Spanish empire conquering world of sports - USA Today

[D-Queued]

Spain’s “Golden Year” of sport tarnished by year’s end.

December 16, 2010 | “Bravo España!” said President Nicolas Sarkozy of France in late July as he barged into a television interview during the Tour de France to shake hands with ...

[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/17sports-spain.html]

Somebody just sank the Armada.

The future holds only the prospect of the Inquisition.

Dave.

 

[Señor_Contador]

Somebody just sank the Armada.

The future holds only the prospect of the Inquisition.

Dave.

Methinks we're going to be dancing on your last nerve for a long, long time.

 

[Paco_P]

You think they showed a lack of physical fitness

Their season started in August, the whole Spanish team played about 60 matches throughout the season, in the case of most of them, they will have been considered too important to rest and played every match, 2 times a week 90 minutes. THey then went had a 2 week break and then on to the world cup. There once again, most of them played every match every minute and tbh they didnt rest up at all, but kept it going for the 90 minutes again.

+ people like iniesta xavi are 170 cm tall, but yet they have no problem holding off vastly bigger and stronger opponents. They also have no problem playing a whole season at peak form, and running round none stop for 90 minutes, then doing the whole thing again 3 days later. Repeat this cycle for 1 year, and still no fatigue.

Peak form? Players for Barca and Real Madrid take the entire professional season, with the exception of the two games between Barca and Real Madrid, and ten or so Champions League games, on a glide. The Spanish football league is a completely non-competitive two team affair, with Atleti and Villareal fighting with Getafe (!) and some random other team (e.g. Malaga) to make it to European competition. This year was anomalous in that all these guys had to play hard all summer, because they were expected to win the World Cup.

 

[sniper]

Watch the video, read the text, and learn some more about the average (note the emphasis, I don't wanna overgeneralize) Spanish mindset regarding their sportive success:

http://es.eurosport.yahoo.com/chorreo-digital/article/15577/

"En motociclismo, natación, tenis, y particularmente fútbol, no ha habido quien nos tosiera. Por eso era necesario, para cerrar el 2010, volver la vista atrás y no quedarse con los borrones o las sospechas de ídem, sino alzar la cabeza y sentirse orgullosos de todo lo conseguido."

And then realize: "el anuncio (...) se emitirá justo antes del mensaje navideño de S.M el Rey".

 

[The Hitch]

That advert is a disgrace. How can they not mention Contador. He has done nothing that 90% of the names in the advert havent done. And i thought they were all defending him for being clean. Now hes getting thrown under the bus. Disgrace.

This advert seems like a childish "nah nah nah nah nah, you cant touch us" from the real big boys of sport. Obviously no one outside sports where you really do have to go throguh pain and grit to win, has been touched. People on here might think that Contador is famous, but compared to them hes not, and no one with true world fame and money has been touched.

That ****es me off and they are just rubbing it in.

I really hope these guys get caught.

Failing that i hope Nadals knee problems (caused through his own ped use) continue, that other guy stops being good at whatever it is he does, and that they no matter how many "nation saving" goals iniesta scores, they never find a way to make him less ugly (or brainless for that matter).

Yes i am that kind of person sometimes. Only to bad guys though.


Oh and whoever it is that told me that Spain saw the wc as a one time reason to party, why are they STILL going on about it?

They just had a film made about it for Christmas to be shown at peak time.

 

[The Hitch]

Oh and whoever it is that told me that Spain saw the wc as a one time reason to party, why are they STILL going on about it?

They just had a film made about it for Christmas to be shown at peak time.

 

[khardung la]

Wow Hitch, are you the grinch ?

That advert is a disgrace. How can they not mention Contador. He has done nothing that 90% of the names in the advert havent done. And i thought they were all defending him for being clean. Now hes getting thrown under the bus. Disgrace.

It is a Nike advertisement. Contador is not welcomed with that brand for obvious reasons. Moreover he is most probably a doper, hence not a good example to show.

This advert seems like a childish "nah nah nah nah nah, you cant touch us" from the real big boys of sport.

No, it is an advertisement where Nike follows up another of about 2 years ago. The sportmen in this add are basically saying: "yes there is a crisis, but look how many spaniards made great things and got to be the best in sports this year (swimming, judo, sailing, triathlon, football, tennis, motorbikes etc....). You can do that also in your field, be proud and keep going."

There is no obvious doping defense or justification there.

Failing that i hope Nadals knee problems (caused through his own ped use) continue, that other guy stops being good at whatever it is he does, and that they no matter how many "nation saving" goals iniesta scores, they never find a way to make him less ugly (or brainless for that matter).

Wow, that sound like real irrational hatred! You must really be the Christmas grinch

Oh and whoever it is that told me that Spain saw the wc as a one time reason to party, why are they STILL going on about it?

I was one of them. Who goes on about it?? Nike???? They are trying to sell more sport products in Spain by telling the people you can do like these guys did, if they could you could. It is silly but I do not think it is innovative or a surprise. Just check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgpBJna3V0k& feature=related They use the USA, USA! thing and the national anthem to sell more shoes. Silly, but probably it works.

They just had a film made about it for Christmas to be shown at peak time.

Again "them" is Nike, not those athletes or the Spanish people.

 

[sniper]

Khardung. I understand your arguments.
Now, can you also explain why "el anuncio (...) se emitirá justo antes del mensaje navideño de S.M el Rey"?

 

[khardung la]

Khardung. I understand your arguments.
Now, can you also explain why "el anuncio (...) se emitirá justo antes del mensaje navideño de S.M el Rey"?

It is huge prime time, when traditionally the families gather to have Xmas dinner and watch traditional programs on TV. Big brands always aim for that kind of moments in the spanish TVs (a bit like in the USA with Superbowl)

It is even bigger prime time in New Year (24:01 of the 1st of December), so big brands pay even much more to appear. I don´t know if Nike will get that prime time also, but most probably they will show that add again in the following minutes to be one of the first advertisers of the year.

It is a matter of marketing. Money. Exposure.

Also do not forget that the Nike add is based on a summary of Spanish sport in 2010. This is what you could expect people do in the last days of December every year: to reflect on the past year with the wishes focused in the next. It is the same here in Sweden, probably the same in your country too.

 

[The Hitch]

Again "them" is Nike, not those athletes or the Spanish people.

No i was reffering to something else.

Canal + made the film i reffered to in my second post

http://www.elpais.com/videos/deport...ba/adentro/elpepudep/20101224elpepudep_4/Ves/

 

[sniper]

It is huge prime time, when traditionally the families gather to have Xmas dinner and watch traditional programs on TV. Big brands always aim for that kind of moments in the spanish TVs (a bit like in the USA with Superbowl)

It is even bigger prime time in New Year (24:01 of the 1st of December), so big brands pay even much more to appear. I don´t know if Nike will get that prime time also, but most probably they will show that add again in the following minutes to be one of the first advertisers of the year.

It is a matter of marketing. Money. Exposure.

Also do not forget that the Nike add is based on a summary of Spanish sport in 2010. This is what you could expect people do in the last days of December every year: to reflect on the past year with the wishes focused in the next. It is the same here in Sweden, probably the same in your country too.

Plus, Nike knows how to turn on the average Spanish guy. Such a commercial would arouse disgust in many other countries.

 

[khardung la]

No i was reffering to something else.

Canal + made the film i reffered to in my second post

http://www.elpais.com/videos/deport...ba/adentro/elpepudep/20101224elpepudep_4/Ves/

I checked the thread and I have no idea what are you talking about other than you was referring to the advertisement (Nike).

Anyway the "film" you are referring to is a reportage of "El Informe Robinson" a monthly program about Spanish sports that has been broadcasted in Canal + Spain for many years. The program is led by the English ex-football player Michael Robinson, who also is the director of "El dia despues", a long running weekly program specifically devoted to spanish football.

What is the deal in talking about the World Cup win in a program about spanish sport led by an ex-football player??

 

[The Hitch]

What is the deal in talking about the World Cup win in a program about spanish sport led by an ex-football player??

The fact that the documentary itself is a big story in the countries main daily newspaper, or it was yesterday anyway. Im more influenced by the fact that every now and again that i try spanish radio, i keep hearing about the success of la roja, and so this, while may seem a small thing, simply furhters my perception that they will never shut up about it, just like england have never really shut up about 1966.

Plus, Nike knows how to turn on the average Spanish guy. Such a commercial would arouse disgust in many other countries.

Interesting opinion. What countries do you think would be disgusted by such a commercial? I know i myself fell for every nike commercial i saw as a child, and had i been spanish and seen that at the age of 10, i probably would have sworn to wear nothing but nike for ever after.

Though i have always assumed that adverts are aimed at children.

 

[sniper]

Also, I don't understand the heading "To those who doubt".
I mean, how is this commercial gonna take away any doubts? For all I know, Spanish footballplayers were doped to the neck.
Makes sense: for decades they don't win nothing, mostly due to a lack of physicality compared to the Italians, Germans, French, and Brazilians, and suddenly they make up for all that and are now physically stronger than any other country.

 

[sniper]

Interesting opinion. What countries do you think would be disgusted by such a commercial? I know i myself fell for every nike commercial i saw as a child, and had i been spanish and seen that at the age of 10, i probably would have sworn to wear nothing but nike for ever after.

Though i have always assumed that adverts are aimed at children.

Vale, I agree.
It's more that I don't understand the heading "To those who doubt". It's clearly refering to the recent doping scandals.
But, I mean, how is this commercial gonna take away any doubts? For all I know, Spanish footballplayers were doped to the neck.

Rather, stressing the absurd amount of sportive success Spain has had increases suspitions of doping. If you think about it, it really is absurd how Spain has climbed up from being a nobody to being a dominating force in a wide variety of disciplines.
So yeah, there is definitely some envy in the mix, when foreign press criticizes Spain, but it's mostly astonishment, seeing how Spain has climbed up, is being struck by one doping scandal after the other, and nonetheless continues to fly high on this success and take national pride out of it.

 

[The Hitch]

Also, I don't understand the heading "To those who doubt".
I mean, how is this commercial gonna take away any doubts? For all I know, Spanish footballplayers were doped to the neck.
Makes sense: for decades they don't win nothing, mostly due to a lack of physicality compared to the Italians, Germans, French, and Brazilians, and suddenly they make up for all that and are now physically stronger than any other country.

Well its very similar to the Armstrong one.

"people ask what im on, im on my bike". Hes not exactly offering any proof that he won all those tours through hard work rather than pharmacutical help, but nike sees such a advert works. Its main target audience is young people and many of them will enjoy the advert and it will have an influence on them.

Like i said, i know for a fact that if i was Spanish and 10 years old, this iniesta nadal advert would have me convinced 100%, even though it shows no proof, it shows something more important. Iniesta and Nadal, and they are GODS (when you are 10 years old they sure as hell are)

 

[khardung la]

Plus, Nike knows how to turn on the average Spanish guy. Such a commercial would arouse disgust in many other countries.

for example?? Disgust?? I provided an example about the USA and Nike using the anthem and the national logos. In France after the world cup they won they made a party like no other in the Champs Elysees and the TVs/brands were bombing with nationalism and Zidane for months if not years. Same happens in Australia, Brazil, the UK.... It is silly if you want, but not a Spanish singularity at all.

Anyway blame Nike, you don´t even know if those adds are appealing to the audience or in which percentage. I move on from this thread anyway, obviously cycling has very few on it and it is more a showcase of personal national preferences. Also those personal preferences should be backed up by personal experience in the country to understand the context and not being lost in traslation (that´s the reason why i will not tell you how the people are in the UK or China for example). I have the feeling that sometimes people lack of that background and make unfounded and illegitimate generalizations.

EDIT: "To those who doubt" refers to the economic/political crisis NOT doping.It refers to those doubting of the future of Spain under the current disaster. I understand the doping prevalence in this forum, but seriously, people are more worried about other things.

This is what I have heart in the radio from Nadal. This is what you can find in the spanish newspapers when they refer to the add. For example in El Mundo (leader of spanish newspapers, with 28 million unique readers online):

"El mensaje anticrisis de Nadal, Gasol e Iniesta"

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2010/12/23/masdeporte/1293129578.html

And in

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2010/12/25/videos/1293273614.html

"Los tres atletas destacan los éxitos del deporte español en un 2010 que ha sido el mejor año deportivo, aunque la crisis económica y el paro han golpeado duramente a la sociedad.

El manifiesto que recitan los tres deportistas reza: "Trabaja y esfuérzate. Sé algo más que un destello, con humildad y con respeto, pero hasta deslumbrarles, lucha contra la oscuridad. Sé la luz que dicen que hemos perdido. Brilla, ilumina tu país". "

 

[sniper]

for example?? Disgust?? I provided an example about the USA and Nike using the anthem and the national logos. In France after the world cup they won they made a party like no other in the Champs Elysees and the TVs/brands were bombing with nationalism and Zidane for months if not years. Same happens in Australia, Brazil, the UK.... It is silly if you want, but not a Spanish singularity at all.

Anyway blame Nike, you don´t even know if those adds are appealing to the audience or in which percentage. I move on from this thread anyway, obviously cycling has very few on it and it is more a showcase of personal national preferences. Also those personal preferences should be backed up by personal experience in the country to understand the context and not being lost in traslation (that´s the reason why i will not tell you how the people are in the UK or China for example). I have the feeling that sometimes people lack of that background and make unfounded and illegitimate generalizations.

Ok, in fact, I agree and take back my previous comments about disgust.
Anyway:
there is definitely some envy in the mix, when foreign press (or I myself) criticize Spain, but it's also astonishment, seeing how Spain has climbed up sports-wise, is being struck by one doping scandal after the other, and nonetheless continues to fly high on its success and take national pride out of it.

You're right, little cycling in here. Well, the interesting part is still that the commercial skipped Contador. In spite of Nadal's recent public support for Bertie.

 

[sniper]

EDIT: "To those who doubt" refers to the economic/political crisis NOT doping.It refers to those doubting of the future of Spain under the current disaster. I understand the doping prevalence in this forum, but seriously, people are more worried about other things.

This is what I have heart in the radio from Nadal. This is what you can find in the spanish newspapers when they refer to the add. For example in El Mundo (leader of spanish newspapers, with 28 million unique readers online):

"El mensaje anticrisis de Nadal, Gasol e Iniesta"

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2010/12/23/masdeporte/1293129578.html

And in

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2010/12/25/videos/1293273614.html

"Los tres atletas destacan los éxitos del deporte español en un 2010 que ha sido el mejor año deportivo, aunque la crisis económica y el paro han golpeado duramente a la sociedad.

El manifiesto que recitan los tres deportistas reza: "Trabaja y esfuérzate. Sé algo más que un destello, con humildad y con respeto, pero hasta deslumbrarles, lucha contra la oscuridad. Sé la luz que dicen que hemos perdido. Brilla, ilumina tu país". "

hm. Ok. I see, valid points. I was slightly misinterpreting the commercial. thanks for pointing that out.

 

[The Hitch]

Ok, in fact, I agree and take back my previous comments about disgust.
Anyway:
there is definitely some envy in the mix, when foreign press (or I myself) criticize Spain, but it's also astonishment, seeing how Spain has climbed up sports-wise, is being struck by one doping scandal after the other, and nonetheless continues to fly high on its success and take national pride out of it.

You're right, little cycling in here. Well, the interesting part is still that the commercial skipped Contador. In spite of Nadal's recent public support for Bertie.

To be fair they also skipped Casillias, who really is god in spain, though on the other hand they did mantion the world cup, and with Contador, his omission also meant that the Tour was not listed as one of Spains successes for their Annus Mirablis.

Nadal supported Contador? Do tell. That definately would be an interesting article to read.


Oh and if you missed it in the Operation Galgo thread, Fuentes, thats right THE dr Fuentes implicated in Puerto with links to Contador, said "Si hablo, adios al mundial".

So its not just envy, on your part. One of their big doping doctors is standing up and hinting that the nat team was doped. Of course the players and managers have come out to say they dont even know what doping looks like, they never saw it bla bla bla. Which reminds me of the 97 Juve case were all the players swore on their mum no one had doped even though the lab was found with all those drugs.

 

[The Hitch]

EDIT: "To those who doubt" refers to the economic/political crisis NOT doping.It refers to those doubting of the future of Spain under the current disaster. I understand the doping prevalence in this forum, but seriously, people are more worried about other things.

This is what I have heart in the radio from Nadal. This is what you can find in the spanish newspapers when they refer to the add. For example in El Mundo (leader of spanish newspapers, with 28 million unique readers online):

"El mensaje anticrisis de Nadal, Gasol e Iniesta"

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2010/12/23/masdeporte/1293129578.html

And in

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2010/12/25/videos/1293273614.html

"Los tres atletas destacan los éxitos del deporte español en un 2010 que ha sido el mejor año deportivo, aunque la crisis económica y el paro han golpeado duramente a la sociedad.

El manifiesto que recitan los tres deportistas reza: "Trabaja y esfuérzate. Sé algo más que un destello, con humildad y con respeto, pero hasta deslumbrarles, lucha contra la oscuridad. Sé la luz que dicen que hemos perdido. Brilla, ilumina tu país". "

If they are reffering to the economic situation then that makes the non inclusion of Contador, even in name, all the more despicable.

And it makes the advert even more despicable. 3 millioaires telling the people that their own success is what helps the nation. "I win, get money, and your unemployment and struggle to survive, is made sweet, no?".

What does Nada, who was always comfortable, know about adversity . Losing a grand slam final and getting $500 000 for it, doesnt count.

 

[khardung la]

If they are reffering to the economic situation then that makes the non inclusion of Contador, even in name, all the more despicable.

And it makes the advert even more despicable. 3 millioaires telling the people that their own success is what helps the nation. "I win, get money, and your unemployment and struggle to survive, is made sweet, no?".

What does Nada, who was always comfortable, know about adversity . Losing a grand slam final and getting $500 000 for it, doesnt count.

Good, nice to agree in something. Now tell Nike how disgusting their add is. I will gladly sign the complaint with you.

Contador is not a "Nike guy" now as you very well know. The 3 in the add are contracted by Nike. Anyway the PR guys of Nike probably would not even consider mentioning a guy who probably has no future career.

In a side note, those 3 guys were not born rich, so their appeal to success is legitimate. It is not like "my name is Pau Gasol, so pay me 17 million USD a year". He was a kid who worked hard to be a sublime player, not a millionaire by birth.

 

[The Hitch]

Good, nice to agree in something. Now tell Nike how disgusting their add is. I will gladly sign the complaint with you.

Contador is not a "Nike guy" now as you very well know. The 3 in the add are contracted by Nike. Anyway the PR guys of Nike probably would not even consider mentioning a guy who probably has no future career.

In a side note, those 3 guys were not born rich, so their appeal to success is legitimate. It is not like "my name is Pau Gasol, so pay me 17 million USD a year". He was a kid who worked hard to be a sublime player, not a millionaire by birth.

I never said the others were born rich, i said nadal was and he is one of the 3. You could argue he is the main one. According to eurosport tennis (who are totaly in love with nadal so im not sure how accurate this information is) Nadal is the most popular guy in spain, more popular than any of the footballers.

But yes my hate for nike has been here long. To be honest this advert is a minor event that just reminds me of it. Its the sweat shop factories, employing 10 year olds to work for peanuts that makes nike my enemy.

Others tell me you can not expect a high standar from any celebrity, but i always feel sports stars sell out when they accept multi million dollar deals from a company everyone knows is involved in slave labour.

Then again i see any famous person selling their popularity for an advert as selling out. The idea of telling people who respect you to buy something, because the company payed you money, just seems totaly wrong to me. Anathema. I have no idea what this word "contracorriente" which i keep hearing in spanish songs, means, but maybe this is it.

Oh and lets not forget that nike asked the chinese secret police to find a blogger who had suggested that nike had forced Liu Xiang to try the 110m hurdles at the olympics when he was injured.

 

[sniper]

Quote Khardung: Now tell Nike how disgusting their add is. I will gladly sign the complaint with you.

The commercial in itself is not a problem, commercials have a tendency to suck. But as you yourself pointed out, the Spanish media are hailing the commercial, which is a bit unneccessary, if not tasteless.
By the way, Rafa Nadal, nefew of... I think he grew up with all the financial needs to give him the proper elite tennis training he needed, facilities to which very few Spaniard have access.

 

[The Hitch]

Quote Khardung: Now tell Nike how disgusting their add is. I will gladly sign the complaint with you.

The commercial in itself is not a problem, commercials have a tendency to suck. But as you yourself pointed out, the Spanish media are hailing the commercial, which is a bit unneccessary, if not tasteless.
By the way, Rafa Nadal, nefew of... I think he grew up with all the financial needs to give him the proper elite tennis training he needed, facilities to which very few Spaniard have access.

Sporting wise, all of Nadals family was succesful. His mother played sport, his father did.

And Uncle Toni, the one you mention, who still coaches Nadal is the less famous and rich of Nadals uncles. Tonis brother Miguel was the Iniesta of the 90's - Barcelona and Spain key midfielder. His moment on the international stage wasnt quite as succesful as he missed the penalty which knocked Spain out of Euro 96.
So if it matters, you are right, Rafa is upper class.

Makes you wonder, what if Miguel and not Toni had got his hands on little rafa first. probably would have been a top quality footballer, but i think he is better built for tennis. But I got to hand it too him, he does have a lot of great atributes for tennis. Absolutely everything came together, family, money, hunger, exactly the correct physical specimen, height, power links to the right doctors, genes, and Nadal really does have the hunger for victory. kind of like Lance, though he behaves better when he loses.