Sky V Garmin 2011

[Rocksteady]

Garmin are built for sprints, but they don't have a quality sprinter. Seems an odd strategy, no? Farrar cannnot win against a high class peleton, and whilst Thor Hushovd is admittedly a high class winner but now seems to be more of a one day winner.

Garmin are built for winning TTT's and yet usually lose them to HTC. They'll win a classic and lots of lower grade races, dont expect to see them winning a TDF sprint any time soon . . .

Huh? Didn't Farrar win 4 GT sprints last year? (and come in second in about 100 more) Most people would say he is a "quality" sprinter.

 

[kurtinsc]

Garmin are built for sprints, but they don't have a quality sprinter. Seems an odd strategy, no? Farrar cannnot win against a high class peleton, and whilst Thor Hushovd is admittedly a high class winner but now seems to be more of a one day winner.

Garmin are built for winning TTT's and yet usually lose them to HTC. They'll win a classic and lots of lower grade races, dont expect to see them winning a TDF sprint any time soon . . .

This is only true if the only sprinter you view as "high class" is Cavendish.

Nobody has beaten Cav head to head in a Tour sprint he's contested recently... but both Farrar and Hushovd have come out ahead against pretty much everyone else. Haussler appears pretty solid against the top sprinters as well... maybe a step behind Farrar but still in the elite group.

Who aside from Cavendish is "quality" that Farrar/Hushovd/Haussler haven't beaten in big races? Heck, Farrar has even beaten Cav on at least one occasion I know of.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

This is only true if the only sprinter you view as "high class" is Cavendish.

Nobody has beaten Cav head to head in a Tour sprint he's contested recently... but both Farrar and Hushovd have come out ahead against pretty much everyone else. Haussler appears pretty solid against the top sprinters as well... maybe a step behind Farrar but still in the elite group.

Who aside from Cavendish is "quality" that Farrar/Hushovd/Haussler haven't beaten in big races? Heck, Farrar has even beaten Cav on at least one occasion I know of.

Seem to have forgotten Petachi for a start.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

This is only true if the only sprinter you view as "high class" is Cavendish.

Exactly. It's a ridiculous statement.

Cavendish is the fastest. Neither Garmin nor anyone else can just pluck another Cavendish out of thin air. What they do have is a guy who is probably the second fastest sprinter and at worst is competing on a pretty even basis with anyone bar Cavendish. And then they have another couple of guys in Hushovd and Haussler who aren't quite top tier mass sprinters at this point in their careers but are well capable of racking up wins.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Seem to have forgotten Petachi for a start.

He had a good Tour last year, but he's 37 now, riding for a team that won't be at a lot of major races and well, there are also pertinent issues that are better discussed in the Clinic. It will be a big surprise if he does much of note this year.

But even if he does, you think that the category "high class sprinter" includes just two men?

 

[FignonLeGrand]

Exactly. It's a ridiculous statement.

Cavendish is the fastest. Neither Garmin nor anyone else can just pluck another Cavendish out of thin air. What they do have is a guy who is probably the second fastest sprinter and at worst is competing on a pretty even basis with anyone bar Cavendish. And then they have another couple of guys in Hushovd and Haussler who aren't quite top tier mass sprinters at this point in their careers but are well capable of racking up wins.

No no, the statement was that Garmin are built for the sprints, they are not. They don't have a train as yet (may change in 2011) cant compete with HTC, Lampre or even Quickstep in recent years (ok exclude 2010). Dont get me wrong they are a good team and will win plenty. But Farrar cant cut it when it comes to the key races and I very much do not think he is second best. No chance.

 

[FignonLeGrand]

But even if he does, you think that the category "high class sprinter" includes just two men?

Of course I do not. Just have not seen much to think that it does include Farrar.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

No no, the statement was that Garmin are built for the sprints, they are not. They don't have a train as yet (may change in 2011) cant compete with HTC, Lampre or even Quickstep in recent years (ok exclude 2010).

They aren't built for the sprints in the same sort of monomaniacal way HTC are, but they are considerably more focused on getting sprint results than most teams are. And considerably more likely to actually get sprint results than most teams either.

As for excluding 2010, that's the most relevant year! And they now have a better sprint squad than they had last year. They will not do as well as HTC in the sprints, because of (a) Cavendish and (b) the narrower focus of HTC, but they will likely do better than anyone else.

Dont get me wrong they are a good team and will win plenty. But Farrar cant cut it when it comes to the key races and I very much do not think he is second best. No chance.

Farrar won four Grand Tour stages last year and was injured for almost of the Tour. As for not being the second best, who exactly do you think is faster than him beside Cavendish (which is generally accepted) and Old Father Clinic (which I think is dubious at this point, but not obviously insane)?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Of course I do not. Just have not seen much to think that it does include Farrar.

Well then, name names. I really don't think that there are many who have shown anything to suggest that they are faster than him, other than Cavendish.

 

[ingsve]

With the start that Garmin has had it's going to be interesting to see if they can rival HTC in number of wins by the end of the year.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Current standings in the three way squabble:

Garmin: 8
Sky: 2
HTC: 2

 

[Anonymous]

Current standings in the three way squabble:

Garmin: 8
Sky: 2
HTC: 2

Id say

Garmin 4
Cervelo 2
Sky 2
HTC 2

I thought we werent counting national championships.

 

[kurtinsc]

Id say

Garmin 4
Cervelo 2
Sky 2
HTC 2

I thought we werent counting national championships.

If you aren't counting national championships, it would be:

Garmin: 6 (Haussler - 2 at Qatar, Meyer - 2 at TDU, Farrar -2 at Mallorca)
Sky: 2 (Swift - 2 at TDU)
HTC: 1 (Goss at TDU)

HTC has one NC (Roulston for New Zealand)
Garmin has 2 NC (RR and ITT for Australia with Meyer and Bobridge)

 

[Anonymous]

If you aren't counting national championships, it would be:

Garmin: 6 (Haussler - 2 at Qatar, Meyer - 2 at TDU, Farrar -2 at Mallorca)
Sky: 2 (Swift - 2 at TDU)
HTC: 1 (Goss at TDU)

HTC has one NC (Roulston for New Zealand)
Garmin has 2 NC (RR and ITT for Australia with Meyer and Bobridge)

i agree, i was just splitting the superteam in two, forgot about roulston

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I thought we werent counting national championships.

They used to count for UCI rankings and they do count for CQ rankings. Sticking to what CQ counts makes things simpler and reduces the potential for pointless squabbles about whether or not some small race counts. And it's more convenient because they already count everything up for us.

 

[kurtinsc]

i agree, i was just splitting the superteam in two, forgot about roulston

Well... if you were splitting the two but leaving in the NC's, I guess the Garmin half of the team would have 6 while the Cervelo side would have 2.

 

[DAOTEC]

Well, well

"Mi única dificultad en el Sky"

Rigoberto speaks out in Colombia, where he trains and is accompanied by his friend Mauricio Ardila (Geox) and compañero Mateo Carrara. Telling that he will not join Sky in England, but will continue to live in Pamplona with Ardila and Mauricio Soler (Movistar).

Movi Rigoberto Urán: [http://youtube.com/watch-Urán-team-Sky]
.

 

[bobbins]

"Mi única dificultad en el Sky"

Rigoberto speaks out in Colombia, where he trains and is accompanied by his friend Mauricio Ardila (Geox) and compañero Mateo Carrara. Telling that he will not join Sky in England, but will continue to live in Pamplona with Ardila and Mauricio Soler (Movistar).

Movi Rigoberto Urán: [http://youtube.com/watch-Urán-team-Sky]
.

Sky aren't based in England, unless he means the head office in which case he is better off staying spain as it is right on the A4 and dead busy.

 

[ingsve]

Sky aren't based in England, unless he means the head office in which case he is better off staying spain as it is right on the A4 and dead busy.

Ya, the riders live all over the place. EBH and Nordhaug still live in Norway and I think Arvesen is based there as well now. Löfkvist and Carlström live in a small town in Switzerland etc.

 

[Anonymous]

Sky aren't based in England, unless he means the head office in which case he is better off staying spain as it is right on the A4 and dead busy.

Yeh, i dont know what hes (Uran) on about. The british guys, downing, thomas, stannard, swift, kennaugh spend a bit of time training together in britain either on the road or at the velodrome, but most of the remaining riders live in little clusters, spain, italy, norway, switzerland, australia etc.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Garmin 9
HTC 3
Sky 2

Presumably Garmin won't keep winning this often once the more important races get going and more big name riders start developing real form. I'm guessing that part of the reason for their early season form is their sheer strength in depth - their biggest stars aren't any better than the biggest stars in the other major teams, but they do seem to have an awful lot of guys who can win a race.

 

[ingsve]

Garmin 9
HTC 3
Sky 2

Presumably Garmin won't keep winning this often once the more important races get going and more big name riders start developing real form. I'm guessing that part of the reason for their early season form is their sheer strength in depth - their biggest stars aren't any better than the biggest stars in the other major teams, but they do seem to have an awful lot of guys who can win a race.

Well, they had 27 victories last season and since then they have gotten rid of 8-9 of their more unsuccessful or inexperienced riders and replaced them with very well established pros. Their best riders leaving were Hunter and Tuft and 4-5 of the guys they signed at at least as good if not better than them. I'm guessing they will continue winning a fair bit all year long.

 

[royalpig180]

Well, they had 27 victories last season and since then they have gotten rid of 8-9 of their more unsuccessful or inexperienced riders and replaced them with very well established pros. Their best riders leaving were Hunter and Tuft and 4-5 of the guys they signed at at least as good if not better than them. I'm guessing they will continue winning a fair bit all year long.

I agree. Farrar and Haussler may not beat the likes of Cav in some of the big sprints later in the season, but the nature of sprinting is that different people win on different days. With their depth, they'll be racking up sprint wins all season long. I don't think they'll win any major cobbled classics though. Just because they have a bunch of fairly strong cobbles riders doesn't mean they'll be in good position to get a win... you need a strong closer. If they do win one, it'll probably be Hushovd at P-R because he's done well there before and he specifically targeted that as his #1 goal for this year after winning the world championship.

 

[ingsve]

I agree. Farrar and Haussler may not beat the likes of Cav in some of the big sprints later in the season, but the nature of sprinting is that different people win on different days. With their depth, they'll be racking up sprint wins all season long. I don't think they'll win any major cobbled classics though. Just because they have a bunch of fairly strong cobbles riders doesn't mean they'll be in good position to get a win... you need a strong closer. If they do win one, it'll probably be Hushovd at P-R because he's done well there before and he specifically targeted that as his #1 goal for this year after winning the world championship.

Well, I wouldn't rule out Haussler in Flanders either if he's truely back to old form which so far it seems he is.

 

[royalpig180]

Well, I wouldn't rule out Haussler in Flanders either if he's truely back to old form which so far it seems he is.

I suppose that's true, but I can't see him topping Boonen, Cancellara, Devolder, or Gilbert, all of whom should be at the race.