Sky/Froome Talk Only (No Way Sky Are Cleans?)

[hrotha]

So if Sky are doping, how do you explain Lofkvist?

Almost everybody at HTC performs at a higher level than anywhere else.

 

[daveinzambia]

I was thinking about this given how much talk there is about Froome in particular and realised i do not really understand how the doping would work.

i always thought of doping as something for a one off massive performance. so a world champions time trial or that miraculous post rest day recovery.

so the implication here is that for a rider to consistently perform the way he is day after day he is doping every day of the tour? or is this something he has used to assist in training to reach this level. My understanding was that while current testing is far from perfect it is able to reduce the amount of doping a rider can do.

just wondering what a rider would be doing.

I personally still choose to believe he is clean but decided i should be open minded enough to try and understand what others think he is actually doing.

 

[goggalor]

I do not trust Wiggins one bit. Not that long ago he was practically crying when Contador beat him in a short, flat prologue that he thought was perfect for his track experience. Then came The Transformation (tm). He went from the laughing group to the front group in mountain stages. I also do not trust these riders that get injured, take a few weeks off, and suddenly are back in form as though they never took a day off. It just does not make sense.

This, pretty much. I find the entire transformation just ridiculous. I have since 2009. I don't for a second believe Froome's metamorphosis either. That is some serious turning-a-donkey-into-a-racehorse sh*t.

 

[sniper]

Vincente Belda, the manager of the now defunct Kelme team, said of the Angliru back in 2003: "What do they want? Blood? They ask us to stay clean and avoid doping and then they make the riders tackle this kind of barbarity."

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blog/blazin-saddles/article/2799/

I guess today's stage will be a good yard stick.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Could someone bring some more light on this mysterious 'blood illness' that Froome had around the time of the TDS? Because for such an apparently serious illness he seems to have recovered very well.

Yates seems to have learnt well from Hog.

 

[Anonymous]

Could someone bring some more light on this mysterious 'blood illness' that Froome had around the time of the TDS? Because for such an apparently serious illness he seems to have recovered very well.

Yates seems to have learnt well from Hog.

its not a mysterious blood illness at all. It was Schistosomiasis.

Basically a parasite related illness that is fairly easily treatable but can go undetected for a while. Also known as bilharzia its fairly common in Africa, in fact its incredibly common.

So not really mysterious at all, and not particularly serious either. The short term effects are serious, but like the flu or something, it doesnt have a massive long term impact on your health

Mysterious blood illness sounds like the sort of line a journalist has used to make it sound really serious. common parasitic infection is nearer the mark.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

And to be honest, even if we say mysterious blood illness, it's actually more of a case for him not being doped to the eyeballs than a case for him being obviously doped to the eyeballs, because if it went undetected for a while it could explain the lengthy down-patch where he didn't really develop as a rider, and explain why he never progressed from his 2008 Tour performance until last weekend when he suddenly turned into a better time triallist than Wiggins and Cancellara and a better climber than Nibali, Scarponi or Rodríguez.

It's still fishy, but it gives a plausible reason for him being better. Maybe not THIS much better, but certainly better.

 

[Hors-Catégorie]

There was once a time when Bradley Wiggins was not even considered a top Grand Tour rider. Nor would any one have even imagined that he would become one. His TT abilities have never been in question though.

But how did he develop into such a good climber ?

At the 2005 Giro riding for Crédit Agricole he finished 123 overall.
At the 2006 Tour riding for Cofidis he finished 124 overall.
At the 2007 Tour again riding for Cofidis he was forced to withdraw after team-mate Christian Moreni failed a drugs test.
At the 2008 Giro riding for Team High Road he finished 134 overall.

Then in 2009 his performances improve riding for Garmin-Slipstream. 71st at the Giro. And a 4th position finish at the Tour. Behind Armstrong, Schleck and Contador.

In 2010 riding for Team Sky he finishes 40th at the Giro and 24th at the Tour.

This Year he wins the Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré.

Now at the 2011 Vuelta he sit's on top of the general classification ( prior to today's stage finishing at the Alto de l'Angliru )

At the 2008 Tour Chris Froome riding for Barloworld finishes 84th overall.

At the 2009 Giro again riding for Barloworld Chris Froome finishes 36th overall.

At the Tour Of Switzerland this Year Chris Froome finishes 47th overall 42' 30" behind the winner.

Now at the 2011 Veulta Chris Froome lies in 2nd position overall. Prior to Today's stage.

 

[Larry Finnegan]

There was once a time when Bradley Wiggins was not even considered a top Grand Tour rider. Nor would any one have even imagined that he would become one. His TT abilities have never been in question though.

But how did he develop into such a good climber ?

At the 2005 Giro riding for Crédit Agricole he finished 123 overall.
At the 2006 Tour riding for Cofidis he finished 124 overall.
At the 2007 Tour again riding for Cofidis he was forced to withdraw after team-mate Christian Moreni failed a drugs test.
At the 2008 Giro riding for Team High Road he finished 134 overall.

Then in 2009 his performances improve riding for Garmin-Slipstream. 71st at the Giro. And a 4th position finish at the Tour. Behind Armstrong, Schleck and Contador.

In 2010 riding for Team Sky he finishes 40th at the Giro and 24th at the Tour.

This Year he wins the Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré.

Now at the 2011 Vuelta he sit's on top of the general classification ( prior to today's stage finishing at the Alto de l'Angliru )

At the 2008 Tour Chris Froome riding for Barloworld finishes 84th overall.

At the 2009 Giro again riding for Barloworld Chris Froome finishes 36th overall.

At the Tour Of Switzerland this Year Chris Froome finishes 47th overall 42' 30" behind the winner.

Now at the 2011 Veulta Chris Froome lies in 2nd position overall. Prior to Today's stage.

Because the instance of doping among riders has dropped? Just a thought, that for some reason nobody wants to entertain here.

 

[Hors-Catégorie]

Because the instance of doping among riders has dropped? Just a thought, that for some reason nobody wants to entertain here.

Yes. While I was writing out the above post that thought did spring to mind. A levelling out in the playing field. So to speak.

 

[pmcg76]

There was once a time when Bradley Wiggins was not even considered a top Grand Tour rider. Nor would any one have even imagined that he would become one. His TT abilities have never been in question though.

But how did he develop into such a good climber ?

At the 2005 Giro riding for Crédit Agricole he finished 123 overall.
At the 2006 Tour riding for Cofidis he finished 124 overall.
At the 2007 Tour again riding for Cofidis he was forced to withdraw after team-mate Christian Moreni failed a drugs test.
At the 2008 Giro riding for Team High Road he finished 134 overall.

Then in 2009 his performances improve riding for Garmin-Slipstream. 71st at the Giro. And a 4th position finish at the Tour. Behind Armstrong, Schleck and Contador.

In 2010 riding for Team Sky he finishes 40th at the Giro and 24th at the Tour.

This Year he wins the Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré.

Now at the 2011 Vuelta he sit's on top of the general classification ( prior to today's stage finishing at the Alto de l'Angliru )

At the 2008 Tour Chris Froome riding for Barloworld finishes 84th overall.

At the 2009 Giro again riding for Barloworld Chris Froome finishes 36th overall.

At the Tour Of Switzerland this Year Chris Froome finishes 47th overall 42' 30" behind the winner.

Now at the 2011 Veulta Chris Froome lies in 2nd position overall. Prior to Today's stage.

Not defending Wiggins here, merely highlighting something relevant, up until 2008 Wiggin's main focus was the Olympic games pursuit and he then changed his focus to the road thereafter. His transformation has still been amazing though.

 

[Larry Finnegan]

Yes. While I was writing out the above post that thought did spring to mind. A levelling out in the playing field. So to speak.

Exactly. It's a very plausible explanation, but not a popular one I think. Can't think why!

 

[Larry Finnegan]

Not defending Wiggins here, merely highlighting something relevant, up until 2008 Wiggin's main focus was the Olympic games pursuit and he then changed his focus to the road thereafter. His transformation has still been amazing though.

If Wiggins had been a sprinter, track or road, with the build of Chris Hoy the transformation would be questionable. He's obviously not. So a change in training methods/ goals + weight loss + levelling of playing field re less doping could account for big improvements. Not to mention that the times for the climbs don't come near some of the superhuman efforts of past years.

 

[hrotha]

We don't have any examples of confirmed clean transformations to act as a measuring stick, so we have no idea how much progress a clean Wiggins could make. Still, the improvement was so massive and the history of the sport is so dark it's only natural to remain highly skeptical.

 

[Larry Finnegan]

http://bikepure.org/2010/07/lemond-publishes-anti-doping-proposals/

Was talking about this here the other day. Check out the link above.

 

[Larry Finnegan]

We don't have any examples of confirmed clean transformations to act as a measuring stick, so we have no idea how much progress a clean Wiggins could make. Still, the improvement was so massive and the history of the sport is so dark it's only natural to remain highly skeptical.

Skepticism is healthy.

 

[Magnus]

Wiggins climbing like the second coming of Armstrong.

No.

Unless by second coming you mean '09 but in that case Wiggins did that in '09.

 

[oldcrank]

I haven't read many of the posts on this pathetic thread,
nor an I going to, so I don't know if anyone has mentioned
that Garry Wiggins smuggled amps in Bradley's nappy back
in the day so that is proof Wiggo is putting cream in his
coffee. Yer, like father, like son, no doubt about it, mate.

 

[Polish]

And to be honest, even if we say mysterious blood illness, it's actually more of a case for him not being doped to the eyeballs than a case for him being obviously doped to the eyeballs, because if it went undetected for a while it could explain the lengthy down-patch where he didn't really develop as a rider, and explain why he never progressed from his 2008 Tour performance until last weekend when he suddenly turned into a better time triallist than Wiggins and Cancellara and a better climber than Nibali, Scarponi or Rodríguez.

It's still fishy, but it gives a plausible reason for him being better. Maybe not THIS much better, but certainly better.

It would not be the first time a cure has brought a transformation.

Because the instance of doping among riders has dropped? Just a thought, that for some reason nobody wants to entertain here.

Is the playing field more level when only 5% are doping or 95% doping?

 

[Larry Finnegan]

I haven't read many of the posts on this pathetic thread,
nor an I going to, so I don't know if anyone has mentioned
that Garry Wiggins smuggled amps in Bradley's nappy back
in the day so that is proof Wiggo is putting cream in his
coffee. Yer, like father, like son, no doubt about it, mate.

Can't call it pathetic if you haven't read it all, got to give it all a go, tough going at times.

 

[oldcrank]

Can't call it pathetic if you haven't read it all

Yes I can, mate. In fact, I already have.

 

[Larry Finnegan]

Yes I can, mate. In fact, I already have.

Fair enough.

 

[luckyboy]

Maybe we'll see a repeat of this is Sky catch Cobo

That could work for Sky or Geox today I suppose

 

[Larry Finnegan]

We don't have any examples of confirmed clean transformations to act as a measuring stick, so we have no idea how much progress a clean Wiggins could make. Still, the improvement was so massive and the history of the sport is so dark it's only natural to remain highly skeptical.

Taking the times Wiggins and others in question have done in previous years when they were finishing way down the field and presumably racing clean and comparing them with the times they are now producing is a good comparison, making allowance for motivation, weather, equipment improvement etc. The 'sod this' factor of being pummeled by Armstrong, Basso, Ullrich and the rest has to be considered too.

 

[Larry Finnegan]

Maybe we'll see a repeat of this is Sky catch Cobo

That could work for Sky or Geox today I suppose

I don't understand this post, can you explain a bit better?