So in what year was there a clean tour winner?

Page 3 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Mar 18, 2009
14,634
0
0
Libertine Seguros said:
The man who actually tested positive during that race but got grounds for a TUE on it?
Not to mention the artificial hemoglobin.

The response he gave when asked about Landis talking about his doping was classic.

"What? In 2006?"
 
Aug 13, 2010
49
0
0
TubularBills said:
Not a winner of 'the tour' but top 10 and won the giro.

Perhaps one of the cleanest riders of all time.

Andrew Hampsten (Grand Tour races '85 to '95)

I would agree, and so do a lot of old-school cyclists, journalists, and cycling fans.
 
Jul 28, 2009
296
0
0
VeloMaster said:
TubularBills said:
Not a winner of 'the tour' but top 10 and won the giro.

Perhaps one of the cleanest riders of all time.

Andrew Hampsten (Grand Tour races '85 to '95)

I would agree, and so do a lot of old-school cyclists, journalists, and cycling fans.
Why? Not saying you are not correct, just want to know what makes cyclist and journalists agree with this.
 
Jul 28, 2009
296
0
0
airstream said:
....
2006: entire top 10 were on an explosible cocktail out of transfusions, epo, steroids and so on. And so on one more time.
2007: climax of doping era. remembering how they rode, difficult to say on what the best were. maybe, there was all stuff in unlimited quantities. Rasmussen was allegedly caught due to dynepo. i bet discovery was also on that. probably, it was the start of cera time too.
2008: almost guaranteed - cera
2009: the biological passport programme started working if i recall correctly. control measures were unprecedented, but nonetheless a technology of cheating is always one step ahead of a technology of a catcher. First news about new methods of epo microdosing came out.
2010: i don't see big difference between 2010 and 2009. still a long long way to clean cycling.
2011: battles were really closed and conservative. does it suggest about absolute cleaniless of super elite? i don't think so. rather it was just a step in the right direction.
wasn't that the case in 2006 as well? Landis obviously had the ultra attack in the morzine stage, but before that it was pretty conservative, landis actually got a lot of critics for controlling the race and not attacking. And guys like Kloden lost the tour because they didn't attack.
 
Mar 17, 2009
1,863
0
0
Cancellator said:
Yes, the fact that Bartali suspected Coppi so strongly and wanted to find evidence of him doping makes me think Gino was actually clean.
I think you're misconstruing the reasons for Bartali's obsession with Coppi. It wasn't to find evidence, it was to find out what his "edge" was. Coppi was 5 years Bartali's junior so had youth on his side. Bartali need all the help he could get to defeat his younger rival.

As for being a catholic bestowing a higher moral code on a person, do me a favour. In 47 years I have encountered all manner of Catholics. They have no monopoly on morality at all. Why do you think the phrase "a practicing Catholic" was coined?

Bartali's selfless exploits in the Second World War were exemplary but to translate them to doping are blinkered. Schindler was a similarly heroic individual, but also flawed in other areas of his life, I have no reason to think Bartali was otherwise.

PS I was born & brought up a Catholic, hence my perspective.
 
Mar 17, 2009
1,863
0
0
For my money in the modern era, that is after doping was made illegal, 1990.

Prior to the 60's they were all clean in so much as there was no rule against it. Indeed in the 30's it was one item that the organisation specifically did not supply.
 
Roninho said:
VeloMaster said:
Why? Not saying you are not correct, just want to know what makes cyclist and journalists agree with this.
Really nothing more than empirical evidence...

1. The era i.e America's first real foray into international racing and definitely the grand tours - with a U.S. based pro team, 7-Eleven in 1985 - not forgetting Jonathan Boyer in '81 who managed to secure a spot on a continental team, becoming the first American to ride in the tour.

2. The company he kept and the teams he rode with Jim Ochowicz, Mike Neel, Steve Bauer, Greg Lemond, Paul Keochli... Team 7-Eleven, La Vie Claire...

In Greg's words:

"I know my old teammate, Eric Boyer, retired because he didn't want to touch the stuff, and I know many other people who made it through clean, such as Andy Hampsten and Steve Bauer. Every rider on La Vie Claire was clean, that was Paul Keochli's big deal to make sure he had a clean team."

http://www.roble.net/marquis/coaching/lemond98.html

3. His history, his path into the sport and his timely exit - as outlined in this superb interview... the whole story in his words:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/andy-hampsten-interview

With cycling you can never be sure, but his history and depth of character rings true for me.
 
Jul 28, 2009
296
0
0
TubularBills said:
Roninho said:
Really nothing more than empirical evidence...

1. The era i.e America's first real foray into international racing and definitely the grand tours - with a U.S. based pro team, 7-Eleven in 1985 - not forgetting Jonathan Boyer in '81 who managed to secure a spot on a continental team, becoming the first American to ride in the tour.

2. The company he kept and the teams he rode with Jim Ochowicz, Mike Neel, Steve Bauer, Greg Lemond, Paul Keochli... Team 7-Eleven, La Vie Claire...

In Greg's words:

"I know my old teammate, Eric Boyer, retired because he didn't want to touch the stuff, and I know many other people who made it through clean, such as Andy Hampsten and Steve Bauer. Every rider on La Vie Claire was clean, that was Paul Keochli's big deal to make sure he had a clean team."

http://www.roble.net/marquis/coaching/lemond98.html

3. His history, his path into the sport and his timely exit - as outlined in this superb interview... the whole story in his words:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/andy-hampsten-interview

With cycling you can never be sure, but his history and depth of character rings true for me.
Thank you for your reply, appreciate the info!
 
Mar 13, 2009
1,064
0
0
ultimobici said:
I think you're misconstruing the reasons for Bartali's obsession with Coppi. It wasn't to find evidence, it was to find out what his "edge" was. Coppi was 5 years Bartali's junior so had youth on his side. Bartali need all the help he could get to defeat his younger rival.

As for being a catholic bestowing a higher moral code on a person, do me a favour. In 47 years I have encountered all manner of Catholics. They have no monopoly on morality at all. Why do you think the phrase "a practicing Catholic" was coined?

Bartali's selfless exploits in the Second World War were exemplary but to translate them to doping are blinkered. Schindler was a similarly heroic individual, but also flawed in other areas of his life, I have no reason to think Bartali was otherwise.

PS I was born & brought up a Catholic, hence my perspective.
Probably the fact that Coppi wasn't an incessant chain smoker like Bartali.

I agree with your take on Catholicism, and potential Bartali doping. Because in Gino's mind if the Catholic church bemoaned "evil substances", then he would never have clouded his lungs with nicotine and his liver with chianti. Thus, whether he doped cannot be based on his faith
 
Mar 13, 2009
1,064
0
0
BYOP88 said:
The safest answer is 1902
Turner29 said:
This is the only date I would put any money on...
I actually shutter to think about what those guys took to stay upright. Tho I guess there were no rules so it was "technically" legal
 
Aug 4, 2009
177
0
0
VeloFidelis said:
I have seen many since then, and I don't believe that I have ever seen a "clean" race. I don't believe that anyone posting on this site ever seen "clean" racing at the Pro level either. You can rail about the injustice and elimination of doping to your hearts content, but don't be fooled into thinking that you ever will. Is it better to be a fan / realist? .... or a naive, self righteous, moralist?
The lines you draw are not convenient
 
May 17, 2010
43
0
0
the asian said:
He should be. He was a devout catholic and the Character of the man seems to be a anti doper. Coppi certainly doped. He has even admitted it.
Devout Catholic? So was Joe Paterno.
 
May 20, 2010
169
0
0
SilentAssassin said:
I have to ask this question. Can there be a clean tour de france winner in the eyes of the clinic, if so what year?

I don't blame the clinic...this sport is ripe with PEDS and substance abuse dating back to the days of Merckx. But just like any other sport probably...only difference is in the sport of cycling, testing is more consistent and thorough. That's why cycling probably has a bad name, and all these other sports don't really have as bad a reputation for cheats.

There is suspicion behind pretty much all the legends of tour: Merckx, Lemond, Contador, Armstrong, and now even Wiggins...

Who is clean in cycling? Don't tell me it's the guy 6 hours behind in the overrall. The only clean rider I think I know for certain right now is Menchov and maybe Cadel.
Besides the Armstrong fanbois, who was ever suspicious of Lemond? If Lemond were juicing, he should demand a full refund from his dealer. It was definitely not the juice of champions that his contemporaries, Indurain et al. were taking.

And Wigans, a legend of the Tour? Please.
 
May 26, 2009
3,687
1
0
TubularBills said:
In Greg's words:

"I know my old teammate, Eric Boyer, retired because he didn't want to touch the stuff, and I know many other people who made it through clean, such as Andy Hampsten and Steve Bauer. Every rider on La Vie Claire was clean, that was Paul Keochli's big deal to make sure he had a clean team."
.
Then the answer is Lemond, preceded by Hinault :D
 
Mar 29, 2011
5,123
0
0
Roninho said:
wasn't that the case in 2006 as well? Landis obviously had the ultra attack in the morzine stage, but before that it was pretty conservative, landis actually got a lot of critics for controlling the race and not attacking. And guys like Kloden lost the tour because they didn't attack.
True, but there were no attacking climbers actually. doping can't make defensive riders to attack on the climbs. but for instance even levi tried to get away on pla de beret and gave an impressive solo on mollard. :) landis and kloden rode as they could. sastre attacked a lot too. at least, we had no wasted mountain stages like in 2011.
 
Jul 28, 2009
296
0
0
airstream said:
True, but there were no attacking climbers actually. doping can't make defensive riders to attack on the climbs. but for instance even levi tried to get away on pla de beret and gave an impressive solo on mollard. :) landis and kloden rode as they could. sastre attacked a lot too. at least, we had no wasted mountain stages like in 2011.
i'm not sure if that was the first time i'd seen levi attack in the tdf or that it was the year before , but i do remember i actually fell from my chair when levi attacked..
 
Mar 29, 2011
5,123
0
0
Roninho said:
i'm not sure if that was the first time i'd seen levi attack in the tdf or that it was the year before , but i do remember i actually fell from my chair when levi attacked..
yeah, probably almost everyone thought then "omg what the heck is going on with le tour if Levi attacks??! :eek:" in all fairness, attacking inspiration reached Leipheimer awhile. On the next mountain stage, he rode the whole alpe-d'huez sitting in the last position in all groups loool. :)
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M The Clinic 34
Similar threads
Tour de Cleans?

ASK THE COMMUNITY