Sky TdF Team - which riders are in who's camp?

[simoni]

Froome now has to attack Wiggins at AX3, cause Wiggins will take yellow at the ITT if he doesnt get distanced before, nobody can believe that a team wouldnt work for the gc leader and 2012 tour winner.

We can probably expect Wiggins to take time back at the TT though. Who's gains will be greater? AX3 isn't that long/hard by the standards of these things but neither is that first TT particularly long. If Wiggins is in yellow after the TT then it gets interesting and Mont Ventoux could well be decisive.

A lot depends on what others are doing too. Best example I can think of is Riis/Ullrich where Ullrich didn't turn a pedal in anger until the time came to respond to a serious rival's attack (Virenque or Pantani was it?) and Riis was swiftly distanced. Will Contador have a crack on AX3? If he does will Froome respond himself or help Wiggins diesel back up? Will they both be for themselves?

 

[coinneach]

Wiggins will have to win the Giro first...if he doesn't, he'll have to accept second billing on this years Sky.
If he does win the Giro though, the temptation to join the list of double winners might muddie the water for SDB.
But Froomes train has already left the station (in the smaller tours this year), so I suspect Wiggo will be left with few friends....Stannard, if he's picked, maybe

 

[Catwhoorg]

What happens if Stannard is selected? I can see a real falling out between him and Kiryienka over who gets to ride on the front all day. This could make any falling out between Froome and Wiggins seem irrelevant.

One each side of the road, so they are both pulling all day.

 

[serfla]

I've already expressed my opinion earlier this winter, but it was based on presumption of "the old" Contador and Schleck. It's a bit early to draw conclusions about the two, but how the season is going so far, Sky could have a luxury to designate the definite leader after the Ventoux.
I thought Sky entering the race with the two leaders and a scenario in which Wiggins would take the Yellow jersey (or be the best placed GC rider) after the first itt, thus being protected on the Ventoux, would make them very vulnerable and easy to beat.
I'm not so sure this is the case anymore. Contador and Schleck so far don't look like riders able to take advantage of Sky's division.

 

[jaylew]

Unless Wiggo is in Froome's.

Hasn't he already?

 

[serfla]

Hasn't he already?

Depends on the point of view.

 

[TourOfTexas]

Nobody can ride the Giro hard and be competitive in the TdF. Wiggins won't be leader in July, simple as that.

 

[Race Radio]

The only person who matters is Brailsford......whose team is he on?

 

[Alpechraxler]

the knights will stick together.

 

[will10]

Who wouldn't like to see another Olano/Jimenez type situation

 

[eagleofditchling]

That won't happen I don't think. They will pledge loyalty and then during the race it will be a rehash of Hinault/Lemond. Or Roche and Visentini in the Giro. It will be worse if Wiggins wins the Giro. Of course it will resolve itself if one of them is riding much better than the other which happened in the Lemond situation. Hinault finally had to lay down arms. The team will hope for that but if it really close and a matter of seconds that will be interesting.

What? The Badger never had to lay down arms to anybody - Only losing 3' 31"" to Lemond on the col de Granon after Lemond wheelsucked Zimmerrman all day separated him from a sixth TdF. Even after that he kept trying - took 25 secs back on the second TT

 

[Franklin]

What? The Badger never had to lay down arms to anybody - Only losing 3' 31"" to Lemond on the col de Granon after Lemond wheelsucked Zimmerrman all day separated him from a sixth TdF. Even after that he kept trying - took 25 secs back on the second TT

Greg was the best wheelsucker out there, very good in defeating stronger French riders who rode with their testicles instead of their brains

I guess that means Brad has an advantage here

 

[jamesmasters]

There is no debate here. Wiggins will be too tired from the Giro. You cannot do the double without being juiced to the gills. He is just paying Froome back for the showboating last year.

 

[Angliru]

All this drama takes me back to 2004 when Simoni was the returning Giro champion and Cunego, who the previous year was his domestique was now riding a wave of success and fitness that had him confidently arriving at the Giro with singular plans on his mind. The team was somewhat divided and Simoni wasn't close to being willing to hand over the reigns of the ship to Cunego. I even recall on one stage, Cunego attacking and Simoni instead of sitting in and waiting to cover any of their rivals that might respond to Cunego's aggression, answering himself and in then accelerating past Cunego and dropping him.

Eventually, of course Cunego seemingly had the better form of the two and/or was better equiped to take on a course that wasn't as challenging as the previous year enabling him to take an early advantage that he would hold till the end, much to Simoni's chagrin. There was complete inaction by one of the manager/director's (whose name I can't recall, Martnelli?) but thanks to the currently much maligned Claudio Corti (now the manager or ds of the Colombia squad), a truce of sorts was eventually created at least to media with a public showing of a unified squad celebrating their 2nd consecutive Giro win.

 

[jamesmasters]

I'd add.... Let's suppose for the sake of argument that Wiggins is able to compete at the Tour (which he won't be - remember how useless Froome was at the Vuelta after a longer break than Wiggins will have).

This would clearly be very damaging to the team and to Froome's overall chances because it would mean Froome not only has Contador etc to worry about, he also knows that he has to put time into Wiggins before the ITT or he is screwed.

Suppose Contador attacks. The optimum tactic would be to let the train bring him back. But suppose Wiggins is sitting in the train as well, second from the back. Froome is going to be under pressure to drop Wiggins at some point because he knows he is going to lose time in the ITT. What's Froome supposed to do - attack his own train?

 

[staubsauger]

All this drama takes me back to 2004 when Simoni was the returning Giro champion and Cunego, who the previous year was his domestique was now riding a wave of success and fitness that had him confidently arriving at the Giro with singular plans on his mind. The team was somewhat divided and Simoni wasn't close to being willing to hand over the reigns of the ship to Cunego. I even recall on one stage, Cunego attacking and Simoni instead of sitting in and waiting to cover any of their rivals that might respond to Cunego's aggression, answering himself and in then accelerating past Cunego and dropping him.

Eventually, of course Cunego seemingly had the better form of the two and/or was better equiped to take on a course that wasn't as challenging as the previous year enabling him to take an early advantage that he would hold till the end, much to Simoni's chagrin. There was complete inaction by one of the manager/director's (whose name I can't recall, Martnelli?) but thanks to the currently much maligned Claudio Corti (now the manager or ds of the Colombia squad), a truce of sorts was eventually created at least to media with a public showing of a unified squad celebrating their 2nd consecutive Giro win.

Cunego & Simoni worked against each other for the entire Giro. Simoni even attacked Cunego on the penultimate mountain stage putting him in difficulties. The squad worked well for Cunego, especially Mazzoleni and Glomser (?) in the Falzes stage, but Simoni even called Cunego a *******o after his 4th stage victory at Bormio.

In fact the one and only stage where Simoni and Cunego didn't race against each other, was Falzes when Popovych marked Simoni instead of following Cunego's attack and Saeco/Gibo left the responsibility to Landbouwkrediet because they had the pink jersey and Alessio. In the end that brought Cunego the pink jersey, because him was given the freedom that Simoni wouldn't have gotten and Landbouwkrediet was to weak to defend the jersey against Saeco.

But without this move the winner of that Giro most likely would've been Honchar as the parcours wasnT difficult enough at all for Simoni to put enough distance to him.

All in all this gives a good outview of how a team could still work very well for the leaders or a leader in a specific situation, while the two captains are racing against each other.

 

[Jelantik]

the knights will stick together.

one for all, all for one..

 

[wwabbit]

Suppose Contador attacks. The optimum tactic would be to let the train bring him back. But suppose Wiggins is sitting in the train as well, second from the back. Froome is going to be under pressure to drop Wiggins at some point because he knows he is going to lose time in the ITT. What's Froome supposed to do - attack his own train?

Ideally Froome would make Wiggins reel Contador back before launching his own attack which neither Wiggins nor Contador can follow as they have already burnt their matches.

 

[armchairclimber]

If Wiggins gets there, they'll try to get a 1,2 on the podium again...which will mean that they both have to be professional and work for each other against the opposition...if Froome gets the chance to make a break in the mountains he will be allowed to do so. Brad will have his chance in the TT.

Or, for the sake of entertainment, it could be "toys out of the pram" time.

 

[Red Rick]

When to men fight for a leg.............

 

[movingtarget]

What? The Badger never had to lay down arms to anybody - Only losing 3' 31"" to Lemond on the col de Granon after Lemond wheelsucked Zimmerrman all day separated him from a sixth TdF. Even after that he kept trying - took 25 secs back on the second TT

Of course he kept trying until he realized he couldn't win and then it was one big happy family. He was never going to win it in a TT against Lemond.

 

[PCutter]

Sky's tactics are exactly the same regardless of which of them are leader so it doesn't really matter who is on who's side. 7 guys ride on the front till 3k to go, then the two of them sort it out for the stage finish. Rinse and repeat.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Of course he kept trying until he realized he couldn't win and then it was one big happy family. He was never going to win it in a TT against Lemond.

Hinault was rather better in TTs than Lemond.....

 

[Jaunty Monty]

People are saying Wiggins will be too tired after the Giro but what if he doesn't complete it?

For me part of him bringing up the TDF leadership is him keeping his options open in case he falters at the Giro. If he wins the Giro expect him to lessen his rhetoric towards his TDF expectations.

The leadership question does need to be addressed prior to the tour. They can have joint leaders at the start but it needs to be clear to them what will happen in different scenarios and at which point they go all in on one rider.

In general you can assume things will be the same as last year except Froome will be allowed to attack and Wiggins will have to minimise his losses and try to make up time in the ITT. But what happens if one of them has a mechanical or fall towards the end of a stage. How many riders to they sacrifice to help them back. What if Froome attacks and the only one who can react is Wiggins. Does he sit on his rivals wheels or go after Froome and risk dragging them with him? What if Wiggins is actually stronger than Froome on the first tough stage. Do they switch from plan A as they failed to during the 2011 Vuelta?

 

[phanatic]

If he wins the Giro expect him to lessen his rhetoric towards his TDF expectations.

Who was the last Giro winner to voluntarily not go for the Tour win?