So in what year was there a clean tour winner?

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Jul 13, 2012
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fatsprintking said:
Well I am going for Gastone Nencini in 1960, for no other reason than because he does not seem to get much credit for his win, given that the winner before was Bahamontes and after was Anquetil.

If he was not clean then I am going for 2 time winner in 1907/08 Lucien Petit-Breton. A fun little guy who could have made it big in the theatre if he had not have had an overwhelming passion for riding his bike...
Nencini was a heavy smoker which makes his victory all the more amazing. Over 30 years ago I used to live close to his shop run later by his widow a nice lady who spoke to me at length what her husband had said regarding what happened to Tommy Simpson. An utter disgrace the way they put him back on the bike (twice iirc) in her opinion.
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Libertine Seguros said:
I don't think it would matter one iota whether Bartali doped or not; his heroics make any potential sporting fraud pale into insignificance.
Well... He did, of course. And no, it really doesn't matter.

I stood on the roads of France and Belgium to witness my first TDF stages and spring Classics in 1972. I have seen many since then, and I don't believe that I have ever seen a "clean" race. I don't believe that anyone posting on this site ever seen "clean" racing at the Pro level either. You can rail about the injustice and elimination of doping to your hearts content, but don't be fooled into thinking that you ever will.

Is it better to be a fan / realist? .... or a naive, self righteous, moralist? In forty years of watching, I have been both. Regardless... I am still a fan.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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VeloFidelis said:
Well... He did, of course. And no, it really doesn't matter.

I stood on the roads of France and Belgium to witness my first TDF stages and spring Classics in 1972. I have seen many since then, and I don't believe that I have ever seen a "clean" race. I don't believe that anyone posting on this site ever seen "clean" racing at the Pro level either. You can rail about the injustice and elimination of doping to your hearts content, but don't be fooled into thinking that you ever will.

Is it better to be a fan / realist? .... or a naive, self righteous, moralist? In forty years of watching, I have been both. Regardless... I am still a fan.
Yes, you are right, but no, you are wrong. Yes, doping has been around ever since this whole thing started. When somebody found an advantage, or a perceived advantage, somebody took it. But, the dopage, pre-EPO and steroid era was a totally different animal. Totally. First, you really didn't affect your overall performance. You could impact a single race - but in a stage race like the tour? Nah. Over a period of years? Nah. Any drugs available before EPO and steroids had a negative downside to balance their benefit. EPO and steroid era drugs do not have much downside. They actually improve performance and physical capacity.

That makes them different. It ain't the same thing as 1964. Don't try and pretend it is.
 
Mar 4, 2012
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hiero2 said:
Yes, you are right, but no, you are wrong. Yes, doping has been around ever since this whole thing started. When somebody found an advantage, or a perceived advantage, somebody took it. But, the dopage, pre-EPO and steroid era was a totally different animal. Totally. First, you really didn't affect your overall performance. You could impact a single race - but in a stage race like the tour? Nah. Over a period of years? Nah. Any drugs available before EPO and steroids had a negative downside to balance their benefit. EPO and steroid era drugs do not have much downside. They actually improve performance and physical capacity.

That makes them different. It ain't the same thing as 1964. Don't try and pretend it is.
+1 I don't think you can just keep taking Amphetamine stage after stage after stage without it having a very bad and noticeable effect on your health.

Steroids, however... Maybe long-term liver damage, but as the Armstrong case shows, there are ways to minimize it.

When did 'roids actually become widely used? Was it in the fifties?
 
Feb 18, 2011
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why do you think Evans wasn't clean? he has big talent i wouldn't be surprised if he was clean
 
iZnoGouD said:
why do you think Evans wasn't clean? he has big talent i wouldn't be surprised if he was clean
He may be clean. But there is ample evidence to prove that he has worked with Dr Ferrari. He himself has said that he used Dr Ferrari to make training plans.
Therefore it's enough reason to suspect him of not been clean.
I Can't say certainty, that he doped, neither I can say with Certainty that he is clean. There is enough doubt. This thread was about, in which year there was a clean winner.There is enough evidence to suspect that he may not have been clean.
 
Jun 18, 2012
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iZnoGouD said:
why do you think Evans wasn't clean? he has big talent i wouldn't be surprised if he was clean
He had his drugs right last year (cycles), this year looks like he was off. Plus there may be a bit of paranoia in the peloton with everything going on. I definitely think the Schlecks were off the dope this year.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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the asian said:
He should be. He was a devout catholic and the Character of the man seems to be a anti doper. Coppi certainly doped. He has even admitted it.
Thanks for the laugh, that was hilarious.
God knows being a devout catholic instantly means you're an honest person. Especially someone whose antics are so well documented as Bartali's :D

fatsprintking said:
Well I am going for Gastone Nencini in 1960, for no other reason than because he does not seem to get much credit for his win, given that the winner before was Bahamontes and after was Anquetil.

If he was not clean then I am going for 2 time winner in 1907/08 Lucien Petit-Breton. A fun little guy who could have made it big in the theatre if he had not have had an overwhelming passion for riding his bike...
Nencini has admitted to being at least on testosterone.

the asian said:
He may be clean. But there is ample evidence to prove that he has worked with Dr Ferrari. He himself has said that he used Dr Ferrari to make training plans.
And since by the admission of several riders Ferrari has zero clue about sports training, and didn't even know what a power meter was until the mid-90s.....yeah, not buying the "it's just training plans" excuse
 
issoisso said:
Thanks for the laugh, that was hilarious.
God knows being a devout catholic instantly means you're an honest person. Especially someone whose antics are so well documented as Bartali's :D



That was a dumb comment.:eek: But I do believe Bartali is clean.
 
Jul 12, 2012
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If by "clean" we mean racing without the use of any PED or steriod, prior to WW2. However, I am at a loss right now to name a specific TdF Champion from that pre-war period.

After WW2, amphetamines were widely available:

http://www.narconon.org/drug-information/methamphetamine-history.html

There use was not limited to cycling. We know now that starting in the early 1950s until very recently, amphetamines were as much a part of baseball as wood bats.
 
Mar 29, 2011
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....
2006: entire top 10 were on an explosible cocktail out of transfusions, epo, steroids and so on. And so on one more time.
2007: climax of doping era. remembering how they rode, difficult to say on what the best were. maybe, there was all stuff in unlimited quantities. Rasmussen was allegedly caught due to dynepo. i bet discovery was also on that. probably, it was the start of cera time too.
2008: almost guaranteed - cera
2009: the biological passport programme started working if i recall correctly. control measures were unprecedented, but nonetheless a technology of cheating is always one step ahead of a technology of a catcher. First news about new methods of epo microdosing came out.
2010: i don't see big difference between 2010 and 2009. still a long long way to clean cycling.
2011: battles were really closed and conservative. does it suggest about absolute cleaniless of super elite? i don't think so. rather it was just a step in the right direction.


just my thoughts.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Parrot23 said:
Bugs Bunny, the last definitively clean winner. 100% sure.

I mean, we just have to use our eyes. Massive circumstantial evidence.
As much as I would think this is funny, in a way your comment could be serious, someone was kind enough to add the Tom Simpson youtube death yesterday and I saw the whole hour of it, the doping talk in it by the riders is (in my humble oppinion) a bit worst than today's doping talk, surely we can go back and forth to say back in 67 no EPO, Cera, blood doping, that converts donkeys in racehorses...... true, but cheating is cheating, I was really amazed by the riders openness to just say, ohhh PEDs were just common back then. I guess what I'm trying to say is who the heck knows for sure when. I would love to say Lemond, but...... with absolute certainty....
 
gatete said:
As much as I would think this is funny, in a way your comment could be serious, someone was kind enough to add the Tom Simpson youtube death yesterday and I saw the whole hour of it, the doping talk in it by the riders is (in my humble oppinion) a bit worst than today's doping talk, surely we can go back and forth to say back in 67 no EPO, Cera, blood doping, that converts donkeys in racehorses...... true, but cheating is cheating, I was really amazed by the riders openness to just say, ohhh PEDs were just common back then. I guess what I'm trying to say is who the heck knows for sure when. I would love to say Lemond, but...... with absolute certainty....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tGJsxGFhxg
 
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