Slipstream: Has their time passed?

[jopatt]

I don't think they are done

Be the change you want to see in the world

You would certainly expect them to struggle in the second half of any 3 week stage race. Power training or no power training they're going to struggle when others are 'recovering'

 

[Anonymous]

right now i would still rather be a garmin sponsor than a silence one...

id be wondering if i was going to get my moneys worth from it.. are they really in this giro..? i dont think ive seen a lotto shirt yet in two weeks

edit: im not sure ive even seen this seasons silence shirt yet?

 

[180mmCrank]

A new signing or an old one gone mouldy

 

[Snake8]

I was just pondering today that Dave Z is either out of dope or just in bad form as that guy was a force in any time trial when he was....juiced/on CSC...what has he done since?

Or,


Dave Z screwed up his back and hasn't really had "it" since...


C VdV was a domestique with occasional potential in lesser races, though he was never given the team full efforts and support in a big race until he quit doping or started doping...and...

He got better and began competing for the podium at the Tour because suddenly his team believed in him and gave him the support anyone who is not Eddy/Mig/Bernie/LA would need to podium at such a prestigious race, or he started using the good dope.....


So...even though doping is real and an ISSUE, are there no other reasons for humans to succeed and fail? I find it awful hard not to be as cynical as some of you, but I also find i hard not to see there are/could be other reasons people suck or win....

The inability of Garmin to compete ought to be a sign. Though they sent a team that could do a TTT not necessarily compete for GC.

Remember all the WTF is Wiggins on? discussions that were all the rage in week 1? /endramblings

 

[53x11 in DC]

Armstrong's miraculous form after three years off indicates that the arms race is back on, and everyone will need to arrive at the TdF totally strapped.

BroDeal - I just want to be clear. You are stating that, without a doubt, Lance Armstrong is currently using performance enhancing drugs. Is that correct?

Can you just come out and say exactly what you mean? Please - state it.

 

[BroDeal]

BroDeal - I just want to be clear. You are stating that, without a doubt, Lance Armstrong is currently using performance enhancing drugs. Is that correct?

Can you just come out and say exactly what you mean? Please - state it.

I am saying it does not look right to me for someone to take several years off and then be able to ride at the highest level with relatively little training. That last extra few percent that separates the riders at the very top comes from years of continual training. Armstrong's quick recovery after cancer was pointed out by Lemond as a giant red flag. Throw in a severe collar bone fracture a few weeks earlier and, yeah, I find that very suspicious, especally since it has been proven than Armstrong was using EPO in an earlier TdF.

You can draw your own conclusions as to how someone takes three years off, gets three years older, and then can climb with the very best pros, who have been dedicating their lives with monk-like austerity to the sport.

 

[53x11 in DC]

I am saying it does not look right to me for someone to take several years off and then be able to ride at the highest level with relatively little training. That last extra few percent that separates the riders at the very top comes from years of continual training. Armstrong's quick recovery after cancer was pointed out by Lemond as a giant red flag. Throw in a severe collar bone fracture a few weeks earlier and, yeah, I find that very suspicious, especally since it has been proven than Armstrong was using EPO in an earlier TdF.

You can draw your own conclusions as to how someone takes three years off, gets three years older, and then can climb with the very best pros, who have been dedicating their lives with monk-like austerity to the sport.

As I suspected - you'll never just come out and say it. You're like the weasel in high school who writes stuff on the bathroom stall walls because you'll never take a public stance for fear of certain and swift reprisal. So it's just innuendo, sideways implications and smarmy posts.

BroDeal, I really do appeciate your knowledge of cycling, and enjoy your non-cynical posts. But your unwillingness to say what you mean speaks loudly about you. I have a feeling that you'd cower like a child if asked to speak to Lance directly about his alleged current drug use.

I've drawn my conclusion - he is riding clean and getting himself into contention for the TdF. I don't believe he'll win (he'll finish podium behing AC). But he'll do it clean as he has all season.

 

[BroDeal]

As I suspected - you'll never just come out and say it. You're like the weasel in high school who writes stuff on the bathroom stall walls because you'll never take a public stance for fear of certain and swift reprisal. So it's just innuendo, sideways implications and smarmy posts.

BroDeal, I really do appeciate your knowledge of cycling, and enjoy your non-cynical posts. But your unwillingness to say what you mean speaks loudly about you. I have a feeling that you'd cower like a child if asked to speak to Lance directly about his alleged current drug use.

You are free to draw any conclusion you want. Just as others are free to drawn their own conculsions. People often add the same data and come up with different sums.

I am a cyncial and skeptical person. I cannot help it. It is just the way I am.

In the past fans swore up and down that Armstrong was not only clean but having cancer somehow made it unthinkable that he would use dope. In the last few years, with all the positives of top riders and Armstrong's own six positives for EPO, the number of those fans has decreased considerablely.

I've drawn my conclusion - he is riding clean and getting himself into contention for the TdF. I don't believe he'll win (he'll finish podium behing AC). But he'll do it clean as he has all season.

And you know this how? Because pro cycling is not rotten with doping, none of the top riders dope, and dope is not effective enough to make a clean athlete competing with a doped one impossble? I would like to hear the reasoning why you think Armstrong is clean, something other than fanboy hero worship and faith. As an atheist I don't place much value in faith.

 

[53x11 in DC]

Ummmm - you just told me I was free to draw my own conclusions.... something about data and sum and different conclusions.

Regarding doping, I'm not a Pollyanna - I'm also not a fanboy. Just sick of the opaque BS that goes on on this board. Again, I guarantee you that if faced with a live discussion twixt you and LA, you'd NEVER come right out and accuse him of being doped this year. NEVER. You'd retire to the bathroom stalls that are these forums and type away madly.

To reiterate - this is not about your general intellectual acuity regarding cycling.

 

[Ibanez]

Armstrong has easily 5 kilos, probably a helluva lot more, on the rest of the riders hes finishing these stages with. No way is he doing that clean after 3 years from the sport. Sorry.

 

[53x11 in DC]

Armstrong has easily 5 kilos, probably a helluva lot more, on the rest of the riders hes finishing these stages with. No way is he doing that clean after 3 years from the sport. Sorry.

Glad you don't practice law. Terrific conclusions from weak/no circumstantial evidence. Embarrassing.

I guess Voigt's CI and Germany wins and Indurain over Chiappucci put them in the same bucket?

 

[franciep10]

Hold on I must be lost because the topic of the thread is Slipstream not LA Doped or not doped. and I actually thought we were going to talk about slipstream.

 

[BroDeal]

Hold on I must be lost because the topic of the thread is Slipstream not LA Doped or not doped. and I actually thought we were going to talk about slipstream.

Good point. We need to get back on track.

Can a team like Slipstream survive as we go back to no holds barred doping. I don't think it can. Not as a ProTour level team.

The small team Amore e Vita tried racing clean. They were backed by the Vatican. How many Giros did they win?

 

[franciep10]

The small team Amore e Vita tried racing clean. They were backed by the Vatican. How many Giros did they win?

No way when did they race

 

[53x11 in DC]

Hold on I must be lost because the topic of the thread is Slipstream not LA Doped or not doped. and I actually thought we were going to talk about slipstream.

Sorry - I was one of the culprits! On topic... not sure what the future portends, though I believe it has more to do with bad luck and aging riders than renewed doping amongst the rest of the peloton.

Tough break(s) for VdV. Danielson is proving to be on the decline, as is Millar (though the first Universal announcer always seemed to have him pegged as a sprint threat!!). Farrar is finally coming into his own, which is nice to see. Too bad there is a demon Manxman on the loose!

I am disappointed, as I saw JV and VdV speak at a little gathering in DC over the winter, and there was such enthusiasm for the upcoming season. JV was overflowing with confidence after VdV's big TdF result... shame it hasn't played out as planned. That's cycling.

Perhaps he comes back for a strong Vuelta, but I kinda doubt it.

 

[Ibanez]

Glad you don't practice law. Terrific conclusions from weak/no circumstantial evidence. Embarrassing.

I guess Voigt's CI and Germany wins and Indurain over Chiappucci put them in the same bucket?

Probably. I thought Voigt climbing the Rettenbachferner faster then all those 60kg climbers was ridiculous. I love the guy, but how he found his climbing legs so late in his career makes me wonder.

Personally I think that your belief that Armstrong is clean quite embarassing in the face of the evidence mounted against him over the years. Why would the old dog change his ways when he is so desperate to secure his legacy with that 8th tour win. Blind Faith.

 

[BroDeal]

No way when did they race

They are still racing. They are co-sponsored by McDonald's these days.

I think the team and its members get blessed by the pope every year.

 

[53x11 in DC]

Probably. I thought Voigt climbing the Rettenbachferner faster then all those 60kg climbers was ridiculous. I love the guy, but how he found his climbing legs so late in his career makes me wonder.

Personally I think that your belief that Armstrong is clean quite embarassing in the face of the evidence mounted against him over the years. Why would the old dog change his ways when he is so desperate to secure his legacy with that 8th tour win. Blind Faith.

Take this off line with me - I'd love to share my views, but I'll honor Franciep's desire to stay on topic. I assure you it is not blind faith.

 

[BroDeal]

Take this off line with me - I'd love to share my views, but I'll honor Franciep's desire to stay on topic. I assure you it is not blind faith.

There are other threads...or you could make a new one.

 

[53x11 in DC]

There are other threads...or you could make a new one.

No baiting, BroDeal... I just gave you props on another thread!

 

[Ibanez]

Yep back to slipstream and their lack of a giro minus farrar.

We just cannot help ourselves when it comes to Armstrong arguing is way too much fun eh

 

[Jasper]

Just thought I'd share:


31 Thomas Danielson (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 6.05


I notice vast improvement. TdF podium soon?