, Evans, Gesink, vs the lack of doping by Garmin ?

I know Garmin took a real stance on "clean" riding, so is this the result of it ? no riders up in the top mountains to help or even do what Uran did , take over leadership ?

FOA- I didn't see an "Astana train"- It was Agnoli pulling after SKYborgs blew up
setting the pace for Wiggo until Rigo took off....

So SKY train-Yes
Astana Train-I don't think so...

Evans was OK but not stellar to say he's found a new dope to make him better-Gesink isn't making the cut anymore....
Garmin not doping? are you kidding? they just got this Giro wrong since day One- that's all.

 

[Big Doopie]

Nibali hardly opening his mouth.

Nibali sprinting back with ease after a mechanical.

Nibali doesnt need a team when he has Ferrari.

 

[Ferminal]

So he wasn't doping last year?

 

[the sceptic]

So he wasn't doping last year?

He is only doping when he beats sky.

 

[whittashau]

Nibali hardly opening his mouth.

Nibali sprinting back with ease after a mechanical.

Nibali doesnt need a team when he has Ferrari.

We get it. Ryder isn't going well so you need to make yourself feel better by making out the other riders to be cheats. There is no reason to believe that Nibali is more likely of being a cheat than Ryder except if you believe that all Italians are inherently dirty or something. There is nothing exceptional from my eyes from Nibbles. It seems to be natural progression as he was a talented youngster and now he's a talented rider during what should be his peak years.

As for being linked to Ferrari. Name me a rider that couldn't be linked back to someone with doping links?

 

[maxmartin]

We get it. Ryder isn't going well so you need to make yourself feel better by making out the other riders to be cheats. There is no reason to believe that Nibali is more likely of being a cheat than Ryder except if you believe that all Italians are inherently dirty or something. There is nothing exceptional from my eyes from Nibbles. It seems to be natural progression as he was a talented youngster and now he's a talented rider during what should be his peak years.

As for being linked to Ferrari. Name me a rider that couldn't be linked back to someone with doping links?

Amen, can't said it better myself.

 

[Big Doopie]

We get it. Ryder isn't going well so you need to make yourself feel better by making out the other riders to be cheats. There is no reason to believe that Nibali is more likely of being a cheat than Ryder except if you believe that all Italians are inherently dirty or something. There is nothing exceptional from my eyes from Nibbles. It seems to be natural progression as he was a talented youngster and now he's a talented rider during what should be his peak years.

As for being linked to Ferrari. Name me a rider that couldn't be linked back to someone with doping links?

Puhleeze. Natural progression from what? When he was seeing Ferrari basically as a neo pro. How do we know what his natural progression is?

There is only one reason to go to Ferrari. One only. Nibali made that decision early on. I just love the fact that he gets a completely free pass from everyone here when his record tells us he is a huge cheat. If mick rogers rode up Today's mtf without opening his mouth wearing the pink jersey, this place would implode. Mick Rogers is dirty. Went to Ferrari. Same as nibali. Y the double standard.

And the next person who makes some f@&ked up dumba$$ connection between me saying that nibali is as dirty as they come and some anti-Italian bias should get banned. I'm talking about nibali and nibali only. I'm not saying anything about anyone else. And if anyone had ever followed my history of posting and not react because what they want to believe i said they'd know where i stand. So seriously shut the f up with your stupid dumba$$ accusations.

The terrible thing of a nibali win is just like Armstrong it tells all the cyclists that they had better sign up with Ferrari. Because they all know nibali's connection. Just like they did Armstrong's.

 

[observer]

Puhleeze. Natural progression from what? When he was seeing Ferrari basically as a neo pro. How do we know what his natural progression is?

There is only one reason to go to Ferrari. One only. Nibali made that decision early on. I just love the fact that he gets a completely free pass from everyone here when his record tells us he is a huge cheat. If mick rogers rode up Today's mtf without opening his mouth wearing the pink jersey, this place would implode. Mick Rogers is dirty. Went to Ferrari. Same as nibali. Y the double standard.

And the next person who makes some f@&ked up dumba$$ connection between me saying that nibali is as dirty as they come and some anti-Italian bias should get banned. I'm talking about nibali and nibali only. I'm not saying anything about anyone else. And if anyone had ever followed my history of posting and not react because what they want to believe i said they'd know where i stand. So seriously shut the f up with your stupid dumba$$ accusations.

The terrible thing of a nibali win is just like Armstrong it tells all the cyclists that they had better sign up with Ferrari. Because they all know nibali's connection. Just like they did Armstrong's.

what are Nibali's connections with Ferrari, and how does it compare with someone else with links, like Cadel? do you think they are still ongoing or do you think he has found someone else to administer "training plans"?

 

[whittashau]

Puhleeze. Natural progression from what? When he was seeing Ferrari basically as a neo pro. How do we know what his natural progression is?

There is only one reason to go to Ferrari. One only. Nibali made that decision early on. I just love the fact that he gets a completely free pass from everyone here when his record tells us he is a huge cheat. If mick rogers rode up Today's mtf without opening his mouth wearing the pink jersey, this place would implode. Mick Rogers is dirty. Went to Ferrari. Same as nibali. Y the double standard.

And the next person who makes some f@&ked up dumba$$ connection between me saying that nibali is as dirty as they come and some anti-Italian bias should get banned. I'm talking about nibali and nibali only. I'm not saying anything about anyone else. And if anyone had ever followed my history of posting and not react because what they want to believe i said they'd know where i stand. So seriously shut the f up with your stupid dumba$$ accusations.

The terrible thing of a nibali win is just like Armstrong it tells all the cyclists that they had better sign up with Ferrari. Because they all know nibali's connection. Just like they did Armstrong's.

Nibali refutes suggestions that he had anything to do with Ferarri. I'm not going to pretend like I know either way, just like you shouldn't pretend like you know what the truth is either. It could be true, and if it is I hope the truth comes out, but from what I see it looks like sour grapes.

I did look at your post history and you seemed happy and excited about Ryder's success in the early stages, and soon as he turned to crap you've turned to the clinic to voice your displeasure about Nibali. And only about Nibali. Harping back to old claims that he refuted and then sued about years ago, and then trying to substantiate said claims by attacking how open, or closed in this case that his mouth is.

Honestly you're looking pretty stupid here. Perhaps you don't have some type of nationalistic bias, but unless you have something to bring to the table other than "his mouth is closed, and he's always been doped so you can't tell that he is doped"? I think you should just stop.

So I guess unless you can show that his neon-pro days showed some spike around the time that he allegedly associated with the Dr. or if you can find out what Vino is slipping into his drinks at night then this is a little pointless because he looks to everyone without an agenda like someone who has always been talented and therefore doesn't seem any more or less likely to be doped than anyone else.

 

[hrotha]

Oh come on, I love Nibali as a rider but the links with Ferrari are there. Bertagnolli said pretty much everyone who mattered at Liquigas worked with him, and he was seen riding with Ferrari following behind. It's not proven, I suppose, but come on.

 

[coinneach]

Oh come on, I love Nibali as a rider but the links with Ferrari are there. Bertagnolli said pretty much everyone who mattered at Liquigas worked with him, and he was seen riding with Ferrari following behind. It's not proven, I suppose, but come on.

Yes, and choosing to ride for Astana?

 

[Cramps]

So he wasn't doping last year?

He wasn't with Astana last year

 

[Ferminal]

What is that supposed to mean?