sadfitty said:
Spanish athletes get tested outside Spain as much as Australians or anybody else do.
And yet our athletes are less likely to test positive than their Australian counterparts.
Spanish athletes get tested outside Spain as much as Australians or anybody else do.
And yet our athletes are less likely to test positive than their Australian counterparts.
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icefire said:Doping in Spain is an art practised by a few devoted individuals such as Dr Fuentes and the likes. I'd say doping industry would be Humanplasma. And Freiburg University would be doping academia
I think Fuentes "doping boutique" had more than one outlet.
- Aug 12, 2009
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khardung la said:Wow, what a nice belicist-like speech. Who is comparing Australia with Spain?? ("aussies, our women, have them smoked"). I think it is childish to be nationalistic about the victories of a bunch of sportsmen, who clearly do not represent at all the values, the culture or the average citizen of a country.
In my case I just say that is senseless to identify the success of many Spanish sportsmen with doping, particularly in sports where technique and character are so important. In the rest of the sports I have the feeling that Australia and Spain have similar rates of doping. This means that if Contador dopes (which I firmly believe) Cadel Evans does also. The advantages of doping in cycling are so inmense that they would be absolutely far from each other if one of them would not dope. Maybe none of them dope, but I don't believe in Santa anymore. I think that blaming another country for doping to excuse or underline other countries' performances is not smart.
However
Who gives a flying F*%K? My favourite bike rider is Valverde. Second favourite Contador. Favourite F1 driver is Alonso. I couldn't give a stuff about your nationality, but it seems you're a little touchy about my opinions concerning triathlon. When a Spaniard wins a triathlon world title other than Gomez you can get back to me. Even better when they back up. Aussies are by far the worlds strongest. We have dozens of competitors tearing the sport up. Heck, 40 years back eight of the top 10 tennis players were Aussies. Things change, this is now, I called it as it is. Every sport has cycles. Spain has a lot of sports stars flourishing right now. As I said in my post which I believe you chose not to quote: I predicted this years back. The numbers were there.
So what about Nedal? He is doping...nobody can play as aggressively as he does and not take a major hit physically. Wait...Nedal already has and he recovered quickly. Most tennis players return but at a lower form from similar injuries. I can think of one awesome Aussie tennis player who falls into that category. Everyone with half a brain knows what goes on in world sports. Tennis players dope with the best of them. Federer's weakness is not Nedal, it is himself. He hands Nedal victory far too often. Take technology out of the game and go back to the 60s. Federed would still win, because he has the finest form available...Nedal wouldn't. Everyone who follows tennis knows this but can still appreciate what both offer. As I said...times change. It really is about the individual and who they are. Cycling for one is about personalities. There are so many, one is never stuck for choice. Other sports should be so lucky.
As for doping. China had a green light to dope in Beijing. They turned up to the swimming and annihilated an Aussie world champion, smashing world records in the womens fly by 1.5 seconds. That is just one event in one sport. Their womens gymnastics team forged birth certificates so children could compete. The tallest member of the US womens team is 5'3", she looked like a giant next to half the Chinese kids. Am I surprised? No...the Chinese constructed and staffed the doping centre for Olympic controls. Study Communist China at depth and you already know what was happening. Nothing good.
But wait it gets better. Britain will have a peak in sporting accomplishments over the next two years? Why? Olympics again. We saw it in Beijing. British athletes appeared out of the woodwork and suddenly were Olympic medal winners and champions. Far more than four years prior. That number will go up in 2012. Watch the athletics and swimming world championships for an idea. Watch the Olympic sports. British athletes will suddenly start competing above par. They will improve, right up to the point where they will be medal chances come London 2012. Home team always has to medal above what they normally do. Some teams can come close in later years, but home advantage always gives more winners. It isn't positive thinking...it's the stuff they stick in the water. Shock horror...the IOC know about it and don't care. If they did care, China would never have gotten the Olympics and neither would have Britain or Greece. It's about money and who you can buy to give you the power seat for a four year period. Oh and while I'm at it...Australia got the same treatment, but at least we put bums on seats at every event and had a public who cheered, not jeered, all competitors. I cannot say the same for anyone after 2000.
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Mich78BEL said:
Go drown your sorrows fool. They dived like pros. Italy did as well. Did you see how they played when New Zealand drew ahead of them in their final game? They quit the BS. This world cup was god damn awful. Spain struggled to score the entire Tournament. The Dutch and Germans cut their bad behaviour down. Everyone in Australia knows football is played by prima donna *** who milk everything. The WC is rigged and shock horror, the average Aussie has been saying as much for the past two WCs.
Rules fluctuate, referees forget the rules. FIFA is a bought and paid for institution. It is an old boys club and you have to kiss **** to get in. Duhhhh!. Wake up. Go out and play the bloody game. Grown men go down and act like sooks over nothing. Remember how Kaka was ejected from the WC? He deserved a red that match, but not for what he was handed one for. I thought it hilarious. Robinho looked like a demented possessed nutter. He blew his top when the ref ruled one call against Brazil. Football at the WC is about entitlement. Some teams know they will get treated a particular way because they are...well a big deal, past winners, etc. They have a history and FIFA do their best to maintain this biased status quo.
For the record...you're like this other goofball who replied to me. You don't read. I said I picked Spain to win two years before they did. There is a nice story behind it but I'll save it for another time. Yes, they deserved the win, so did the Dutch (Arjen Robben should have scored once, if not twice) but the manner they did sickened/perturbed some fans of their team who weren't biased, dirt poor, patriotic red blooded, siesta loving home grown Spaniards, who always cheer for their country. Short story...drop the diving and BS appealing like a little ***** and play ball. They have the skill, so why all the crap? It's because it is tolerated. It is also because footballers, collectively, are pussies. If a Pommie, Saffer, Kiwi or Aussie Union player ran into one physically...god help us, the poor European/South American footballer would probably die after touching skin. Oh and Portugal were the best team in South Africa. Spain got really, really lucky...wait, correction, FIFA had their back.
Galic Ho said:
I guess I am the goofball
. Again, I think you use very strong words and belicist vocabulary. It is sad that you blame other sportmen or countries when one Aussie is not winning (which obviously is not right, they should win all the time ). This time it was China and soon the UK. OK, good, you are right, no need to get excited.
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The Hitch said:
I know. I watched all of them. I only mentioned Nedal because his particular playing style and the damge toll on his body suggest he would be a prime suspect for doping amongst the tennis fraternity. Even dopers train hard. Also in a non-gay manner, check out his physique and ask yourself how can he play matches as long as he has in recent slams and backup a day later and go for another 4 or 5 hours in a 5 setter? A slimer, less muscular guy could, but they'd lack the power strokes to win. Nedal is the best player in the world who doesn't have a classical playing style like Emerson and Laver. Federed does, Djokovic does as well. They'd all be candidates for the doping in Tennis chat, Andy Murray as well...but the title thread is about Spaniards and Nedal's style is the most suspect. Great personality and player though...wait, I've heard that before. Nice guys don't dope.
I love how all the Spaniards jump on here and defend their countrymen.
I don't give a toss where you come from, but doping is doping. Institutionalised doping is far worse. Think East Germany and the USSR. China in the 90s. Think the ICC and world cricket right now. ****stan have been caught, again, with institutionalised match fixing in Test matches. Despite all the generalisations, the consensus in the Clinic has not changed since this forum started and that is things are obvious and no matter of denial will change that or for that matter lack of concrete proof. We all know Lance doped. We all know cycling has a torrid doping history. These are the givens, some things aren't but the signs suggest they are. When you win, or as a nation, produce winners across the board, talk of doping always comes up at some point. Cringe if you want, project and try to distort discussion, but at least be honest. It really is the best policy. Spain is the whipping boy for this right now and in recent history. It isn't just the weather cyclists move to Spain for. Half the Pro Tour teams are based there. Heck, in LA to Landis, the author talked to guys who bought EPO clearly visible and available from chemist/drug store shelves. On that note, sports across the board are played because they are fun, entertaining and good for you. Aussies believe hard work, a fair go, honesty and deceny all combine to form a spirit of each sport. Deviate in any manner and you will be called out. Typically, Europeans don't like it when 'diving' is mentioned in football. Ever wonder why that sport is not king in Canada, Sout Africa, Australia, NZ and the USA? We're tough people and play rough sports. There is a line of acceptable behaviour in all sports. Ask the Irish if that line was crossed in the last year. Better yet, ask them how tough our Aussie rules players are. The Irish, who are know brawlers, stopped our cross code Gaelic football/AFL hybrid series because our Aussie team literally used the matches as punch ups. The Irish kept getting flogged. I hope that illustrates in a very drawn out, but in fact, very short manner, what Aussies are really like and why when we see grown mean tripping over a slight tap we call it BS. Better yet go watch Bear Grylls when he visited Australia's outback to get an idea of the type of people we are and why I posted. Australia is a tough wilderness and likewise, the people are a match. Better yet you Spaniards, go step on Cadel's dog next time he races in Spain and see what happens!
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khardung la said:I guess I am the goofball
Wake up goofball. I said my favourite athletes nationality has nothing to do with my support. How many Spaniards did I say I support. A lot. A lot. Fabregas is my favourite footballer and no, Barca cannot have him. You're coming across as another victim of blind patriotism. Give ACF94 a call. He's patented that on these forums, he can give you tips. You may be your nations version of him.
Did I say I gave a toss about winning? I care more about the manner you conduct yourself and the attitude shown during competition. I take interest in triathlon because as I sport I believe it is the purest sport there is. It has the three purest sports rolled into one. Look at it's history. Australia was and still is the premier exponent and competing nation in that sport. Deal with it.
As for blame? No, just a careful example. Note the swimming event I used was done so for a reason. I was talking about home nations given prop ups and leniency in years preceding their home Olympics and how suddenly thet win a lot more than they did. Remember two Greek athletes in the run up to Athens 2004? Can you name them? Can you tell me their results and events from 2000? Do you remember their claims and behaviour leading into Athens? Do you remember what happened after? Doping and an athletes results often best make sense once someone is caught? Why? Because the alarm has been raised and people who once glanced and looked away actually maintain their focus and use their brains to question. That is what goes on in the Clinic. Well, it is what use to. Clinic hasn't been the same as it was last year. Last year it was highly enlightening. This year it is full of people shifting blame and denials. Also people asking old, already answered questions, most involving Lance. Back on topic.
The Aussie swimmer, Jessica Schipper, suffered the ignomity of having her own coach provide her training program to the Chinese girls who beat her. The Chinese girls had never, ever, podiumed at a championship event and both broke, by substantial time, Schippers world record. At the Aqua Dome, to me, it was the most obvious sign of suspect performance. I will spell it out for you. Any world champion, with a history of performance, who is suddenly beaten by some random and still puts in a stellar performance, should feel gipped. Obvious to mention...nationalities are trivial.
I'll go one better. Name your nationality and one champion who you think is clean from your home nation. Their body has to be capable of doping. Motor sports don't count. Can you do it? Are you Spanish? I cannot wait, because we've all heard the denials and excuses before from the Dutch, Poms, even the Aussies. Some of us are just here to discuss doping and as I said before, some, like me, couldn't care what country or banner you fall under. No one is immune. All should be accountable...but given the ideologies and cultures of some nations, I can understand why that is hard to bear.
My name is Khardung La for you, please.Galic Ho said:
Galic Ho said:
Are you saying that anyone can buy EPO in a pharmacy in Spain?? Oh my God, fools rush in where angels fear to tread.
Galic Ho said:
Thriathlon is still a very young sport in Spain, actually just a few people knows about Gomez Noya existence, but I'm sure that someday a Spanish triathlete doper and cheater will appear and will beat the aussies.
By the way:
Nadal playing style
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Nadal#Playing_style
Spanish football playing style
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiki-taka
Seriously dude, have some sex and then post if you want.
I gotta say I ****ed in my pants when I saw Gallic Ho's meltdowns...
Seeing someone lose it like that is goddamn funny.
Seeing someone lose it like that is goddamn funny.
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khardung la said:
If you don't like it princess, the door is in the top right corner marked by an X. Another weak minded Europhile. Wah, wah.
EPO on shelves in Spain is old news goofball. If you look back over the hundreds of threads you missed, then one thing will be apparent. I'm not making this up, just reiterating old, old news for a single minded dimwit. As I said, leave. I said you use to be able to buy EPO in Spain back when a particular book was written. Go and buy it. Better yet name the author and book I mentioned. Search the threads for the books title and you'll find pictures of the brand and vials of EPO. Your ilk is the reason the Clinic blows these days. This is the umpteenth time I've had to correct you. Your new name is goofball, because you are really, really thick and daft. As I said, if you're petulant mind cannot stomach what is said, then leave and don't let the door hit your **** on the way out.
- Jun 14, 2010
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while i have defended Nadal on this thread, i despise the way the tennis commentators fawn over him
"we are so lucky to have this guy as our ambassador, other sports would kill to have a gentlemen like him"
anyway, the eurosport team has just discussed the "why are there so many top Spanish tennis players". Quoting some Spanish trainer from the New York Times they gave the following explenation
In Spain juniors are given the same ranking system as the seniors. So with Nadal number 1, Verdasco 2 etc and the juniors are given their overall ranking in Spain.
Wow. With this ranking system in place, im amazed there are any non Spanish players even remaining in this US Open
"we are so lucky to have this guy as our ambassador, other sports would kill to have a gentlemen like him"
anyway, the eurosport team has just discussed the "why are there so many top Spanish tennis players". Quoting some Spanish trainer from the New York Times they gave the following explenation
In Spain juniors are given the same ranking system as the seniors. So with Nadal number 1, Verdasco 2 etc and the juniors are given their overall ranking in Spain.
Wow. With this ranking system in place, im amazed there are any non Spanish players even remaining in this US Open
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Señor_Contador said:
WTF have you been smoking? I'm quite calm and collected. Is English your primary language? Sure doesn't sound like it, because you've gauged the scope of my points in the wrong light. Every thing I typed was said as a matter of pure opinion...no rage, anguish or tension in there. I sure did love the instant denial and one sentence dismissals I received at the drop of a hat for daring to mention something about Europeans. Typical though...as I've said, you should have been here for the Poms when we said Wigans was doping, or the Dutch when Gesink's name came up.
But I do wish new forum members would look at old posts before starting new ones. At least 50% in the Clinic are rehashing old stuff. Some guys, Hitch was one, mentioned earlier this year that there should have been signs Lance had cancer via race testing protocols...but he never showed signs. Long story in condensed form...this was old news and mentioned several times in great depth the previous year. Just as Spain winning lots of stuff is old news. No shock there and yes, doping is involved. Real and Barca have medical programs. AC Milan also has a very famous medical program. Ask Beckham about it.
As for Nedal...to Spaniard who posted the link, I am too tired to read it. As for the triathlon...keep dreaming champ. Your nation won't beat our women anytime in the next decade. Half our top 5 have been sick over the last seasons and yet they still beat everyone else as a collective group quite easily. Then again, our football team won't beat Spains. But then again, Spain won't like our team physically out muscling them. That's just calling it as it is. Nationality is secondary dude. Just because it is mentioned does not mean it is a motivating factor in it being referenced.
If you Spaniards haven't figured it out yet I mentioned FIFA and the IOC because institutionalised recognition of doping is not where it should be. Spain, ironically has been accused of waning in this area for quite some time. Hence my referencing other similar issues. As for the WC being rigged to a degree. When back to back matches have glaring administrative errors, what do you boys call that? Stupidity? Ignorance? Malpractice? It is cheating, plain and simple. Bought and paid for, details are missing and it is no surprise people don't ask about it in Europe...a trend evident throughout recent European history, you don't ask questions to which you already know answers or don't want to be told the truth. Anyone care to take a crack at who will win the next WC? Brazil would be the obvious choice...I dare anyone suggest otherwise!
Galic Ho said:
What have you been smoking? Have you ever seen your team playing? No offense, but...no comparison. Besides, have you ever seen the stats (weight/height, bodyfat) of the likes of Valdez, Puyol, Ramos, Pique ? Do some research before you use the dumb argument of "physical soccer" style of game. You obviously have no clue whatsoever about soccer.
Half of your female triathletes have been sick for years??? You must have some pretty strong viruses down there
Make sure Skippy is vaccinated Buying EPO OTC in Spain? Have you ever been there??
I have seen idiotic arguments on these forums, but you win man
- Jun 16, 2009
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Nadal completes career Slam by winning US Open title
.
Click just in: http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/09/14/10/nadal-wins-us-open-completes-career-slam
Click: http://www.triathlon.org/news/article/brownlee_wins_in_budapest_as_gomez_claims_2010_world_title/
Dextro Energy Triathlon ITU World Championship 2010 Budapest > for the 2nd time in a row
1 Javier Gómez Noya /ESP) {Campeon del mundo}
2 Steffen Justus (GER)
3 Brad Kahlefeldt (AUS)
Triathlon and Grand Slam in one week with all that Vuelta power still at large where does it stop !
.
Click just in: http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/09/14/10/nadal-wins-us-open-completes-career-slam
Click: http://www.triathlon.org/news/article/brownlee_wins_in_budapest_as_gomez_claims_2010_world_title/
Dextro Energy Triathlon ITU World Championship 2010 Budapest > for the 2nd time in a row
1 Javier Gómez Noya /ESP) {Campeon del mundo}
2 Steffen Justus (GER)
3 Brad Kahlefeldt (AUS)
Triathlon and Grand Slam in one week with all that Vuelta power still at large where does it stop !
- Jun 16, 2009
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Wednesday, September 15, 2010; 8:59 AM
WashingtonPost: "Nadal insists he's not Spain's greatest athlete"
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/15/AR2010091500440.html
WashingtonPost: "Nadal insists he's not Spain's greatest athlete"
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/15/AR2010091500440.html
khardung la said:
Hey khardung la, can you walk into any Spanish pharmacy and purchase EPO without a prescription?
DAOTEC said:
He isn't. He knows Miguel Indurain is the one who started this sports craze. I mean, I was living in Spain at the time and can attest to the fact that once Miguel got his second TdF win... let's just say everyone was riding their recreational bicycles in a TT position with TT handlebars.
Miguelón is and will always be the best Spanish athlete of all time IMO.
- Jun 16, 2009
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Señor_Contador his full name is Miguelón Ángel Indurain Larraya—1.88 m (6 ft 2 in) and 80 kg (176 lbs)— and he is Basque cômprèndè.
So supposed to be in this thread: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=10095
Here you have 'Big Mig'—16 July 1964—(1964-07-16) (age 46) at a Eus team pres last month:
PezCyclingNews: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=8521
So supposed to be in this thread: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=10095
Here you have 'Big Mig'—16 July 1964—(1964-07-16) (age 46) at a Eus team pres last month:
PezCyclingNews: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=8521
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I think Contador will surpass big mig. And Nadal will probably surpass Mig at some point seeing as he has so many gs in him.Señor_Contador said:
I dont think any of the footballers will be top because, even if they have winners medals, Messi is obviously a much much better footballer than them so they wont have been the top athletes in their sport.
And for the laureus sportsman of the year nomination, Spain are going to have a few names in it. no footballers though. the world player of the yearis taking the football spot. that will be messi. Nadal will take a spot obviously. Contador will get nominated because he got nominated last year and because they start nominating cyclists after 2 tdf wins. 2 other spots. Possibly for f1 or moto gp or athletics or swimming or whatever. Also the organisations man crush bolt hasnt done anything this year but that might not stop him from getting the award seeing as they bizzarely chose him over Phelps in 08.
Usually they would give the world player of the year award to a world cup winner but messi has been so head and shoulders above everyone this year he will get it.
DAOTEC said:Señor_Contador his full name is Miguelón Ángel Indurain Larraya—1.88 m (6 ft 2 in) and 80 kg (176 lbs)— and he is Basque cômprèndè.
So supposed to be in this thread: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=10095
Here you have 'Big Mig'—16 July 1964—(1964-07-16) (age 46) at a Eus team pres last month:
PezCyclingNews: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=8521
One of the few cyclists i wouldnt want to have a fight with.
Señor_Contador said:
Hola Senor Contador. Eso es justo lo que he dicho, que no se puede ir a una farmacia y comprar EPO. I think you misunderstood my message
DAOTEC said:
Let him explain you what he is: an interview in La Vanguardia, a catalonian newspaper. Year 1991.
http://hemeroteca.lavanguardia.es/preview/1991/07/25/pagina-26/33484847/pdf.html
"Soy español y me hace ilusión, pero no le doy un valor especial" = I am Spanish and I am happy about it, but I do not place a special value on it .
Sorry, I find difficult to translate it better.
To the question if he is Basque also he answered he is "from Navarra which is pretty much the same".
Anyway what does it have to do with anything? He is the best Spanish cyclist ever (for now). Which means that he is the best Navarrean cyclist ever. If you want he was also the best Basque cyclist ever. Like this everyone is happy
Ye Lorenzo in Moto GP is only winning because he's doped... so obvious!!
On a more serious note. The football team is so good because of the grassroots youth system they have. Maybe they dope a little but I'm pretty sure everyone is at it. Same goes for all the other sport. AC is the only one where I would say the dope is a major influence in him dominating. The rest of them. It's purely down to skill and lifelong dedication. If the Spanish are really so doped up where are the T&F stars challenging the East Africans, Jamaicans and Americans?
On a more serious note. The football team is so good because of the grassroots youth system they have. Maybe they dope a little but I'm pretty sure everyone is at it. Same goes for all the other sport. AC is the only one where I would say the dope is a major influence in him dominating. The rest of them. It's purely down to skill and lifelong dedication. If the Spanish are really so doped up where are the T&F stars challenging the East Africans, Jamaicans and Americans?
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