Stage 16: Ponte Di Legno-Val Martello/Martelltal (139 km)

[Piz Buin]

I don't think it's that ambiguous. They say they place motorbikes in front of groups to avoid attacks and keep everyone safe. It's almost literally: 'no attacks allowed in the descent'. Organisation have a lot of cleaning up to do now.

Yeah, but the thing is: Nobody attacked!

Not quintana, not izaguirre or rolland

They just didn't stop. They started the descent immediately after reaching the summit.

 

[MotorRouleur]

If the cautionary went out 10km to the arrivo, it might be worth taking about. But, it occurred half-way through the tappa, at 70km to go. Lots of time left for anyone to ride.

At the time of the caution, the break of 10 only had 10 seconds, and Cataldo attacked; the race commissaires let it go. What would you do? Sit in and stay warm? There was no flagged motorbike impeded anyone, but some riders decided to take it easy on the descent; that's their choice.

It was an epic stage, and epics are made of triumphs and tragedies. That cannot be corrected by weak whiners. So drop it.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I don't think it's that ambiguous. They say they place motorbikes in front of groups to avoid attacks and keep everyone safe. It's almost literally: 'no attacks allowed in the descent'. Organisation have a lot of cleaning up to do now.

"..to avoid attacks on the descent, in order to ensure that the riders will stay put in their positions to avoid taking excessive risks..


Well, it must be ambiguous, because I don't read that the same as you.

No attacks, sure, but what constitutes an attack?
Stay in your positions means to me, no over taking, so the order they go over the top.
If one group goes over the summit and another stops for clothing etc, that's not an attack.
Nothing about maintaining time gaps, which would be impossible to impose.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Dekker obviously found out that D_T removed him as his avatar and lost the will to fight on.

he will retire as cyclist tomorrow

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Can you imagine this in F1? Some kind of miscommunicated fake safety car call.

Yop, even worse things like DQs after race for one team but the other not when having bend or stepped over the rules. Cancelled points for a year but wins not taken away. Black flags waving and back taking. T-cars allowed in re starts one day, the other not. And whatever $hit that was going on in this "sport".

This Giro "confusion" OTOH was nothing in comparison, since most riders did not hear of any neutralisation.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

so what percent of riders even heard anything about neutralizations? pozzovivo for example didn't

From the contenders? Only Kelderman.

 

[Netserk]

"..to avoid attacks on the descent, in order to ensure that the riders will stay put in their positions to avoid taking excessive risks..


Well, it must be ambiguous, because I don't read that the same as you.

No attacks, sure, but what constitutes an attack?
Stay in your positions means to me, no over taking, so the order they go over the top.
If one group goes over the summit and another stops for clothing etc, that's not an attack.
Nothing about maintaining time gaps, which would be impossible to impose.

I agree. It was really bad communication. Imo you cannot fault any rider for what happened. When the radio didn't explicitly say 'neutralized' then it isn't, but I also understand why some took it as a de facto neutralization.

 

[Piz Buin]

This Giro "confusion" OTOH was nothing in comparison, since most riders did not hear of any neutralisation.

This.

So far kelderman was the only one who thought the neutralisation would take place

 

[Jagartrott]

This Giro "confusion" OTOH was nothing in comparison, since most riders did not hear of any neutralisation.

The fact that some riders did and others (like Kelderman) didn't is exactly what is wrong. It shows that communication was anything but clear and for a stage raced under these conditions and with these stakes, that is just not acceptable. Surely that is obvious?

 

[Petiso]

Well, just to add to the confusion, here's a picture of some riders I can't identify riding IN FRONT of a moto waving a red flag on the descent.

https://twitter.com/ProCyclingStats/status/471369427641188352/photo/1

I have the video, and these are the two AG2R raiders that where persecuting Cataldo.

The motorcycle just put the flag down after the U turn. Then the motorcycle was just signaling the U turns to the riders begin them.

(hi).

 

[kingjr]

Can you imagine this in F1? Some kind of miscommunicated fake safety car call.

Can you imagine F1 during snow and fog on a mountain?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

The fact that some riders did and others (like Kelderman) didn't is exactly what is wrong. It shows that communication was anything but clear and for a stage raced under these conditions and with these stakes, that is just not acceptable. Surely that is obvious?

majka/saxo also complained right.

oh well, it doesn't matter that much, i think quintana would've won time anyway, but he probably wouldn't have gotten pink already

 

[doperhopper]

Well, whatever happened, it's up to organizers to achieve what they want, they can order motos to ride very slowly, they can even stop the race and release the groups according to time gaps measured earlier... anything.

At least the myth of magic powers of the radios for safety got a serious crack, and hopefully we'll get rid of these remote-controlled races at some point.

 

[damian13ster]

This.

So far kelderman was the only one who thought the neutralisation would take place

So did Majka/Saxo and OPQS. Thats 2/3 of the race podium prior to this stage. Quite important in my opinion. Garmin also admitted they thought stage was neutralised but just didnt manage to communicate it to Hesjedal (although they tried). That indicates communication was limited at the summit. Honorable thing to do would be to slow down the rhythm and wait for the peleton. Surely not significant amount of energy were lost if Rolland/Quintana claim they just followed wheels.

Anyway, official protest has been filed by multiple teams but of course nothing is going to change now.

Quintana will always be labeled as a phony GT winner until he wins another one or unless he lights the world up on Zoncolan and takes Giro by 4+ minutes because 2,5 minutes alone were made on descent, plus further confusion in the peleton and effects that it had on mentality of the peleton (feeling cheated, confused, etc. doesnt help in putting max effort)

 

[richo36]

After the last week or so off this race I would love nothing more than for Rolland, ryder to finish in the top 3. Also all the crap ryder gets about being an unworthy giro winner I think today and the last couple days he has proved he deserved his win. His never die attitude is amazing.

a little devastated as a cadel fan that he wont top3 tho

 

[Petiso]

Here is the image one second after (the picture and after the U turn). The motorcicle without the red flag.

Well, just to add to the confusion, here's a picture of some riders I can't identify riding IN FRONT of a moto waving a red flag on the descent.

https://twitter.com/ProCyclingStats/status/471369427641188352/photo/1

 

[doperhopper]

Can you imagine F1 during snow and fog on a mountain?

Absolutely! It may even turn it into something watchable. Sell this idea to Bernie and don't forget about downhills.

 

[christopherrowe]

Here is the image one second after (the picture and after the U turn). The motorcicle without the red flag.

Ah, thanks! That certainly argues in favor of at least some of the moto officials believing they were just meant to be warning of hazardous conditions.

 

[kingjr]

Absolutely! It may even turn it into something watchable. Sell this idea to Bernie and don't forget about downhills.

OK! And they should also increase the number of participants to 180

 

[Carols]

Alessandro Petacchi also a DNF. Now maybe Carlton Kirby will stop naming him as a possible winner in the sprints.

Plus EBH is gone so we won't have to hear how he will win the stage from smarmy Uncle Carlton

 

[Arnout]

What a cluster****, incredible. Just makes me sad and a bit angry really.

 

[LaFlorecita]

This.

So far kelderman was the only one who thought the neutralisation would take place

At least OPQS, Saxo, Trek, Cannondale and Belkin told their riders the descent was neutralized.

 

[Angliru]

I don't think it's that ambiguous. They say they place motorbikes in front of groups to avoid attacks and keep everyone safe. It's almost literally: 'no attacks allowed in the descent'. Organisation have a lot of cleaning up to do now.

If the motobikes were positioned in front of groups to prevent "attacks" and to avoid riders from advancing from the position they were in upon reaching the summit of the penultimate climb, then wouldn't the moto have curtailed any advances the Quintana group would've made on the descent?

 

[goggalor]

Wow Quintana. looks like I missed a hell of a stage.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

OK! And they should also increase the number of participants to 180

No need for that. Just remove the cars and let´s see who truly has talent.

Funny how Quick Step and Saxo complains, but Pozzo and Evans didn´t. Sore losers. And Lefevre I don´t trust at all. Once a liar, always one.

Quintana will silence everybody anyway, winning this GT by 5 mins to leave no doubt.