Sky is an Embrrassment

[Ryo Hazuki]

it definetely looks bad for sky's gt future: henao and uran. but I assume cavendish will dig his own grave as he's already working on that this year. he seems to climb worse than ever for a start

 

[Stingray34]

Say, wasn't Boonen suppose twin win the green jersey at le Tour by now?

Yep, and he did in 2007.

Did Sarah Connor burn your hard drive? Be careful, the T1000 is coming for you

 

[euanli]

Cavendish threads never fail to delight

 

[Angliru]

I think you are being a bit melodramatic Terminator!

A bit??? Isn't that his calling card? Especially with all the usual CAPITAL LETTERS to emphasize his point.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

but he's the terminator!!

 

[Angliru]

but he's the terminator!!

Sometimes I think he feels he has to live up to his name by posting such over-the-top stuff. Always with a great deal of drama.

 

[Anonymous]

just what this forum needs. ANOTHER Cavendish/Sky thread.



what was wrong with the other one on the front page?
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=14051

its like start a thread week this week.

 

[euanli]

Just payed 4 bloody € for internet. Ok, cheap, but can't connect as 'too many concurrent users online.' Bet it's @teamsky downloading porn.

All isn't so rosey in the Cav-Sky camp

 

[FignonLeGrand]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...ehind-skys-first-attempt-to-attract-cavendish

Rumors are that Cavendish will be riding for Sky next year since High Road will lose HTC as a sponsor.

What sane team acquires a sprinter and GC rider on the same team when the structure and goal of such a team would have counter-productive goals in literally every single major race?

What will happen in the Tour de France when Sky shows up with a team that completely trashes itself so its GEICO Caveman can get some meaningless sprint stage wins and the stupid Green Lantern jersey while Wiggins' GC goal requires the entire team to save its energy on the flat stages in order to help the anorexic sissy when the road goes up?

Sky is turning out to be a real embarrassment to professional cycling and I'm about 5 minutes away from taking a redeye flight into Heathrow, kicking in the door of Sky's marketing director and telling him to fire David Brailsford.

You don't see that bald headed doper Riis looking for a sprinter to ride with Clentador in the Tour, do you? You never saw Bruyneel looking to acquire Robbie McEwen or Pettachi 10 years ago, did you?

By the way, everyone knows that Cavemen's best sprinting days are behind him and that if you want to completely ruin a sprinter's ability to win races, give him a huge contract so he can move to Monaco, get some 19 year old girlfriend, and start a coke habit. Say, wasn't Boonen suppose twin win the green jersey at le Tour by now?

Worst post ever, idiot. Don't fight it just let the robots take over.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

All isn't so rosey in the Cav-Sky camp

Find a dictionary and look up 'sarcasm'

 

[Galic Ho]

I think you are being a bit melodramatic Terminator!

No he isn't. You are the one being silly. Remember the two Aussies on the same team in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008? Your the biggest fanboy of one of them. Now note their objectives.

Wigans is no Evans. FFS fools read the damn threads you lot bicker on regarding Cav's supposed new deal with Sky. ACF you made a comment about how ridiculous the reports were that Cav if he had signed/would sign his remuneration and new salary would only be on par with Wigans. Then extrapolate and carry on the base market assumptions that gives. You only pay a guy equal if he is as good, aka, you are going to give him the same opportunities. Natural conclusion is this means both will have goals and history has shown something has to give. Economic wise this is ridiculous and everyone of you calling Terminator stupid...well I don't have to ask, you probably count using your fingers and toes, meaning go back to school and learn to add. Financially this is really dumb, a theme talked about for over two years now in regards to Wigans contract. But most people around here have short memories. Really ACF94, how dumb are you dude? Drop out of the Biology lectures and drop by the Economics department next time your at uni. You will learn something in the first 10 minutes that is relevant in every market known to man.

In 2009 we all assumed Wigans was getting a million pounds/Euro. What was the figure floated for Cav? 1.5 million something! One rider is worth it the other ain't. Wigans won't just bow down and be told, you can have the role of Michael Rogers at HTC and Kim Kirchen. The psuedo go to GC guy who is left to fend for himself, maybe with aid of Martin and Siutsov if they still have legs. What does this mean? They are both supported...again, repeating myself, look at history. Evans and McEwen couldn't pull it off. One left. Now assume Sky can, but how? Spending more money on guys who will forsake their own ambitions to help one of the two clowns? Bahahaha. The guys who joined Sky mostly left HTC to get away from Frodo and have a chance. Yes Terminator is the fool LMAO!

Terminator is right, this is madness. Sky cannot support both a green jersey contender and Wigans. As I said, he is no Evans. Most consider him a joke around here GC wise. Schleck, Contador, Basso and even Nibali would gobble him up for breakfast as a candidate. But wait, lets hire Cav and support both. Stupid and ridiculous. One has to go or be told to target something else. For my money I'd tell Wigans the Tour is off the cards and 2011 is his last shot. This could work, heck it could even explain his winning the Dauphine while he can...he might know next year he won't get support. But wait it gets better. They way the rumours are heading Sky will look a lot on paper like HTC did a few years back. All the old crew back together. Give me a break. I should correct myself...Frodo ain't no green jersey winner. He quits when the climbing starts or gets a tow, meaning he's lucky to finish. Wigans is no GT GC potential winner/podium spot candidate. The team composition screams go for stage wins. But then again they are Brits and I like a good laugh at Sky's expense. Bring it on, I'll be laughing my **** off when Wigans goofs up or does the BS PR trick (like he pulled last week on how he suddenly when to altitude and got some extra climbing ability) that the masses buy without questioning.

Teams cannot split duties and not take a hit stamina wise. Cav needs his train. Period. The last 4 years have shown this. Breakaways aren't pulled back by one rider. Sky should forgo jerseys and just focus on wins in stages. Send a breakaway ahead or let Cav win. Wigans should be left to fend for himself and told to go for ITT wins. Think I'm wrong and Terminator is off his rocker. Nobody called out one nutter yesterday in the Cav moving to Sky thread who suggested Sky could have not only Wigans and Cav going for their objectives, but that EBH would have enough juice left to stage hunt. Get out goofball. Not in this day and age. All I have seen from HTC is good riders left out to dry simply because the aim is Cav. Lots of those guys joined Sky to have a chance now it's looking like Cav will join and those ambitions will be shot. Terminator is right, if this is the case the managers should be fired if Cav is signed and they plan on supporting both him and Wigans. You wasted a lot of years and money for squat. Why? Because those guys already there can't go for their own goals and pull Frodo around a GT as well then back up Wigans in the hills.

 

[spalco]

Find a dictionary and look up 'sarcasm'

maybe you aren't the right person to give advice about sarcasm.

 

[euanli]

I think thats what we call irony chaps.

Also if you keep repeating "Cav needs a sprint train" then it might eventually become true. People have become too used to seeing HTC on the front chasing down breaks.

 

[Anonymous]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...ehind-skys-first-attempt-to-attract-cavendish

Rumors are that Cavendish will be riding for Sky next year since High Road will lose HTC as a sponsor.

What sane team acquires a sprinter and GC rider on the same team when the structure and goal of such a team would have counter-productive goals in literally every single major race?

What will happen in the Tour de France when Sky shows up with a team that completely trashes itself so its GEICO Caveman can get some meaningless sprint stage wins and the stupid Green Lantern jersey while Wiggins' GC goal requires the entire team to save its energy on the flat stages in order to help the anorexic sissy when the road goes up?

Sky is turning out to be a real embarrassment to professional cycling and I'm about 5 minutes away from taking a redeye flight into Heathrow, kicking in the door of Sky's marketing director and telling him to fire David Brailsford.

You don't see that bald headed doper Riis looking for a sprinter to ride with Clentador in the Tour, do you? You never saw Bruyneel looking to acquire Robbie McEwen or Pettachi 10 years ago, did you?

By the way, everyone knows that Cavemen's best sprinting days are behind him and that if you want to completely ruin a sprinter's ability to win races, give him a huge contract so he can move to Monaco, get some 19 year old girlfriend, and start a coke habit. Say, wasn't Boonen suppose twin win the green jersey at le Tour by now?

What GC rider do they have?...Wigans?...Please don't tell me that dream is still alive...unless you consider a guy who is top 15 at best a "GC" guy...

 

[spalco]

Teams cannot split duties and not take a hit stamina wise. Cav needs his train. Period. The last 4 years have shown this.

Actually Cavendish has shown that he doesn't necessarily needs a train to win, many times in fact and on the biggest stage possible, the Champs-Elysees. Certainly it helps, but it's not required.

And really, who gives a **** about the green jersey? It's become nothing but a consolation prize for the lesser sprinter, or maybe it's always been that way, I don't know. No rider in his right mind would trade winning 4-6 TdF stages, as Cavendish has done in the last three years, for the green jersey. Yeah, it's nice, but it's not that nice.

eta:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4tr_l3z9Yg

 

[Richeypen]

I cant believe that such an obvious trolling post has received so many replies.

 

[Mambo95]

Nobody called out one nutter yesterday in the Cav moving to Sky thread who suggested Sky could have not only Wigans and Cav going for their objectives, but that EBH would have enough juice left to stage hunt. Get out goofball. Not in this day and age.

I believe I was that nutter. I'll explain it in simple terms telling you what every rider does. I'll use current Sky riders + Cav as examples, but I expect they be hiring.

1. Wiggins - GC leader
2. Uran - Mountain domestique
3. Lofqvist/Xandio - Mountain domestique. Wiggins isn't Contador, he doesn't need his team hammering on the front on climbs. He just needs a couple of supporters to help hang on.

4. Cavendish - Sprinter
5. Henderson - Lead out 1: 700m-250m
6. Thomas - Lead out 2: 1.5km-700m

7. Flecha - general domestique/bunch puller
8. Hayman - general domestique/bunch puller. They'll get help. Cav's not the only sprinter

9. EBH - stage hunter

When Wiggins came 4th in the Tour, Garmin also had Tyler Farrar in the team. They supported both and David Millar still managed to go for his own chances.

 

[Mambo95]

I believe I was that nutter. I'll explain it in simple terms telling you what every rider does. I'll use current Sky riders + Cav as examples, but I expect they be hiring.

1. Wiggins - GC leader
2. Uran - Mountain domestique
3. Lofqvist/Xandio - Mountain domestique. Wiggins isn't Contador, he doesn't need his team hammering on the front on climbs. He just needs a couple of supporters to help hang on.

4. Cavendish - Sprinter
5. Henderson - Lead out 1: 700m-250m
6. Thomas - Lead out 2: 1.5km-700m

7. Flecha - general domestique/bunch puller
8. Hayman - general domestique/bunch puller. They'll get help. Cav's not the only sprinter

9. EBH - stage hunter

When Wiggins came fourth in the Tour, Garmin also had Tyler Farrar in the team. They managed to support both.

 

[Galic Ho]

I believe I was that nutter. I'll explain it in simple terms telling you what every rider does. I'll use current Sky riders + Cav as examples, but I expect they be hiring.

1. Wiggins - GC leader
2. Uran - Mountain domestique
3. Lofqvist/Xandio - Mountain domestique. Wiggins isn't Contador, he doesn't need his team hammering on the front on climbs. He just needs a couple of supporters to help hang on.

4. Cavendish - Sprinter
5. Henderson - Lead out 1: 700m-250m
6. Thomas - Lead out 2: 1.5km-700m

7. Flecha - general domestique/bunch puller
8. Hayman - general domestique/bunch puller. They'll get help. Cav's not the only sprinter

9. EBH - stage hunter

When Wiggins came 4th in the Tour, Garmin also had Tyler Farrar in the team. They supported both and David Millar still managed to go for his own chances.

Your idea is fine. I have no problem with your logic within reaspn, but it's application isn't taking into consideration the quality of the opposition. You can only do what your opponent enables or lets you do. David Millar is a strong well rounded rider. Vande Velde was on that team as well and he's got a top 5 in the Tour and Hyjesdal as well. Sky have what? Wigans 4th in a lame 2009 TdF and Rogers who came 10th once. There is no comparison.

I really like Tyler Farrar but against Cav he's never ever shown it. Garmin have tried to control and beat HTC's train and they can't. Why? I think because they lean to strongly one way, they lean to GC oriented stuff. HTC goes for wins. IMO you cannot have both, certainly not on their budget. Maybe if you bought all the top super domestiques and stacked a team with them, but that will never happen. Too many roosters in the hen house.

Perhaps I will phrase it this way. Sky was founded with a well know but perhaps forgotten statement. "We will win the Tour by 2014." Does anyone here really think that will happen with Cav on the team? His support alone negates the possibility of a podium, let alone making a top 5 a massive long shot. Then put that on Wigans shoulders. I don't like they guy but I logically cannot see anyone asking that of him and expecting him to to crumble under the pressure. He just doesn't have it. IMO it's not fair on him to expect something that isn't there, worse, to inflate his hopes and watch him choke. PR wise, if they make big statements they need to back them up. I can only see them doing that with Cav. Then there is the issue of pay cheques. Do you keep paying Wigans a fortune and the same as Cav despite the fact his performances will pale by comparison. Is a guy who won a gold medal off the road and who fudged a 4th in the lamest TdF in 20 years worth the dosh? Maybe to the British public, but Cav is certainly worth more in marketing and goodwill with the British public.

Put it this way. Sure those guys might help Wigans hold on, but for what? A top 10. Is his pay cheque really worth that? Rogers can top 10 as well. Why not save the bloody money. As I see it, given Cav's market value, with Wigans on the team and his pedigree and potential results you are simply bleeding money. It's a pure waste.

I am in no way saying EBH is crap given your statement on another thread. He can have a successful time at Sky, but with Cav on the team I see him being an asset used to facilitate Cav, not his own ambitions. Do you really think he signed with Sky from a team he use to be on with Frodo as it's main focus, to wait two years and be forced back into the same old role? Same with a lot of the other riders there. As far as I see it, something has to give. Someone's ambitions will take a hit and naturally they will go with the proven result. The one that gets noticed, which will always be Cav. In the event Cav does sign, he will be the focus. Why? Because he's a sure thing. Ironically this means a lot of past rider purchases and team goals will look rather dumb, which is what Terminator was hinting at and most people here missed. Ultimately that analysis will come down to wins and dollars spent. I don't think I could justify it even if I lied my **** off and used every PR and marketing gimmick I know, so I fail to see how Sky could pull it off.

 

[William H]

I think there's an argument for EBH focusing on things other than the Tour. He's not currently a good enough sprinter, TTer or climber to win a stage, so he's basically stuck in the lottery of breakaways.

 

[Galic Ho]

Actually Cavendish has shown that he doesn't necessarily needs a train to win, many times in fact and on the biggest stage possible, the Champs-Elysees. Certainly it helps, but it's not required.

And really, who gives a **** about the green jersey? It's become nothing but a consolation prize for the lesser sprinter, or maybe it's always been that way, I don't know. No rider in his right mind would trade winning 4-6 TdF stages, as Cavendish has done in the last three years, for the green jersey. Yeah, it's nice, but it's not that nice.

eta:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4tr_l3z9Yg

Wrong. Cav cared quite a bit when he lost points to Hushovd. Those points cost him the green. The guy has an ego. It does matter whether you recognise it or not.

As for the train. Dude, HTC take the reigns of the peloton 50-60km on most of the flat stages and pull a 5-10 minute breakaway back on their own. That burns a ton of energy day in day out. I find Cav's wins boring for the most part because it's so methodical and nobody has seriously dented the HTC train at the Tour but I can't argue they don't deserve it. They put in the effort. It is why their GC guy has never been a major favourite. No serious GC guy would sign for a team with Cav on it because they know they wouldn't be supported. Contrast this with OPL and their past derivates whilst Evans and McEwen were there. It's been said time and again by many people that being on that team cost Evans a Tour. Do you really think a team with a sprinter who uses more team rider resources than McEwen could turn around and support a far inferior GC guy than Evans? Anyone around here who does is taking the ****. Wigans is no GC guy in a GT with a team stacked with support. With a mixed coalition of team support for sprinting and GC he's toast. I'd wager Hyjesdal will beat him under those conditions. This means he's a waste of money.

Perhaps you missed last years Tour de Romandie. Michael Rogers lost that race because Cav's support were all burnt out. I rider was left by the last stage to support him. He went from 1st to 4th in the space of a day. Teams can't split their options anymore it just doesn't work. As I said, Cav on Sky or any team will always come up trumps in who gets the support on the road. Everyone else is just an asset to use and despose of.

 

[spalco]

Well, I don't see any serious GT contenders at Sky anyway, so imo that point is moot, but I don't disagree that there's a conflict here if a team cares about both goals. Even if it's just 5% additional energy that used up on getting sprint wins, that's probably too much unless you've got a dominating Contador on your team or so (and I would guess the number is higher). And when you've got a Cavendish, with his impressive salary you can't let him hang out to dry alone anyway.

 

[robertocarlos]

remember that it has been htc doing the pulling and keeping the scapees on check that takes its tow on the whole team. with garmin they were able to give slightly better support because they did not pull in the front as long or as much. another thing to add that when that happened astana slowed the pace for most of the desecive stages.

 

[velosiped]

I think there's an argument for EBH focusing on things other than the Tour. He's not currently a good enough sprinter, TTer or climber to win a stage, so he's basically stuck in the lottery of breakaways.

yep. He is a prototypical classics rider. The tour is for all other specialists. Maybe he can win on one of the medio-mountain stages, but then he needs to be out of points-jersey competition to be allowed to break away. Seems meaningless for an ambitious rider to toil for three weeks for MAYBE to win a single stage, though.
Better to stay away and prepare/conserve energy for races like Poland and Eneco where he can win the whole thing.

 

[hiero2]

Sky's biggest mistake was not to recruit their management staff from posters on this site. I don't know what you do in Real Life (tm) TERMINATOR, but you're obviously completely wasted.

ROFLMAO! Yeah, he probably was when he wrote that! And a little on the argumentative side, too! Just a little trolling in there!