Spanish empire conquering world of sports - USA Today

[The Hitch]

With a jobless rate among young people of more than 40%, what else can you do all day long than training to become a sports star? The only way out of the mess. (not entirely serious remark, but as sad as it is, might be some truth in it)

You do realise that to make it in football or tennis, training has to start at the age of 4 or 5 - long before you can get any form of employment.

Even if you start at 9 or 10, your chances are slim so the idea that 20 year olds suddenly start to train and become superstars is unreal.

 

[cromagnon]

Say what you like Hitch, but most of those guys will not be seen in sex videos, divorces, affairs, gambling addictions, assault, drunk driving, idiotic twitters, celeb culture or any of the trash of so many sports stars.

Maybe by explanation for it (culture) is inaccurate, but not the basic observation.

 

[The Hitch]

Say what you like Hitch, but most of those guys will not be seen in sex videos, divorces, affairs, gambling addictions, assault, drunk driving, idiotic twitters, celeb culture or any of the trash of so many sports stars.

Maybe by explanation for it (culture) is inaccurate, but not the basic observation.

True, but only a minority of athletes are caught up in those things.
As far as Casillias goes celeb culture does apply, seeing as he and his chat show host girlfriend are Spains number 1 celeb couple.

And whats wrong with sex videos and gambling Is tom boonen arrogant because he like a little bit of the whilte lady of a young lady?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Doping is an industry in Spain. Though their doctors are best at what they are suppose to be doing but worst at keeping it quiet as Spanish riders seem to always get in trouble more than other countries for using the Hot Tomale Sauce!

 

[rhubroma]

I'll give you Contador and Nadal, but the rest? Especially the football team?

Well of the 200 athletes signed with Fuentes, I'd imagine they weren't all ping-pong players.

 

[khardung la]

Sorry guys, but for me most of the posts are just talking common places and non-sense.

There is probably no better place in the World for becoming a good football player than La Massia in Barcelona, to a lesser extent in Lezama (Bilbao). The tennis school in Barcelona, and to a lesser extent in Valencia and Madrid are where many in the World would like to breed a kid to a proffesional. Motor sports, specially in the Mediterranean Coast are HUGE, and there are probably more top-level circuits for moto sports (Jerez, Montmelo, Madrid, Valencia, Albacete...) than in any other country of its size. Spain was good in basketball since I can remember, and in 1984 they were silver Olympic medal against Jordan & co. Same applies to handball or a bunch of other sports (windsurf, beach soccer, judo, taek-wondo, hockey..) : tradition, passion, skilled athletes.

In all those sports doping is not offering a big advantage at all, they are about technique, skills, character.

BUT cycling is another story. Xavi Hernandez success is not about doping, is about pure technique and class. Contador et al more than probably are into doping. The rest of the international cycling elite also, but I agree that specially in Spain not much has been done against it.

To extend the doping suspicion to all succesfull sportmen in Spain is unfair and often roots in envy. Tell Jorge Lorenzo about doping...

 

[hrotha]

Well of the 200 athletes signed with Fuentes, I'd imagine they weren't all ping-pong players.

Make no mistake, I'm sure they dope. The argument that football players don't dope because skills are more important than physical prowess is flawed, because that doesn't mean physical prowess by itself doesn't give you a definite advantage. But in Spain's case you have a team that relies on technical skill more than your average football team, and, more importantly, a team that showed an alarming lack of physical fitness during the World Cup, compared to others like Japan.

 

[The Hitch]

Make no mistake, I'm sure they dope. The argument that football players don't dope because skills are more important than physical prowess is flawed, because that doesn't mean physical prowess by itself doesn't give you a definite advantage. But in Spain's case you have a team that relies on technical skill more than your average football team, and, more importantly, a team that showed an alarming lack of physical fitness during the World Cup, compared to others like Japan.

You think they showed a lack of physical fitness

Their season started in August, the whole Spanish team played about 60 matches throughout the season, in the case of most of them, they will have been considered too important to rest and played every match, 2 times a week 90 minutes. THey then went had a 2 week break and then on to the world cup. There once again, most of them played every match every minute and tbh they didnt rest up at all, but kept it going for the 90 minutes again.

+ people like iniesta xavi are 170 cm tall, but yet they have no problem holding off vastly bigger and stronger opponents. They also have no problem playing a whole season at peak form, and running round none stop for 90 minutes, then doing the whole thing again 3 days later. Repeat this cycle for 1 year, and still no fatigue.

 

[hrotha]

You think they showed a lack of physical fitness

Their season started in August, the whole Spanish team played about 60 matches throughout the season, in the case of most of them, they will have been considered too important to rest and played every match, 2 times a week 90 minutes. THey then went had a 2 week break and then on to the world cup. There once again, most of them played every match every minute and tbh they didnt rest up at all, but kept it going for the 90 minutes again.

+ people like iniesta xavi are 170 cm tall, but yet they have no problem holding off vastly bigger and stronger opponents. They also have no problem playing a whole season at peak form, and running round none stop for 90 minutes, then doing the whole thing again 3 days later. Repeat this cycle for 1 year, and still no fatigue.

Compared to other teams, yes, they did. They were often alarmingly tired in the second half of their games (a particularly glaring example was the Spain-Honduras game, if I recall correctly). The players of the other teams had the same season as the Spanish players and do the same stuff they do, even the small ones. Did you see Japan's games, for example? If you did, you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

[khardung la]

Compared to other teams, yes, they did. They were often alarmingly tired in the second half of their games (a particularly glaring example was the Spain-Honduras game, if I recall correctly). The players of the other teams had the same season as the Spanish players and do the same stuff they do, even the small ones. Did you see Japan's games, for example? If you did, you'll know what I'm talking about.

+1 I never thought Spain would win the Cup because they were completely out of shape.

Anyway, why someone would think that Spain was under doping and the others not, if they play in similar leagues, receive the same doping controls, and have the same means at their disposal??. Germans, dutch, italians, british...they have equally long seasons and competetive leagues. Why the suspicion on the winners and not on the others? Wether they all dope or wether none does. We live in a a global world, specially in elite sports.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Doping is an industry in Spain. Though their doctors are best at what they are suppose to be doing but worst at keeping it quiet as Spanish riders seem to always get in trouble more than other countries for using the Hot Tomale Sauce!

And yet, Australia has had more positive cases than Spain...

It's just amazing the stuff you find when you look for it!

Oh my, my...

 

[paperbackwriter]

Well, Casillas is not so bad anyway, compared to so many other footballers (especially ones who are considered best in the world on their positions, and he's been for years). With Spain's economical situation I'm pretty sure it's all because he knows nothing about it and can't relate, doesn't mean he's an a**. And he's usually okay when it comes to talking about things he knows about, he's never one of those silly Real players saying that RM will seal championship before Easter, crush Barca in Gran Derbi or whatever, he doesn't find stupid excuses after lost match etc.
And I wouldn't judge the whole football team together- for example, hard to compare Pique to Iniesta.

Anyway, I think that being humble regular guy is a side effect of what makes them all so good, which is mental toughness and having their priorities right (which for example, Spanish footballers lacked big time in the past).
They're talented, they've worked very hard and in some cases were prepared by best people since childhood- but sometimes, what gives them the edge, is IMO the confidence they gain from it (and which strangely, top guys from other countries often don't have).
How many times they've won huge things being far from their best or at least in difficult circumstances? Hard to count Nadal's amazing comebacks when he really wasn't the clearly better side, was having a bad day or playing supposedly stronger opponent (on grass / hardcourts). He's a lot less likely to crack than Federer or Murray. Or take Iniesta- undoubtedly he's a great footballer, but when he gave Barca CL final or scored against Holland, it's not thanks to brilliant technique or having a fantastic season/match. Same for Contador- Schleck trying to justify himself saying he missed Frank seems a bit silly when you look at 2009 and what Alberto had to go through to win.
It's like, Spaniards know they're good enough to achieve whatever they want in their sports, but don't expect to have it the easy way. Nadal wouldn't say he lost Wimbledon over a bit of light, and it's not like Sammy Sanchez keeps reminding that he had a fissure in his hand during ITT. No wonder they achieve more than guys who'll always attack next day, win next year when the circumstances are more favorable, lost the match because they were more injured than their injured opponent...

Of course, I'm generalizing and I'm not sure how much it has to do with Spanish mentality and life in Spain (though few things come to mind and it seems a lot more likely to develop such attitude in Spain than in Switzerland or Luxembourg).

 

[Galic Ho]

And yet, Australia has had more positive cases than Spain...

It's just amazing the stuff you find when you look for it!

Oh my, my...

Name them. All the idiots who get caught in local home based testing get popped for recreation drugs. They are League, Union and AFL players. Those who get done for PEDs are mostly body builders, boxers and weightlifters. Mostly steroids. Then there are the few who get caught with something serious, but they are rarely anyone of talent. As for our swimmers...no worse than the randoms who show up one year to the Pan Pacs and then World Champs and barely make a final, or worse don't and then medal the next year at the Olympics. But slagging the British and Yanks is too easy for an Aussie. It is about consistency. Can you back up year in year out? At what stage should someone back off competing and recuperate before their constant playing sets off alarm bells that they're getting some dubious medical help? Each sports authorities should ask these questions and look at their athletes...few do.

We all know the top cream in many sports dope. Soccer is rampant with dopers. Heck, I knew Spain would win the World Cup but damn, not the way they did. The Dutch deserved the win. My sister and I both support Spain. Cesc Fabregas is captain of our favourite team and if it weren't for him, Spain would have lost the final. My sister didn't want Spain to win and she loves their football team. Why? Their attitude. It was disgusting during the world cup. Iniesta and countless others disgraced themselves. Aussies love tough, strong and courageous sports people. The Spanish football team had scoring issues in the World Cup. They solved that by taking dives whenever they could. Yes the Dutch were bad at times, but Spain had endless games where they got lucky. They were a different team to the Euro 2008 champions mentally. It showed in their character on field which was bad to view. Still technically beautiful to watch when they got going.

So to highlight Hitch and the thread title. You may win but do you have character that will prevent you being a douchebag? Some Spanishmen do, but some don't. A lot in their football team are bad eggs. No worse than Englands lot though are they Hitch? I knew Spain would win a lot this year. Especially when Rossi broke his leg. Lorenzo has MotoGP wrapped up. Alonso is doing well with a mediocre Ferrari. Their cyclists keep winning...no surprise there. Nadal has healed and shock horror...wins when someone beats Federrer for him. Their triathletes aren't so crash hot though. Aussies, our women, have them smoked.

So why do people win? In football it is common sense. FIFA and UEFA stop WADA. They've been doing it for years. Operation Puerto was stopped immediately as far as football teams went because Platini and Blatter oversaw that their buddies at Real and Barca sued the paper who mentioned their respective brands. Cycling is the thrashing horse for major doping but the reality is other sports are just as bad. Tennis is. Football is arguably the worst...because nobody ever gets caught, unless of course a players latest conquest squeals to a newspaper about their affair. Caught with your pants down, not doping.

 

[The Hitch]

So to highlight Hitch and the thread title. You may win but do you have character that will prevent you being a douchebag? Some Spanishmen do, but some don't. A lot in their football team are bad eggs. No worse than Englands lot though are they Hitch?

When will people understand that London is one of the most multicultural cities in the world Chances are if you are from London then you are not english. Yes, the behaviour of the ENgland team through the ages makes other teams look like saints. I still stand by my points about Villa, Torres and Casillias.
No excusing Villa punching the Honduran, or Torres anti social behaviour towards the oppositions pitch.
I understand Casillias might not understand what economic depression is, but it was disgraceful to defend the bonus with claims that he had family who were poor hence needed an extra £700 000 for himself. Also both he and iniesta used the deplorable " seperate politics from football" defence when asked about the money they were recieving. In other words they negotiate a huge bonus for themselves, and then claim its none of their business when they are asked about it.

I know this is nothing compared to the England national team, whom the police in this country probably by now register as a gang seeing as half its members have arrests and a police record, but it is still unproffesional behaviour.

 

[The Hitch]

Nadal has healed and shock horror...wins when someone beats Federrer for him. Their triathletes aren't so crash hot though. Aussies, our women, have them smoked.

The argument works better the other way around. Federer has beaten Nadal in gs's twice, both against a younger nadal at federers favourite gs - wimbledon 06 and 07. The rest of the time he needs someone to beat Nadal for him. - Djokovic Us open 07, Murray US Open 08, Soderling French OPen 09, Injury Wimbledon 09, Murray Australian Open 10.

On the other hand Nadal has beaten federer in Grand Slams in French Open 05 - semi, 06 final 07 final 08 final, Wimbledon 08 final and Australian Open 09 final.

In other words Nadal has won 6 of his 8 grand slams by beating Federer. While, with 2 exceptions, both against a very young Nadal, Federer can only win a GS if someone takes Nadal out for him.

 

[khardung la]

But slagging the British and Yanks is too easy for an Aussie. It is about consistency. Can you back up year in year out? At what stage should someone back off competing and recuperate before their constant playing sets off alarm bells that they're getting some dubious medical help? Each sports authorities should ask these questions and look at their athletes...few do.

We all know the top cream in many sports dope. Soccer is rampant with dopers. Heck, I knew Spain would win the World Cup but damn, not the way they did. The Dutch deserved the win. My sister and I both support Spain. Cesc Fabregas is captain of our favourite team and if it weren't for him, Spain would have lost the final. My sister didn't want Spain to win and she loves their football team. Why? Their attitude. It was disgusting during the world cup. Iniesta and countless others disgraced themselves. Aussies love tough, strong and courageous sports people. The Spanish football team had scoring issues in the World Cup. They solved that by taking dives whenever they could. Yes the Dutch were bad at times, but Spain had endless games where they got lucky. They were a different team to the Euro 2008 champions mentally. It showed in their character on field which was bad to view. Still technically beautiful to watch when they got going.

So to highlight Hitch and the thread title. You may win but do you have character that will prevent you being a douchebag? Some Spanishmen do, but some don't. A lot in their football team are bad eggs. No worse than Englands lot though are they Hitch? I knew Spain would win a lot this year. Especially when Rossi broke his leg. Lorenzo has MotoGP wrapped up. Alonso is doing well with a mediocre Ferrari. Their cyclists keep winning...no surprise there. Nadal has healed and shock horror...wins when someone beats Federrer for him. Their triathletes aren't so crash hot though. Aussies, our women, have them smoked.

So why do people win? In football it is common sense. FIFA and UEFA stop WADA. They've been doing it for years. Operation Puerto was stopped immediately as far as football teams went because Platini and Blatter oversaw that their buddies at Real and Barca sued the paper who mentioned their respective brands. Cycling is the thrashing horse for major doping but the reality is other sports are just as bad. Tennis is. Football is arguably the worst...because nobody ever gets caught, unless of course a players latest conquest squeals to a newspaper about their affair. Caught with your pants down, not doping.

Wow, what a nice belicist-like speech. Who is comparing Australia with Spain?? ("aussies, our women, have them smoked"). I think it is childish to be nationalistic about the victories of a bunch of sportsmen, who clearly do not represent at all the values, the culture or the average citizen of a country.

In my case I just say that is senseless to identify the success of many Spanish sportsmen with doping, particularly in sports where technique and character are so important. In the rest of the sports I have the feeling that Australia and Spain have similar rates of doping. This means that if Contador dopes (which I firmly believe) Cadel Evans does also. The advantages of doping in cycling are so inmense that they would be absolutely far from each other if one of them would not dope. Maybe none of them dope, but I don't believe in Santa anymore. I think that blaming another country for doping to excuse or underline other countries' performances is not smart.

However Nadal has beaten Federer most often, and Spanish triathlon is doing well against Australian if we take into account how small triathlon is still in Spain and how growingly important it is in Australia. Next weekend Gomez Noya has a good chance to win the Dextro... and a new generation including the 2009 junior champ is already there. Even Eneko Llanos has a good chance in Kona this year.

 

[sadfitty]

And yet, Australia has had more positive cases than Spain...

It's just amazing the stuff you find when you look for it!

Oh my, my...

It's pretty easy not getting caught when you have a nine hour window where you are free to dope every day.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/World/Story/STIStory_366864.html

Spain is a disgrace when it comes to anti-doping

 

[khardung la]

It's pretty easy not getting caught when you have a nine hour window where you are free to dope every day.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking...ry_366864.html
Spain is a disgrace when it comes to anti-doping

+1 It is funny that they ammended the law you refer to, to include a modification by which in the case that Madrid would be selected to host the Olympics, they would adapt inmediately the Spanish law to suit the 24 hours control of some international doping agencies. The link is http://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2009/09/19/pdfs/BOE-A-2009-14829.pdf if you speak Spanish.

Again, being their doping policy ashaming and disgraceful does IMHO nothing to do with the Spanish succes in some sports. Cycling aside, of course.

 

[paperbackwriter]

I so don't agree Dutch team deserved to win. They showed nothing during the tournament and managed to be even more brutal than in the match against Portugal two years ago. No joy, not a trace of their traditional offensive style, which was so good to watch and it's not like they are angels compared to Spain when it comes to honourable behaviour (actually, they're all worth each other). It's a shame that Italy were so bad this year, they could meet and Netherlands would see how to play this anti-football with imaginativeness. Generally, they've switched roles with Germany I guess.
Spain on the other hand had all of their opponents knowing that the only way to stop them is doing Mourinho on them. They played their football against Switzerland, constructed many (at least) decent actions and just couldn't beat really super-defensive team, then the history was repeating over and over again with diffent ending, which made them look less impressive. I really liked to watch Germany in this World Cup, but I'm pretty sure if Spain faced teams as unstructured as this year's Argentina or England, especially if they weren't favourites- they'd do just as good.

With Federer, not only Rafa has a good record against him in GS, but this season- maybe up to now, when he shows some form again- Roger was so totally beatable. If I was Nadal, I definitely wouldn't have minded playing him on clay and on grass, wasn't Murray a bigger threat?

BTW, is it only my impression or is it really ridiculously easy to buy recreational drugs in Spain? If the latter option, I wouldn't care much about anti-doping also, as there're bigger issues to deal with.

 

[indurain666]

Wow lots of haters we have around the globe.

Why can't you guys accept that maybe Spain has been developing better professional athletes over the last twenty years?

To the guy that claims that athletes are so good due to unemployment rates: that is one of the most idiotic and ignorant arguments I have heard. You do realize that it takes a good 15 years to develop a professional athlete? It also takes a lot of money to develop elite athletes. Only argument that would make sense is to better channel this money to those citizens who actually need it as opposed to use it to develop olympic athletes, pro cyclist, tennis players, etc.

I do realize that a lof of Spanish athletes do dope but the likes of Marion Jones, Barry Bonds, Ben Johnson, Ian Thorpe, Schumacher, Ricardo Ricco, Jan Ullrich do dope too so what is the argument if all athletes do juice?

Another idiotic argument against Spanish athletes: Spain's anti doping is a joke. You do realize that WADA, IOC does not test Spanish athletes differently please...

I do disagree that all spanish athletes are humble, some of them are assholes some of them are good guys.

Check Eurostats, Spains economy is ****ed up, it only grew 0.5% last year, obviously way behind Germany but just as screwed up as other EU countries such as UK, Ireland, etc.

Sorry haters but the facts are: Spanish athletes are kicking **** at the moment Nadal has made Roger cry twice, they won the world cup, TDF, etc.

 

[Mich78BEL]

We all know the top cream in many sports dope. Soccer is rampant with dopers. Heck, I knew Spain would win the World Cup but damn, not the way they did. The Dutch deserved the win. My sister and I both support Spain. Cesc Fabregas is captain of our favourite team and if it weren't for him, Spain would have lost the final. My sister didn't want Spain to win and she loves their football team. Why? Their attitude. It was disgusting during the world cup. Iniesta and countless others disgraced themselves. Aussies love tough, strong and courageous sports people. The Spanish football team had scoring issues in the World Cup. They solved that by taking dives whenever they could. Yes the Dutch were bad at times, but Spain had endless games where they got lucky. They were a different team to the Euro 2008 champions mentally. It showed in their character on field which was bad to view. Still technically beautiful to watch when they got going.

So to highlight Hitch and the thread title. You may win but do you have character that will prevent you being a douchebag? Some Spanishmen do, but some don't. A lot in their football team are bad eggs. No worse than Englands lot though are they Hitch? I knew Spain would win a lot this year. Especially when Rossi broke his leg. Lorenzo has MotoGP wrapped up. Alonso is doing well with a mediocre Ferrari. Their cyclists keep winning...no surprise there. Nadal has healed and shock horror...wins when someone beats Federrer for him. Their triathletes aren't so crash hot though. Aussies, our women, have them smoked.

So why do people win? In football it is common sense. FIFA and UEFA stop WADA. They've been doing it for years. Operation Puerto was stopped immediately as far as football teams went because Platini and Blatter oversaw that their buddies at Real and Barca sued the paper who mentioned their respective brands. Cycling is the thrashing horse for major doping but the reality is other sports are just as bad. Tennis is. Football is arguably the worst...because nobody ever gets caught, unless of course a players latest conquest squeals to a newspaper about their affair. Caught with your pants down, not doping.

you really don't know anything about football if you think spain didn't deserve to win

 

[icefire]

Results of Spanish pilots in yesterday's GP San Marino. 3 races, 3 wins, 7 podium places. Any guess of what's going on? WADA should test their fuel!

 

[indurain666]

Doping is an industry in Spain. Though their doctors are best at what they are suppose to be doing but worst at keeping it quiet as Spanish riders seem to always get in trouble more than other countries for using the Hot Tomale Sauce!

Is that the reason pro cyclists go to Dr. Ferrari in Italy give me a break dude

 

[indurain666]

you really don't know anything about football if you think spain didn't deserve to win

+1, its funny when people that don't know anything about football always use the "diving" card to try support senseless arguments.

 

[icefire]

Doping is an industry in Spain. Though their doctors are best at what they are suppose to be doing but worst at keeping it quiet as Spanish riders seem to always get in trouble more than other countries for using the Hot Tomale Sauce!

Doping in Spain is an art practised by a few devoted individuals such as Dr Fuentes and the likes. I'd say doping industry would be Humanplasma. And Freiburg University would be doping academia