Sky & Astana Train vs No Garmin Train

[Cramps]

What is that supposed to mean?

Astana's history is not a good one

 

[Ferminal]

Neither is Roberto Amadio's. Nibali worked with Ferrari circa 2009-2010, then decided to stop doping 2011-2012, but began again upon joining Astana in 2013?

All without any significant change in performance since he became an elite contender in 2010.

Pretty sure Nibali sorts himself out.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Neither is Roberto Amadio's. Nibali worked with Ferrari circa 2009-2010, then decided to stop doping 2011-2012, but began again upon joining Astana in 2013?

All without any significant change in performance since he became an elite contender in 2010.

^^this.

Nibali is riding at the same level as he was at the 2012 Tour. Nibali has not improved, Wiggins has tanked. Ryder has Daewoo'd.

 

[taiwan]

Astana has changed hands though. Wasn't it formed out of Liberty Seguros, then it was USPS (i.e. Bruyneel), now it's Vino's team?

 

[Cramps]

Neither is Roberto Amadio's. Nibali worked with Ferrari circa 2009-2010, then decided to stop doping 2011-2012, but began again upon joining Astana in 2013?

All without any significant change in performance since he became an elite contender in 2010.

Granting that the Giro TT may have suited him, do you find his TT performance a significant improvement?

 

[SundayRider]

^^this.

Nibali is riding at the same level as he was at the 2012 Tour. Nibali has not improved, Wiggins has tanked. Ryder has Daewoo'd.

This. Evans looks not quite as bad as 2012 Tour but not quite as good as 2011 somewhere in the middle. Wiggins yesterday would have happened in the Tour last year if Froome had been on a different team or had been allowed to attack.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Puhleeze. Natural progression from what? When he was seeing Ferrari basically as a neo pro. How do we know what his natural progression is?

versus

Now, do tell me wich one looks more like progression. Or do they look kinda the same? With peaks and all?

Nibali is riding at the same level as he was at the 2012 Tour. Nibali has not improved, Wiggins has tanked. Ryder has Daewoo'd

Uran on the other hand notched up a gear.

Granting that the Giro TT may have suited him, do you find his TT performance a significant improvement?

He lost around one and a half minute on the 18 kilometres flat part to Wiggins, that is relatively more than in last years 52K TT where he lost 3 minute 38. Not even mentioning the first TT there.

Oh come on, I love Nibali as a rider but the links with Ferrari are there. Bertagnolli said pretty much everyone who mattered at Liquigas worked with him, and he was seen riding with Ferrari following behind. It's not proven, I suppose, but come on.

Ferrari power versus swimming coaches and rice cookies.

 

[Ferminal]

Granting that the Giro TT may have suited him, do you find his TT performance a significant improvement?

Hmm well he still got smoked by a sub-prime Wiggins on flat/straight part. He lost at a rate of 1 min per 20km this year, last year in the Tour final ITT it was 1 min per 15km so nothing huge taking Wiggins' suffering into account. There aren't any good markers in that ITT, I mean Scarponi was only 30 seconds behind.

In any case such an improvement in ITT isn't without precedent. Contador taking out Cancellara in Annecy was a new level for him. It's far from Wiggins dominating 4 long ITTs in 2012 without having won one in his entire career up to that point. Purito has definitely improved in the past 18 months.

 

[Big Doopie]

versus

Now, do tell me wich one looks more like progression. Or do they look kinda the same? With peaks and all?

Uran on the other hand notched up a gear.He lost around one and a half minute on the 18 kilometres flat part to Wiggins, that is relatively more than in last years 52K TT where he lost 3 minute 38. Not even mentioning the first TT there.Ferrari power versus swimming coaches and rice cookies.

How many times do you have to be told I am not talking about wiggins. Not comparing anybody to wiggins. And yet everyone is fixated on saying "well, wiggins is worse". I don't care. I'm talking about a guy tied to THE doping doctor of all time riding for a team with a proven long history of systemic blood doping is winning the giro. This is horrendous news for cycling.

There is absolutely nothing we can know about nibali's "natural" progression because from very early in his career he went to Ferrari. So I don't give a f&@k how many graphs you show me because the data, all the data, is fraudulent. Have you heard of Coyle's "scientific" appraisal of Armstrong.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I especially didnt put names there - so it clearly is not Wiggins - but feel free to take a deep breath and come back when your roid rage has passed.

Too bad your hero got a bad day yesterday.

 

[Parrulo]

Big doopie if you continue to insult people like this you will be banned

 

[webbie146]

Neither is Roberto Amadio's. Nibali worked with Ferrari circa 2009-2010, then decided to stop doping 2011-2012, but began again upon joining Astana in 2013?

All without any significant change in performance since he became an elite contender in 2010.

Pretty sure Nibali sorts himself out.

I hope Nibali is still visiting Ferrari. If sky dope like crazy Nibali should do too. He should get the full Ferrari program and kick ***.

 

[Netserk]

Despite the graph I think Nibali had a relatively stable progression. Showing a lot of talent all up until '08, and in '09 he was the 4th strongest in the mountains in the Tour. In '10 he had a lot of luck to score so many points. His '11 Giro was comparable to his two GTs in '10. Perhaps a little stronger in '11, but against stronger opponents. He was not that much stronger in '12 Tour, but improved some in the classics (steadily). He has definitely improved this year. IMO his biggest improvements have been from '08 -> '09 and '12 -> '13.

But overall steady progression (despite what one might read from the CQ-graph).

Can't say the same about Hesjedal...

 

[Zam_Olyas]

The Astana train at Trentino was weak and looks like they have some sort of a sort of train today, it would still be weak imo ..like the liquigas pseudo train of last year.

 

[The_Captain]

I hope Nibali is still visiting Ferrari. If sky dope like crazy Nibali should do too. He should get the full Ferrari program and kick ***.

This really sums up the crux of the problem and why the UCI are the main problem with cycling today. There is no trust in the system. Whether or not Sky are doping or not, if other riders or teams assume that they are then it leads to the mentality that they must dope to beat them. It's probably human as well - it's much easier to think that someone beat you (or your favourite rider in the case of the clinic) by cheating than to have to admit they were just better than you.

One would think that the UCI wouldn't be so stupid as to repeat some of the mistakes made with Lance (although with McQuaid in charge you can never really be sure) but the fact that there aren't any measures in place to prevent tests being covered up etc unfortunately make it impossible to discount the possibilities.

 

[goggalor]

Now Cav's dropping our boy! I tell ya, these Euros are on sumthin'!

 

[whittashau]

^^this.

Nibali is riding at the same level as he was at the 2012 Tour. Nibali has not improved, Wiggins has tanked. Ryder has Daewoo'd.

At the same level? He looks like he has improved to me, or is it just easier for you to believe that everyone else is just doing less than their best?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

The Astana train at Trentino was weak and looks like they have some sort of a sort of train today, it would still be weak imo ..like the liquigas pseudo train of last year.

The Astana train barely managed to get rid of Cav on the first climb today. No depth and pedestrian pace, pretty easy to derail at the business end too.

Still there are dopers on the team, just like any other team in the peloton, including Garmin.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

The Astana train barely managed to get rid of Cav on the first climb today. No depth and pedestrian pace, pretty easy to derail at the business end too.

Still there are dopers on the team, just like any other team in the peloton, including Garmin.

Of course there are, i was merely talking about the train.

 

[Big Doopie]

I hope Nibali is still visiting Ferrari. If sky dope like crazy Nibali should do too. He should get the full Ferrari program and kick ***.

Problem with that logic is that Nibali was seeing Ferrari BEFORE Sky even existed.

In other words there is no logic. You are clearly a devoted fan of doped fraudulent racing. Good for you.

 

[Big Doopie]

Big doopie if you continue to insult people like this you will be banned

Seriously? But those who called me a racist can go on posting their stupidity. What is this The Daily Peloton?

Lol.

 

[Big Doopie]

Despite the graph I think Nibali had a relatively stable progression. Showing a lot of talent all up until '08, and in '09 he was the 4th strongest in the mountains in the Tour. In '10 he had a lot of luck to score so many points. His '11 Giro was comparable to his two GTs in '10. Perhaps a little stronger in '11, but against stronger opponents. He was not that much stronger in '12 Tour, but improved some in the classics (steadily). He has definitely improved this year. IMO his biggest improvements have been from '08 -> '09 and '12 -> '13.

But overall steady progression...

Omg. How many different ways do you need this explained to you?

He was seeing Ferrari already in 2009. How do you think he kept up with known dopers Armstrong, Schlecklet and Clentadopucci? Lol.

If he's already doping with Ferrari in 2009 any data that you show is completely devoid of any meaning and corrupted.

Seriously, are you all the same bunch that kept saying Armstrong seeing Ferrari was benign?

How did that turn out for you?

Rotflmao!

 

[Netserk]

Do I think he is a doper? Yes. From before '09? Yes.

Doesn't exclude that his progression has been steady.

 

[Big Doopie]

Do I think he is a doper? Yes. From before '09? Yes.

Doesn't exclude that his progression has been steady.

But it DOES mean that your observation is therefore completely devoid of meaning.

Not much to base an argument on.

Cheers. Thanks very much.

 

[Netserk]

Do you think his progression has been steady or not? Simple question.