Stage 16: Ponte Di Legno-Val Martello/Martelltal (139 km)

[Cimber]

Quintana: I just followed Rollands attack
Rolland: I just followed Quintanas attack

 

[rhubroma]

This would indicate to me that Quintana didn't understand the red flag was for neutralization.

Quintana doesn't have to understand, because it was his DS that should have told him of the protocal.

Apart from this, I suspect that he did and was waging his bets on the ambiguity of the situation. Like sitting on Pozzo's wheel to then attack, I don't think were dealing with an innocent lamb here, but an unscrupulous opportunist.

 

[Carols]

Giro officials released a statement late Tuesday: “In consideration of audio recordings of instructions relayed to [team directors] during today’s stage, the directors of the Giro d’Italia would like to clarify that Race Radio provided an inaccurate interpretation of the indications stipulated by the directors. As previously stated, the intention was to guarantee rider safety during the first section of the descent (the first six hairpins, approximately 1500 m) of the Passo dello Stelvio, where visibility was restricted due to low cloud and fog. At no point did Race Radio or the Directors of the Giro make reference to the possible neutralization of any part of the descent.”

Now it all makes sense. What a shame it cast a pall on what should have been an Epic day to remember. Also a Great reason to ban rider radios. Just let them race!!!

 

[icefire]

On the Race Radio they clearly stated that the flag meant more than that.

I watched the full stage last night from RAI. Before the race reached the summit of Stelvio commentators described the decision made by the race direction and they said very clearly that it was not any sort of race neutralization. Maybe RAI commentators do not understand Italian, or maybe race organizer told different things to different people.

 

[Cimber]

Now it all makes sense. What a shame it cast a pall on what should have been an Epic day to remember. Also a Great reason to ban rider radios. Just let them race!!!

Ye but what the giro organisers fail to relate to is the fast that the attacks(s) happened within the "danger zone" before the red flag was down.

And ye they should have called anything. They should just have let them race, Then Uran and the rest would have been staying with (or trying to stay with at least) Ryder, Quintana and Rolland

 

[Cimber]

I watched the full stage last night from RAI. Before the race reached the summit of Stelvio commentators described the decision made by the race direction and they said very clearly that it was not any sort of race neutralization. Maybe RAI commentators do not understand Italian, or maybe race organizer told different things to different people.

No it wasnt a neutralization, but it was clearly stated that while the red falg was up (in the beginning of the descent) attacks were not allowed and you were to stay behind the moto. Further down the red flag would be removed and they could race again. However, the attacks happened before that.

And this come from a replay from the race radio (which is ar more accurate than random tv commentators)

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Ask RCS - they are the ones who screwed it all up in the first place.

Daniel Lloyd ‏@daniellloyd1 1h
Not sure what all the fuss is about. A fine was handed out last night. #sorted

 

[cineteq]

This is such bull****, if Quintana is in the MR group at the start of the climb to Val Martello he either doesn't attack untill the last 10k (or later) and probably gains less or he rides the same mtt up the climb where Hesjedal and Rolland lost 10s and 1m respectively. It's hard to believe all the other GC guy's would lose more than that

True it's impossible to know how big the gap would have been, 1 min., 2 min. if they would have been together at the beginning of the climb. But 2 min. is a good compromise considering all factors including Quintana's attack with no help on final climb and the unorganized maglia-rosa group chase in the flatter sections. RCS screwed up, period. Bottom line, they need to come up with a magic number so most teams are happy before the ITT.

 

[cineteq]

Now it all makes sense. What a shame it cast a pall on what should have been an Epic day to remember. Also a Great reason to ban rider radios. Just let them race!!!

See my sig.

 

[Cimber]

Daniel Lloyd ‏@daniellloyd1 1h
Not sure what all the fuss is about. A fine was handed out last night. #sorted

ahahahhahah

 

[Dazed and Confused]

True it's impossible to know how big the gap would have been, 1 min., 2 min. if they would have been together at the beginning of the climb. But 2 min. is a good compromise considering all factors including Quintana's attack with no help on final climb and the unorganized maglia-rosa group chase in the flatter sections. RCS screwed up, period. Bottom line, they need to come up with a magic number so most teams are happy before the ITT.

Rubbish, you can't come up with an arbitrary number. It would be farcical.

 

[cineteq]

Rubbish, you can't come up with an arbitrary number. It would be farcical.

Rubbish is to think otherwise. If not done Quintana will be hated forever and ever by the peloton, you choose

 

[hrotha]

Rubbish is to think otherwise. If not done Quintana will be hated forever and ever by the peloton, you choose

Like half the peloton already hates Movistar anyway. Looking forward to Valverde paying the bill for this at the Tour.

 

[Carols]

https://twitter.com/l_guercilena/status/471541046359625728

Marco Velo driver of Safety moto"my red flag was up,quintana pass me"! Still some doubts???#DSbadinterpretation pic.twitter.com/nndC4sUATf

"I raised the red flag - says the ex-pro from Brescia - but Quintana signalled several times for me to accelerate and then overtook us and went away"

OMG, this changes it totally for me. Quintanta ignored the red flag....classless.

 

[Netserk]

Like half the peloton already hates Movistar anyway. Looking forward to Valverde paying the bill for this at the Tour.

We all know Valverde will lose his GC one stage, probably the cobbled one.

 

[cineteq]

Like half the peloton already hates Movistar anyway. Looking forward to Valverde paying the bill for this at the Tour.

No one can deny Valverde's influence on Quintana (right Pozzo?). I agree Valverde/Movistar are going to pay for it, dearly in the Tour. Looking forward to seeing that too.

 

[simo1733]

Ben Swift came 25th just behind Ivan Basso!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Agreed. There seem to be three more or less justifiable solutions, none of which is perfect: leave things as they are; neutralize the stage with respect to GC; disqualify those who overtook a red flat.

Leaving things as they are is probably the least unsatisfactory.

I don´t know where they got the 55 seconds from, but to reduce the lead by some amount is the best compromise, since nobody knows what Nairo and others knew or didn´t. Thus a DQ would be overacting.
Neutralize the stage is also no option b/c the hypocrites like Och, Tinkoff, and especially liar Lefevre had circa 40 km to tell their riders to try to close the gap. My guess: They didn´t, a.) because they counted on a protest after the stage and assumed it would be ruled in their favour anyway. What lowlifers... or, b.) They indeed told their riders to try to glose the gap, but riders couldn´t b/c out of power. Now to ask for neutralisation afterwards is cowardly, since they know at least some time gained by Nairo and Co. is legit. Again, what lowlifers. BTW, respect to Uran. He didn´t shift blame...

Solution: If those involved are grown up men, with at least a little integrity left, they would accept the only way possible: Making a compromise. AFAIR, the gap was between 1.37 and 1.45 at parts after the descent. Reduce that amount (1.45) of Rolland, Nairo and Hesj, and go on from there. Everybody would win. The fans having their spectacle with small time gaps, DSes and race organizers to save face, and riders in position to fight the CG out between themselves...

Firing Vegni is a great idea, not because of what happened yesterday, but because it gives a possibiltiy for Zomegnan to become the bos of RCS again

No doubt about that. Bring back this guy. He made the best Giros.

why should he want that.

We want it. That should be enough.

 

[del1962]

Like half the peloton already hates Movistar anyway. Looking forward to Valverde paying the bill for this at the Tour.

Valverde has been caught out twice though, one the changing a wheel in the crosswinds stage and the echelons stage in the 2012 vuelta

 

[Knutsen]

Ben Swift came 25th just behind Ivan Basso!

Still possible to make this into a Sky-thread. Hang in there!

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Rubbish is to think otherwise. If not done Quintana will be hated forever and ever by the peloton, you choose

Couldn't care less whether the peloton hates Movistar or not. Just think if a rider beats Quintana here by 1s (after subtracting 55s) or the other way around. It would be ridiculous.

If people want to penalize these guys, throw them all out of the race.

 

[icefire]

I don´t know where they got the 55 seconds from, but to reduce the lead by some amount is the best compromise, since nobody knows what Nairo and others knew or didn´t. Thus a DQ would be overacting.
Neutralize the stage is also no option b/c the hypocrites like Och, Tinkoff, and especially liar Lefevre had circa 40 km to tell their riders to try to close the gap. My guess: They didn´t, a.) because they counted on a protest after the stage and assumed it would be ruled in their favour anyway. What lowlifers... or, b.) They indeed told their riders to try to glose the gap, but riders couldn´t b/c out of power. Now to ask for neutralisation afterwards is cowardly, since they know at least some time gained by Nairo and Co. is legit. Again, what lowlifers. BTW, respect to Uran. He didn´t shift blame...

Solution: If those involved are grown up men, with at least a little integrity left, they would accept the only way possible. Making a compromise. AFAIR, the gap was between 1.37 and 1.45 at parts after the descent. Reduce that amount (1.45) of Rolland, Nairo and Hesj, and go on from there. Everybody would win. The fans having their spectacle with small time gaps, DSes and race organizers to save face, and riders in position to fight the CG out between themselves...

According to race officials the 'controlled race with no attacks' lasted for 6 turns or about 1500m after the summit. What gap could be made in those 1500m? Any additional time taken after that is the chasers' fault.

 

[cineteq]

If people want to penalize these guys, throw them all out of the race.

Is not about penalizing 'these guys', it's about RCS finding a solution for their mistake/confusion which affected the normal outcome of the race. There must be a way to comprise yesterday's results so most teams are happy. See this post below, it kind of make sense:

I don´t know where they got the 55 seconds from, but to reduce the lead by some amount is the best compromise, since nobody knows what Nairo and others knew or didn´t. Thus a DQ would be overacting.
Neutralize the stage is also no option b/c the hypocrites like Och, Tinkoff, and especially liar Lefevre had circa 40 km to tell their riders to try to close the gap. My guess: They didn´t, a.) because they counted on a protest after the stage and assumed it would be ruled in their favour anyway. What lowlifers... or, b.) They indeed told their riders to try to glose the gap, but riders couldn´t b/c out of power. Now to ask for neutralisation afterwards is cowardly, since they know at least some time gained by Nairo and Co. is legit. Again, what lowlifers. BTW, respect to Uran. He didn´t shift blame...

Solution: If those involved are grown up men, with at least a little integrity left, they would accept the only way possible: Making a compromise. AFAIR, the gap was between 1.37 and 1.45 at parts after the descent. Reduce that amount (1.45) of Rolland, Nairo and Hesj, and go on from there. Everybody would win. The fans having their spectacle with small time gaps, DSes and race organizers to save face, and riders in position to fight the CG out between themselves...

 

[richo36]

I don't understand how when nairo Rolland and ryder went past the red flag that:
1. The guys on the motorbike didn't radio it straight to the race manager, who in turn instantly called europcars or garmin manager to tell them to sit up.
2. How not 1 of the other ds didn't get In contact with the race manger to get confirmation that they are allowed to attack.

as much as we can blame these couple of riders for doing wrong everyone was at fault. if I was uran evans etc I would of been blasting thru the radio asking if i can follow the attack or if it was legal or not. get an answer on the spot. no point waiting till afterwards.

Every ds that is currently whingeing did a poor job as a ds yesterday. they could of solved the issue yesterday in seconds but they all played the hopefully game that nairo would have gone to early and they would catch him, and if they didn't they can play the blame game. riders like uran and evans were happy for a slow safe downhill section as it played into there situation.

in saying all this if the message said stay in the position you are in while the red flag is up. they should receive fines for breeching rules.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Is not about penalizing 'these guys', it's about RCS finding a solution for their mistake/confusion which affected the normal outcome of the race. There must be a way to comprise yesterday's results so most teams are happy. See this post below, it kind of make sense:

But you are penalizing these specific riders. Thats what you are suggesting. Think about it.

If everybody thinks the sporting results have been completely compromised, well then the riders involved should be removed from the GC entirely. Then we have a fair competition between the rest of the competitors.

And remember sports is not about making everybody happy. Its about getting the fairest result.