So what are we going to do?

[Edwardsc]

I'm what's known as a lurker. I know this instantly loses me respect, but I don't really care.

It seems there's lots of complaining on here, but little actual plan of action, other than doling out a few quid to Kimmage. Has anyone considered a protest? By this, I don't just mean one or two guys disrupting a race for a few minutes like the Basques, I mean something grander.

Surely with the Fuentes verdict, added to Lance/McQuaid et al. the protest would have strong backing, and might even be at that perfect point where the media are behind it.

Ideas? Thoughts?

 

[Cloxxki]

I'm what's known as a lurker. I know this instantly loses me respect, but I don't really care.

It seems there's lots of complaining on here, but little actual plan of action, other than doling out a few quid to Kimmage. Has anyone considered a protest? By this, I don't just mean one or two guys disrupting a race for a few minutes like the Basques, I mean something grander.

Surely with the Fuentes verdict, added to Lance/McQuaid et al. the protest would have strong backing, and might even be at that perfect point where the media are behind it.

Ideas? Thoughts?

I'd like to see a coordinated complaint on numerous points offered to IOC. Only underwriters should IOC sanctioned athletes. Those who contribute, forcefully to sports feds in order to compete in their sports, having to obey to rules set by IOC/WADA, and not getting their money's worth.
Asking money back for 5 years would be a way. Committing to the incentive and massively severing ties with IOC, would also help.
But without people in the grassroots being aware, nothing will happen. Grassroots pays for the top salaries, and earns the big sponsorships and government grants.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I'm what's known as a lurker. I know this instantly loses me respect, but I don't really care.

I don't think anyone loses respect for lurking. That's not really an accurate portrait of this forum's activities. Apparently lots of people read without posting. Not a big deal.

It seems there's lots of complaining on here, but little actual plan of action...

Ideas? Thoughts?

You aren't much of a lurker as this question has been answered. Here are some ways to get started.

WADA must have the power to open cases for all sports.
Fund/perform back-dated testing with current penalties.
WADA ban for Hein and Pat, Thom Wiesel too. Patrice Clerc should then take over the UCI.
A new one for me, double the penalty for AAF's that are delivered by injection. This is toothless without WADA having the authority to open cases.

What are your ideas?

 

[Edwardsc]

My slant was less on what WADA should do, but, as the heading suggests, more on what WE can do. So, in that sense Cloxxki's point is interesting, but not something I'm overly familiar with.
What I was concerned with was putting pressure on the powers that be to change. Other than petitions, how can we move this along?
Occupy-UCI?

 

[DirtyWorks]

My slant was less on what WADA should do, but, as the heading suggests, more on what WE can do. So, in that sense Cloxxki's point is interesting, but not something I'm overly familiar with.
What I was concerned with was putting pressure on the powers that be to change. Other than petitions, how can we move this along?
Occupy-UCI?

What you as a fan does is spread the word that WADA must have the authority to open doping cases. Just having a coherent set of talking points about WADA's weak anti-doping role and how that has to end costs nothing but some mental energy.

You could not fund your local UCI federation. Giant in the U.S. is funding Mountain Bike Pros riding outside the UCI system. They get it. You can do the same thing. Don't spend money inside the local UCI federation.

 

[armchairclimber]

Direct action?

Concerted fan protests at the major events, co-ordinated via social media ( like the "occupy" campaigns? That kind of thing? Disrupting the start...podium presentations...making an unpleasant splash where the sponsors most want to be seen?
Well, it could work, I guess....the clinic would be spread pretty thin though.

 

[Tinman]

Direct action?

Concerted fan protests at the major events, co-ordinated via social media ( like the "occupy" campaigns? That kind of thing? Disrupting the start...podium presentations...making an unpleasant splash where the sponsors most want to be seen?
Well, it could work, I guess....the clinic would be spread pretty thin though.

Boo-ing when Pat hands out medals together with some signs saying "Pat Must Go" make great TV coverage also.

 

[BroDeal]

I say we take Dirk Hofman-like action. Signs and chalk at races.

 

[Edwardsc]

They would have to be really badly written signs though, preferably with some kind of spelling mistake. We also need a truck load of V for Vendetta masks.

I don't know... wouldn't halting a race with a protest do anything?
I'm just throwing ideas out there... obviously I have no actual knowledge. Of anything.

 

[BroDeal]

They would have to be really badly written signs though, preferably with some kind of spelling mistake. We also need a truck load of V for Vendetta masks.

I don't know... wouldn't halting a race with a protest do anything?
I'm just throwing ideas out there... obviously I have no actual knowledge. Of anything.

I am envisioning overhead coverage from helicopters with the roads covered with expressions of disgust, like "McQuaid can suck it".

 

[Afrank]

They would have to be really badly written signs though, preferably with some kind of spelling mistake. We also need a truck load of V for Vendetta masks.

I don't know... wouldn't halting a race with a protest do anything?
I'm just throwing ideas out there... obviously I have no actual knowledge. Of anything.

Halt a race at your own risk.

 

[M Sport]

I don't know... wouldn't halting a race with a protest do anything?
I'm just throwing ideas out there... obviously I have no actual knowledge. Of anything.

That's one of the only options that will get mainstream media attention. Nothing will have as big an impact as fans halting a stage because the leadership of our sport suck. Signs, and all the other stuff will only get cycling press attention, and even then the larger cycling outlets will ignore it.

Note to fans in Italy. Select the ITT stage for this protest. A secondary benefit will be actually turning the rest of the race into a race.

 

[blackcat]

I'm what's known as a lurker. I know this instantly loses me respect, but I don't really care.

It seems there's lots of complaining on here, but little actual plan of action, other than doling out a few quid to Kimmage. Has anyone considered a protest? By this, I don't just mean one or two guys disrupting a race for a few minutes like the Basques, I mean something grander.

Surely with the Fuentes verdict, added to Lance/McQuaid et al. the protest would have strong backing, and might even be at that perfect point where the media are behind it.

Ideas? Thoughts?

my premise is. there is no solution. pro sport is now an entertainment business. too much money, too much/many incentive(s).

read some charles yesalis in nytimes.

i think your premise is flawed (respectfully), that some solution exists. and how do you define a solution, what is your objective?

it took me about the better part of a decade to come to this position, so I am no ways making light of you. Dear Wiggo thinks there is some way, many on this forum have their own strategy and early inchoate plan. I thought there was some solution, some amorphous concept you appeal to. but alas, i think pro cycling and n american pro sport, and olympic level sport is about mythology first and foremost. and doping will always be a part of that.

 

[MarkvW]

That's one of the only options that will get mainstream media attention. Nothing will have as big an impact as fans halting a stage because the leadership of our sport suck. Signs, and all the other stuff will only get cycling press attention, and even then the larger cycling outlets will ignore it.

Note to fans in Italy. Select the ITT stage for this protest. A secondary benefit will be actually turning the rest of the race into a race.

So . . . let me get this right.
We're upset at pro cycling because it does not enforce the anti-doping rules, so we should break the law in order to make the point that the rules should be followed . . .?

Can't quite follow that line of thought.

Pro cycling can clean up its act at any time by enforcing stringent team sanctions whenever a team rider tests positive. That's never going to happen, because doping is too deeply entrenched in the sport.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

This forum will not be used to encourage anyone to break the law. Further such postings will be deleted.

Thank you.

Susan

 

[Zam_Olyas]

This forum will not be used to encourage anyone to break the law. Further such postings will be deleted.

Thank you.

Susan

Start a revolution from here? you really think so???

 

[hiero2]

I don't think anyone loses respect for lurking. That's not really an accurate portrait of this forum's activities. Apparently lots of people read without posting. Not a big deal.



You aren't much of a lurker as this question has been answered. Here are some ways to get started.

WADA must have the power to open cases for all sports.
Fund/perform back-dated testing with current penalties.
WADA ban for Hein and Pat, Thom Wiesel too. Patrice Clerc should then take over the UCI.
A new one for me, double the penalty for AAF's that are delivered by injection. This is toothless without WADA having the authority to open cases.

What are your ideas?

Agree - you need to lurk a little more thoroughly. No penalty points for lurking. I think those penalties points went away about 1996.

A few things to search on: CCN (Change Cycling Now), BikePure.org, Repaircycling.org.

 

[Edwardsc]

So . . . let me get this right.
We're upset at pro cycling because it does not enforce the anti-doping rules, so we should break the law in order to make the point that the rules should be followed . . .?

Can't quite follow that line of thought.

Pro cycling can clean up its act at any time by enforcing stringent team sanctions whenever a team rider tests positive. That's never going to happen, because doping is too deeply entrenched in the sport.

Ok, firstly I'm not advocating breaking the law. Protesting is not necessarily breaking of the law.
Secondly, if I was advocating breaking the law to stop a race, (HYPOTHETICALLY!!!) I don't understand what your problem is. Firstly, the law which would be broken has no relevance to the law we are trying to enforce. If a society is failing to enforce laws, something needs to change in order that it does so. Most successful revolutions and protests throughout history have broken some law or another. Most of our basic rights have been achieved by breaking the law.
Again, I'm not advocating breaking the law, I'm just pointing out that I can't quite follow your line of thought.

As for not lurking properly. I apologise profusely. However, most of what people have suggested we do are not my area of expertise, not my intention in starting this thread. I was hoping for more direct action. (which definitely does NOT constitute breaking the law)

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Finally a thread not about Sky.

 

[Master50]

If your foundation belief is cycling is universally dirty then in principal there is nothing you can do to end doping until you also believe it is or can change. You have to be able to accept the sport is changing or it really won't matter who oversees the sport.
If you believe that the UCI is totaly corrupt how does moving anti doping responsibility to WADA clean up sport? Are you saying that WADA cannot be corrupted? THe entire Spanish Judiciary is influenced by the profile of many of the Porto unnamed athletes to prevent discovery of the non cyclist identities.
As little as you think the UCI is doing against doping they are still the only professional sport to deal with its doping problem in remotely effective manner.
Right now Pro Cycling is cleaner than it has ever been. It is likely the first time that there are more clean riders than dirty. Of course if you believe that nothing has changed since the heyday of the LA period then there is no hope you will ever see pro sports as honest.
Until you are prepared to believe there is change no protest will make a difference and that is where I believe we are now.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

If your foundation belief is cycling is universally dirty then in principal there is nothing you can do to end doping until you also believe it is or can change. You have to be able to accept the sport is changing or it really won't matter who oversees the sport.
If you believe that the UCI is totaly corrupt how does moving anti doping responsibility to WADA clean up sport? Are you saying that WADA cannot be corrupted? THe entire Spanish Judiciary is influenced by the profile of many of the Porto unnamed athletes to prevent discovery of the non cyclist identities.
As little as you think the UCI is doing against doping they are still the only professional sport to deal with its doping problem in remotely effective manner.
Right now Pro Cycling is cleaner than it has ever been. It is likely the first time that there are more clean riders than dirty. Of course if you believe that nothing has changed since the heyday of the LA period then there is no hope you will ever see pro sports as honest.
Until you are prepared to believe there is change no protest will make a difference and that is where I believe we are now.

Can you explain what "remotely effective manner" the UCI has done in anti-doping?

And to the blue - how can you say that? Not saying it is wrong, but who and what are you trusting to make such a statement.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

With the rampant levels of systematic cheating that have been recently made public, as well as the lengths and expense that were gone to in order to pass testing, it would not have been reasonable to expect that the anti-doping that the UCI or any other sports federation had in place could have been effective.

This is compounded by the fact that the UCI was either corrupt, or compromised in its ability to act, which exacerbates the matter. I still believe that the amount of cheating going on was underestimated, which was a bigger factor than the 'blind-eye' policy of the UCI leadership.

Post USADA report, all the appropriate noises are being made about clean, cleaner, no needles, etc. but history has yet to reverse it's course after seeing ongoing positives, new drugs, emaciated champions, and the Tour of Turkey.

While some courageous teams and managers truly are committed to change, others are not. And until riders are literally incarcerated or fitted with ankle bracelets and bio-chips, they can truly only be compelled morally to choose clean riding.

I don't think that we can be assured of a clean sport unless the riders give up some of their personal liberties and freedoms willingly and allow themselves to be subjected such complete and utter personal invasions.

I do however think that the criminalization of sports doping would go a very long way in making many think twice about crossing that line. If we treat sports as a business, which it is, why should athletes not be held to the same standards as company officers and directors as it relates to illegal activities. Look at how nervous signing officers have become when it comes to quarterly reports.....and the courts have been very visible in issuing huge fines and jail time to violators.

Hincapie gets to keep his riches after smugly sitting next to Lance at the ATOC press conference, but if he thought jail might be in his future, his Alpe d"Huez win never would have occured.

I am sad.

 

[Edwardsc]

If your foundation belief is cycling is universally dirty then in principal there is nothing you can do to end doping until you also believe it is or can change. You have to be able to accept the sport is changing or it really won't matter who oversees the sport.
If you believe that the UCI is totaly corrupt how does moving anti doping responsibility to WADA clean up sport? Are you saying that WADA cannot be corrupted? THe entire Spanish Judiciary is influenced by the profile of many of the Porto unnamed athletes to prevent discovery of the non cyclist identities.
As little as you think the UCI is doing against doping they are still the only professional sport to deal with its doping problem in remotely effective manner.
Right now Pro Cycling is cleaner than it has ever been. It is likely the first time that there are more clean riders than dirty. Of course if you believe that nothing has changed since the heyday of the LA period then there is no hope you will ever see pro sports as honest.
Until you are prepared to believe there is change no protest will make a difference and that is where I believe we are now.

Huh? I don't realllly understand what you're saying, but it seems you're trying to say that we need to accept the sport is changing in order to make a protest? There's some distinctly fuzzy logic going on in this thread.

Ok, so let's accept the sport is changing. That doesn't change the fact that the UCI's massive failings, past and present. This is the first area which needs to be protested about. The second is Spanish sport. These are two massive targets.

Whether or not the sport is changing is irrelevant, and this is mere speculation, which we should not focus on, as it will be divisive. We should focus on failings and corruption that is visible to all.

 

[zebedee]

Cycling News Forum members could sign the Fuentes online petition.

https://www.change.org/es/peticiones/que-no-se-destruyan-las-bolsas-de-sangre-de-la-operación-puerto

 

[goggalor]

I'm thinking of running next to the peloton dressed as a giant hypodermic needle.