Sky/Froome Talk Only (No Way Sky Are Cleans?)

[the sceptic]

They explained that it was because he didn't train. Bailsford gave a story of how he would call Wiggins up and Wiggins would be in bed watching tv.

Must be the same thing that is happening to Rogers now. They dont train at saxo and it shows.

 

[Franklin]

They explained that it was because he didn't train. Bailsford gave a story of how he would call Wiggins up and Wiggins would be in bed watching tv.

Wiggins was using a modern training method, copying AC's 2008 Giro campaign!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Heaven help us if Marianne Vos ever finds out about "marginal gains." She may get a speeding ticket climbing Ventoux.

 

[taiwan]

I suspect the 2011 Giro won't let you go in 10 years ago too.

it isn't so actually. as far as i remember someone was doing analytical comparison. The difference between editions was the Etna stage in terms of hardness. If this turns the hardest GT into walk in the park, I give up

Um this post makes no sense. Just saying.

 

[The Hitch]

Um this post makes no sense. Just saying.

Have any of airstream's posts ever made any sense?

 

[airstream]

Have any of airstream's posts ever made any sense?

lol Hitch your haughtiness makes me laugh. Do you have anything to object substantively on the Giro 11 and Giro 12, but 'walk in the park'?

 

[diorgen]

I wish people would stop quoting him

 

[thehog]

I think the breaking point was the spring of 2009. He was beaten by Contador in a time trial that should have been ideal for Wiggins. It was a stage Wiggins had targeted as a season goal. He was practically crying afterward. Not long after, the transformation.

Paris-Nice 2009.

The penny finally dropped.

Only one way to win at this game.

Can't beat 'em. Join 'em.

They've probably gone too far now. With th entire team and the Dawg. But they needed a program to compete.

"It is a surprise for me to win, especially given the specialists out there and given it was a flat course. I am certainly not the world's best time-triallist. I think the explanation today is that I just felt good,” Contador said.

 

[maltiv]

I guess only EBH and Flecha(mostly clapping skills) trained well in 2010

Don't forget Löfkvist.

Weirdly enough, all of those who did well in 2010 didn't improve at all with the new training programs and marginal gains

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Don't forget Löfkvist.

Weirdly enough, all of those who did well in 2010 didn't improve at all with the new training programs and marginal gains

Very. Interesting. And Wiggo himself actually went backwards from 2009.

 

[ebandit]

strange?

Weirdly enough, all of those who did well in 2010 didn't improve at all with the new training programs and marginal gains

is it so strange that riders doing well would have less margin for improvement?

others ask why did team sky not sign soler from barloworld as he was the most able rider?

team sky were looking for riders they could develop

of course the ongoing question here.............is how?

Mark L

 

[Armchaircyclist]

is it so strange that riders doing well would have less margin for improvement?

others ask why did team sky not sign soler from barloworld as he was the most able rider?

team sky were looking for riders they could develop

of course the ongoing question here.............is how?

Mark L

--------------
Would you say that a young rider like EBH had less potential for improvement through marginal gains, than the older Wiggins and Froome ?

Strange how sky basically claims no other teams were training right, that should leave all their riders with great potential for improvement from the start, no matter how good they were before sky.
Maybe the scandinavians EBH and Løvkvist could not be trusted to go on the program, who knows. I thought EBH was going to Tenerife this year, but it seems like it did not help.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

--------------
Would you say that a young rider like EBH had less potential for improvement through marginal gains, than the older Wiggins and Froome ?

Strange how sky basically claims no other teams were training right, that should leave all their riders with great potential for improvement from the start, no matter how good they were before sky.
Maybe the scandinavians EBH and Løvkvist could not be trusted to go on the program, who knows. I thought EBH was going to Tenerife this year, but it seems like it did not help.

He went there but became unwell.

 

[ebandit]

--------------
Would you say that a young rider like EBH had less potential for improvement through marginal gains, than the older Wiggins and Froome ?

Strange how sky basically claims no other teams were training right

yes! an under performing wiggo / froome can improve more

team sky concentrate talk on what they do themselves

Mark L

 

[thehog]

yes! an under performing wiggo / froome can improve more

team sky concentrate talk on what they do themselves

Mark L

The French teams have been stuck in the traditional methods of training since 1999.

They are aware of the scientific methods of training but refuse to use them.

They prefer traditional methods of under performing.

 

[SundayRider]

They explained that it was because he didn't train. Bailsford gave a story of how he would call Wiggins up and Wiggins would be in bed watching tv.

what a talent, doesn't train well yet still picks up 23rd at the Tour.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Froome's 2011 contract myth:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/editions/second-edition-cycling-news-tuesday-august-30-2011

August 30, 2011, 12:37
By: Cycling News
Team Sky facing competition to retain Kenyan

Chris Froome’s outstanding performance at the Vuelta a España has sparked interest from several major teams who are all keen to sign the Kenyan-born Briton if he decides to leave Team Sky.

Froome has ridden strongly for Bradley Wiggins in the first week of the Vuelta but then overshadowed his team leader by beating him in the Salamanca time trial and taking the race leader’s red jersey. He now leads Jakob Fuglsang of Leopard Trek by 12 seconds, with Wiggins third at 20 seconds.

“I’m really happy for Chris, his career has been transformed overnight. He’s also tripled his contract value,” his agent Alex Carera told Cyclingnews, clearly looking to boost his rider’s value.

“I’ve been his agent for three years and always believed he could do well in stage races. But there was always something that stopped him performing at his very best.”

Froome and Carera has been in talks with Team Sky since July about a new contract for 2012 but the British team has been dragging its heels as it undergoes a significant evolution to its line-up for 2012. Mark Cavendish is widely expected to join the British team, sharing team leadership with Bradley Wiggins. That could leave little room for Froome if he goes on to prove his stage racing ability at the Vuelta.

“Chris would love to stay at Team Sky for next year but two teams were very interested in him before the Vuelta and after taking the lead, two other teams have contacted me,” Carera said.

“His future in the WorldTour is secure because a major Dutch team, a US squad and a leading European team have all shown interest. A French team is also keen to sign him.”

Team Sky manager Dave Brailsford told Cyclingnews that Froome would stay at the team in a 2012 but refused to give further details on if and when a deal would be reached.

http://www.procycling.de/de/vorschau/104/1

Als zwölf Monate zuvor sein Zwei-Jahres-Vertrag mit Sky ausgelaufen war, hatte er wenig Erfolge auf dem Konto, einen geringen Marktwert und nur zwei bescheidene Angebote für die kommende Saison auf dem Tisch. Sein Agent Alex Carera erinnert sich: „Wir hatten konkrete Angebote von Garmin und Cofidis. Ich fragte Chris vor der Vuelta, was er denkt, wie er fahren würde, und er sagte, er fühle sich gut, also warteten wir ab. Damals sprach Sky auch von einer Verlängerung des Vertrags - aber nur für rund 100.000 Euro. So, wie die Vuelta sich entwickelte, waren wir in der Tat sehr froh, gewartet zu haben.“
=
Than twelve months before his two-year contract had expired with Sky, he had little success in the account, a low market value, and only two humble offers for the coming season on the table. His agent Alex Carera recalls: "We had concrete offers from Garmin and Cofidis. I asked Chris before the Vuelta, what he thinks, how he would go, and he said he was feeling good, so we waited. Back then, Sky also spoke of a renewal of the contract - but only for about 100,000 euros. Just as the Vuelta developed, we were to have in fact very happy waiting for. "

You offer 100.000 euros to the future of clean cycling? Seems the graph of Brailsford on his riders was not so far of with regards to Froome.

 

[thehog]

Froome's 2011 contract myth:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/editions/second-edition-cycling-news-tuesday-august-30-2011



http://www.procycling.de/de/vorschau/104/1


You offer 100.000 euros to the future of clean cycling? Seems the graph of Brailsford on his riders was not so far of with regards to Froome.

That's funny! The Dawg was going to ride at Cofdis just like Wiggo.

He rolled the dice and came up trumps.

Doping pays.

 

[The Hitch]

Has pentacycle seen that? Doesn't quite look like bailsford always new froome to be a major gc talent.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Has pentacycle seen that? Doesn't quite look like bailsford always new froome to be a major gc talent.

There's a perfectly reasonable excuse coming from Pentacycle any time now.

That's a great post FGL.

 

[Pentacycle]

Has pentacycle seen that? Doesn't quite look like bailsford always new froome to be a major gc talent.

^^Nicele predicted by DW

That's not strange at all considering his results. But there's more to why they didn't let him go just yet. I didn't know about that article in German though, very interesting.

It actually confirms most of the things I said previously, if true of course.

 

[armchairclimber]

The French teams have been stuck in the traditional methods of training since 1999.

They are aware of the scientific methods of training but refuse to use them.

They prefer traditional methods of under performing.

This is probably true of Tommy Voeckler

 

[thehog]

This is probably true of Tommy Voeckler

It's true of all teams except Sky.

They're the only team using scientific methods for training.

Other teams just got out on 5 hour rides four times a week

That's it.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

This one could also be posted in the Wiggins Cadence topic but I seem not to be able to find it.

There is this thing:
http://www.cyclingpowerlab.com/ProRaceAnalysis.aspx

Tour de France 2012
prologue

1 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) RadioShack-Nissan (1.86,82) 0:07:13 0.22 511Watts 6.23w/k 2320
2 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Procycling (1.9,69) 0:07:20 0.227 489watts 7.08w/k 2154
3 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Omega Pharma-QuickStep (1.82,70) 0:07:20 0.221 479 6.84 2169
4 Tejay van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team (1.85,69) 0:07:23 0.223 474 6.86 2122
5 Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor) Sky Procycling (1.81,73) 0:07:24 0.219 467 6.4 2134
6 Brett Lancaster (Aus) Orica GreenEdge Cycling Team (1.88,78) 0:07:24 0.223 479 6.14 2150
7 Patrick Gretsch (Ger) Argos - Shimano (1.87,69) 0:07:25 0.225 470 6.82 2094
8 Denis Menchov (Rus) Katusha Team (1.8,65) 0:07:26 0.221 458 7.04 2071
9 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) BMC Racing Team (1.79,67) 0:07:26 0.22 457 6.82 2081
10 Andriy Grivko (Ukr) Astana Pro Team (1.8,67) 0:07:28 0.22 453 6.76 2056
11 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling (1.86,69) 0:07:29 0.224 458 6.64 2046
36 Richie Porte (Aus) Sky Procycling (1.72,62) 0:07:35 0.216 423 6.83


Tour de France second TT
1 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Sky Procycling (1.9,69) 1:04:13 0.227 479watts 6.95w/k 2114
2 Christopher Froome (GBr) Sky Procycling (1.86,69) 1:05:29 0.224 451watts 6.53w/k 2013
3 Luis Leon Sanchez Gil (Spa) Rabobank Cycling Team (?,?) 1:06:03
4 Peter Velits (Svk) Omega Pharma-QuickStep (1.81,65) 1:06:15 0.222 430 6.62 1941
5 Richie Porte (Aus) Sky Procycling (1.72,62) 1:06:38 0.216 413 6.66 1909
6 Patrick Gretsch (Ger) Argos - Shimano (1.87,69) 1:06:41 0.225 431 6.25 1919
7 Tejay van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team (1.85,69) 1:06:47 0.223 427 6.19 1914
8 Vasili Kiryienka (Blr) Movistar Team (1.83,72) 1:06:59 0.221 423 5.87 1914
9 Rein Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne (1.86,70) 1:07:03 0.224 424 6.06 1897
28 Denis Menchov (Rus) Katusha Team (1.8,65) 1:08:41 0.221 391 6.01 1768

Assuming these numbers are correct I notice several things.

Wiggins:
* 7 minutes effort: 489watts
* 64 minutes effort: 479watts

Froome:
* 7 minutes effort: 458watts
* 65 minutes effort: 451watts

Van Garderen:
* 7 minutes effort: 474watts
* 67 minutes effort: 427watts

Menchov:
7 minutes effort: 458watts
69 minutes effort: 391watts

Porte:
* 7 minutes effort: 423watts
* 66 minutes effort: 413watts

So, Sky riders loosing at max 2% power over an effort almost 10 fold, other riders clearly loosing 10-15%. the odd duck being the duck from Jose Taus's club, Velits.

Lets move on to the Olympics:
1 Bradley Wiggins (Great Britain) (1.9,69) 0:50:39 0.227 478 6.92
2 Tony Martin (Germany) (1.86,75) 0:51:21 0.222 458 6.11
3 Christopher Froome (Great Britain) (1.86,69) 0:51:47 0.224 446 6.46

And then over to the World TT:
1 Tony Martin (Germany) (1.86,75) 0:58:38 0.222 451 6.01

Since Martin had a mechanical at the prologue that cost him at least 20 to 25 seconds we have no real comparison for his drop of.
45 Tony Martin (Ger) Omega Pharma-QuickStep (1.86,75) 0:07:36 0.222 443watts 5.9

He would have come in around the time of Cancellara, wattage must have been in the 485-495 range.
So, the best TT'er of the last few years also looks to have a dropoff of around 10% on efforts 10 fold a prologue but the Skyboys not?

 

[armchairclimber]

It's true of all teams except Sky.

They're the only team using scientific methods for training.

Other teams just got out on 5 hour rides four times a week

That's it.

Tommy is quite innovative actually. He checks which way the wind is blowing before he sets off.