So when did Lance start doping?

[scribe]

There was never any individual in their early teens administering dope to themselves. Aside from a few body-building retards with access to the internet this past dozen years or so, such claims lack basic reasoning.

 

[Digger]

There was never any individual in their early teens administering dope to themselves. Aside from a few body-building retards with access to the internet this past dozen years or so, such claims lack basic reasoning.

An ironic claim by your good self there Scribe.

 

[Elagabalus]

Got a link? Sounds interesting..

Google Greg Strock and all will be revealed. Here's a little primer:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2006/04/news/six-years-later-strock-case-comes-to-court_9763

 

[Altitude]

Google Greg Strock and all will be revealed. Here's a little primer:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2006/04/news/six-years-later-strock-case-comes-to-court_9763

I vaguely recall reading about that. Didn't realize Carmichael was involved.

 

[D-Queued]

There was never any individual in their early teens administering dope to themselves. Aside from a few body-building retards with access to the internet this past dozen years or so, such claims lack basic reasoning.

Love it.

Thought it would be worth consulting a known sources of 'Expertise' on the subject of teens administering injectable dope to themselves. Perhaps some really scary drug like heroin. Not some sissy stuff like 'EPO, go-fast pills, rubbing yourself with testosterone cream or putting a silly T-patch on the sac:

Here is what Liestrong.com has to say about it:

As the perceived risk went down, so did the age of first use of heroin. In 1991, a national survey on drug abuse put the average age of first-time heroin users at 24. By 1995, the average first-time user was 19 years old.

The Partnership for a Drug-Free America launched a heroin abuse campaign in June 1996. The goal was and remains to de-glamorize heroin use. Today, while heroin use continues to be seen among younger and younger Americans, the average age of first use was down to 17.6 in 1997, and reports of kids as young as 13 using heroin are not unheard of.

Don't worry.

While I was on the site, I made sure to click all of the ads to make sure that Lance would directly profit from my visit.

Dave.

 

[Elagabalus]

I vaguely recall reading about that. Didn't realize Carmichael was involved.

Carmichael payed off Strock to leave his name out of the suit. I believe in the SCA Arbitration case Carmichael admitted publicly that he was the unnamed coach.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Love it.

Thought it would be worth consulting a known sources of 'Expertise' on the subject of teens administering injectable dope to themselves. Perhaps some really scary drug like heroin. Not some sissy stuff like 'EPO, go-fast pills, rubbing yourself with testosterone cream or putting a silly T-patch on the sac:

Here is what Liestrong.com has to say about it:

As the perceived risk went down, so did the age of first use of heroin. In 1991, a national survey on drug abuse put the average age of first-time heroin users at 24. By 1995, the average first-time user was 19 years old.

The Partnership for a Drug-Free America launched a heroin abuse campaign in June 1996. The goal was and remains to de-glamorize heroin use. Today, while heroin use continues to be seen among younger and younger Americans, the average age of first use was down to 17.6 in 1997, and reports of kids as young as 13 using heroin are not unheard of.

Dave.

Here in the UK I personaly know of lads of 15 who first used Heroin at 15.
Most begin with smoking it and only a small % go on to inject but addiction is still very strong. Listening to a 20 year old going through cold turkey at 4 in the morning can be quite harrowing.
Ironicly its often a bigger issue in more affluent rurul areas than cities over here.

 

[BroDeal]

There was never any individual in their early teens administering dope to themselves. Aside from a few body-building retards with access to the internet this past dozen years or so, such claims lack basic reasoning.

Don't know much about football in Texas, do you? When the high school jocks were getting roided up, do you think Armstrong said to himself, "Whoah, that stuff is not for me."

Armstrong's nickname was not "Cortisone Neck" for nothing. The doping goes way back before he ever got to Europe.

 

[Polish]

Don't know much about football in Texas, do you? When the high school jocks were getting roided up, do you think Armstrong said to himself, "Whoah, that stuff is not for me."

Armstrong's nickname was not "Cortisone Neck" for nothing. The doping goes way back before he ever got to Europe.

Lance learned how to dope from the football jocks way back in the 1980's"?
C'mon.
You're funny.

The high school jocks learned it from Lance fcol.

Heck, even the NFL learned from 1988 Lance.
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-01-14/sports/sp-1549_1_nfl-players
.
.
.

 

[Dallas_]

We are filling a lot of time frames here.
Maybe the more relevant question is: When was miracle boy not juicing?

cheers

 

[Roland Rat]

As a teenage triathlete.

This was always my assumption. A fatherless young Lance Gunderson looking for acceptance with the other alpha-males at the local gym. He's clearly been doping throughout his cycling career, anyway.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Some people don't understand how serious of a doping problem there is in school sports. Down to the junior high level even.

I'd venture to guess considering his background, quite possibly pre-1990. Not that he was jacked to the gills, just that doping to some degree was definitely possible, and well, you know how the sport and rest of the story goes.

 

[warmfuzzies]

I know of PED use in high school track athletes. To think that some football players don't start using PEDs in junior high is naive. We've created a lottery-esque global culture where it pay$ to be a winner. PED use is much larger than Armstrong, cycling, and sports. It results from our winner-take-all view of life achievement. What is there to lose an an anonymous athlete if you dope? Nobody cares, there is little to zero testing, and getting caught doesn't mean anything. If you win, you get noticed, get a scholorship to college, and perhaps a shot @ going pro. Pro sporting rules against PED use are not enough to eliminate the problem.

 

[Merckx index]

We are filling a lot of time frames here.
Maybe the more relevant question is: When was miracle boy not juicing?

cheers

In this forum, this will probably be a controversial answer to that question, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say LA was probably born clean.

I know of PED use in high school track athletes. To think that some football players don't start using PEDs in junior high is naive. We've created a lottery-esque global culture where it pay$ to be a winner. PED use is much larger than Armstrong, cycling, and sports. It results from our winner-take-all view of life achievement. What is there to lose an an anonymous athlete if you dope? Nobody cares, there is little to zero testing, and getting caught doesn't mean anything. If you win, you get noticed, get a scholorship to college, and perhaps a shot @ going pro. Pro sporting rules against PED use are not enough to eliminate the problem

Actually, there is a lot of evidence that most teen-age PED users do not do it for athletic performance, but just to build up their bodies to appeal to babes. That accounts for the great majority of users at that age.

 

[D-Queued]

In this forum, this will probably be a controversial answer to that question, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say LA was probably born clean.



Actually, there is a lot of evidence that most teen-age PED users do not do it for athletic performance, but just to build up their bodies to appeal to babes. That accounts for the great majority of users at that age.

Fortunately, Lance was never all that concerned or interested in the opposite sex.

Dave.

 

[Paco_P]

There was never any individual in their early teens administering dope to themselves. Aside from a few body-building retards with access to the internet this past dozen years or so, such claims lack basic reasoning.

Growing up in the USA, playing American football, every single high school JV squad had at least a few who everybody knew were on steroids (this some decades ago) (we're talking 15 and 16 year olds). Did they administer themselves? Perhaps papa helped out on that part. Perhaps the strength coach (yes, the football team had its own strength coach). Perhaps they did it themselves. Some of them also kept guns in their lockers. It may defy basic reasoning, but it happened.

 

[Paco_P]

Lance learned how to dope from the football jocks way back in the 1980's"?
C'mon.
You're funny.

The high school jocks learned it from Lance fcol.

Heck, even the NFL learned from 1988 Lance.
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-01-14/sports/sp-1549_1_nfl-players
.
.
.

Having played football in the US south, I can't agree with this. Back in the early 80's every team had its kids pumped full of steroids. Mine certainly did. They thought I was an oddity for riding my bike to practice. No one had ever heard of Lance Armstrong. But they had heard of Lawrence Taylor.

 

[andy1234]

Some people don't understand how serious of a doping problem there is in school sports. Down to the junior high level even.

I'd venture to guess considering his background, quite possibly pre-1990. Not that he was jacked to the gills, just that doping to some degree was definitely possible, and well, you know how the sport and rest of the story goes.

The US system of sports scholarships probably encourages this.
Its a system that doesn't really exist outside the US.

 

[Cloxxki]

Do the US stick to American Football, to not have to deal with global exchanges and tournaments, with connected doping controls?
A random rugby nation should challenge an american dreamteam to come play rugby, subject to independent doping testing as formality.
Not so sure these strength sports are as safe in terms of detection as endurance sports.

 

[hrotha]

Do the US stick to American Football, to not have to deal with global exchanges and tournaments, with connected doping controls?
A random rugby nation should challenge an american dreamteam to come play rugby, subject to independent doping testing as formality.
Not so sure these strength sports are as safe in terms of detection as endurance sports.

That wouldn't be a very good experiment, seeing as how rugby and American football are, well, different sports.

 

[Roland Rat]

Fortunately, Lance was never all that concerned or interested in the opposite sex.

Dave.

Now that would certainly be a twist, if he came out.

Reminds me of a friend at Uni - he was the biggest womaniser at the place, and also had a penchant for the local strippers. He came out in our final year.

 

[scribe]

Growing up in the USA, playing American football, every single high school JV squad had at least a few who everybody knew were on steroids (this some decades ago) (we're talking 15 and 16 year olds). Did they administer themselves? Perhaps papa helped out on that part. Perhaps the strength coach (yes, the football team had its own strength coach). Perhaps they did it themselves. Some of them also kept guns in their lockers. It may defy basic reasoning, but it happened.

No. This was not my experience growing up in the US. I am a year older than Armstrong as well. The thought that he was sophisticated enough (if not devious) to administer himself anything as a developing teenage triathlete is rather stupid, to be frank.

But THIS is the clinic. If it can be dreamed up, it probably happened.

 

[Race Radio]

No. This was not my experience growing up in the US. I am a year older than Armstrong as well. The thought that he was sophisticated enough (if not devious) to administer himself anything as a developing teenage triathlete is rather stupid, to be frank.

But THIS is the clinic. If it can be dreamed up, it probably happened.

Matty D on Lance's Pre-Chris Comical Coach

Rick Crawford who approached my friend David Clinger to do a deal for
coaching which involved drugs including EPO and blood spinners

 

[Race Radio]

The US system of sports scholarships probably encourages this.
Its a system that doesn't really exist outside the US.

You should see the doping that goes on in Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Belgium U23 teams. They are cleaner now but 10 years ago it was insane. Worse then many Pro Tour teams.

 

[hrotha]

You should see the doping that goes on in Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Belgium U23 teams. They are cleaner now but 10 years ago it was insane. Worse then many Pro Tour teams.

It's simple, really. Few controls and an opportunity to turn pro if you win a big race or two. No wonder many pro teams decided to set up or reach agreements with feeder teams, at least that way they know what's going on and who's who.