Stage 16: Ponte Di Legno-Val Martello/Martelltal (139 km)

[therhodeo]

Unzue:



Well this is BS. It was 1.5-2.0 min at the bottom of Stelvio.

It was around 2 minutes but I have no idea what of the timing to believe.

 

[Arnout]

It was around 2 minutes but I have no idea what of the timing to believe.

Timing might've been half a minute off but stopwatch timing generally confirmed the GPS.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

There is a co-relation between Lighthouses being beacons to ships in turbulent weather and riders having motos with red flags leading riders to safe passage down a mountain in snowy conditions.

Lighthouse metaphors and complete insanity?

Sounds like time for this!

 

[damian13ster]

Didnt mean he has to take 4 minutes on Zoncolan. That was reffering to overall GC. And there is no way time gap would be bigger. You are not taking psychological effect that all of this has on riders in MR group. Its obvious that they would be riding faster. Come on, Hesjedal lost just 8 seconds in the end and Quintana did try and drop him multiple times. You are surely not claiming that top GC riders would lose 2 minutes to Hesjedal on the final climb?

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think you are over reacting a little!

Quintana would have taken more time. Subtract 2 minutes but add some more time just because he did pull all the time. He would have been close to the lead if not the lead. He does not have to take 4 minutes on the Zoncolan. That is not correct!!

It's easier to take time when your rivals can't hang on.

 

[Escarabajo]

It was around 2 minutes but I have no idea what of the timing to believe.

It was less than 2 minutes for sure. At least that was what I saw on the TV.

 

[Rollthedice]

This. You go with him, you yell at him about how it's supposed to be neutralised until he sits up, or you sit on him while you get further info from race directors or team car on how to proceed. But you don't just let Nairo freaking Quintana ride away from you thinking he's going to stop at the bottom for ice cream like some reverse psychology Bahamontes.

True that, but when out of the top 10 Giro GC riders only 2 go and the other 8 don't, then I think there is something wrong. For me it is clear that Quintana, Rolland and Hesjedal benefited from a confusing situation.

 

[ILovecycling]

Wow this was EP!C.Magnificent.Divine .I just finished with watching the stage cuz I had to leave about 55k before finish.I have never expected anything like this.
Two words describes this stage:


Don Nairo.



Oh godness me, he gave 2 minutes to first guy from maglia rosa group on final ascent solo (Kelderman - I will honor him in my next post) and 2.30 to Rigo,who btw obviously doesnt have that good climbing form like last year - but not a lot worse imo.

edit:I have to check at least last 20 pages and interview from riders as I dont understand lot of things in this stage.

 

[Walkman]

It's easier to take time when your rivals can't hang on.

Indeed. This really sucks. Would have be a hell of a last week otherwise.

 

[Escarabajo]

It's easier to take time when your rivals can't hang on.

IMHO after seeing how tired they were in that group, Quintana would have made a couple of attacks and would have dispatched most of them. But no telling if Wilco or Aru would have hang on to him.

 

[Escarabajo]

Didnt mean he has to take 4 minutes on Zoncolan. That was reffering to overall GC. And there is no way time gap would be bigger. You are not taking psychological effect that all of this has on riders in MR group. Its obvious that they would be riding faster. Come on, Hesjedal lost just 8 seconds in the end and Quintana did try and drop him multiple times. You are surely not claiming that top GC riders would lose 2 minutes to Hesjedal on the final climb?

Ryder is looking stronger and stronger in this Giro. So I cannot know if the other ones were as strong as him. Look how Roland dropped first.

 

[MotorRouleur]

..... "I just cant stand any people who ... win on an uneven ground like that and pretend that nothing has happened ....."

Look, Ryder comes from a hockey nation; you play hard until whistle blows, or siren howls; only then you get up off the pile of bodies on ice and find out if it's a goal, penalty or another face-off. You don't second-guess the call of the referee. It reminds of Euro football (soccer), when the girlie defenders stop playing and throw their hands up thinking an attacker is off-side. You always play-through. Always.

If anybody wants 'even ground', go to table-tennis or snooker. This, is the Giro. This is Sparta, only harder.

 

[damian13ster]

There will always be controversy when you have multiple groups being held steady though. You ever watch Le Mans? Due to the size of the course they have three separate safety cars, and each time the safety car comes out, the pits are buzzing with activity as obviously when the other cars are going slower, you can make a pit stop and lose less, relatively speaking, than if everybody is going at full race pace. But if you just beat one of the safety cars out, you can race round to join the next one, whereas somebody who left the pits just a couple of seconds after you could then stand to lose a minute and a half of track time; getting just in front of a safety car, racing round to the pits and getting back out on track before it could put you two safety cars ahead of somebody who got stopped behind the other one, then because they were going slower didn't get the time to get in and out of the pits before the next one, and suddenly two seconds on track becomes nearly 3 minutes.

It happens every time, and there's always arguments about whether it is fair and what effect it has on the racing, but on a course as big as La Sarthe it's impossible to police the whole track with just one safety car, so they stay that way. Similarly, the race today would have been nigh on impossible to police in an ideal fashion group by group. If a rider stops for a change and is caught by the next group on the road, are they allowed to then attack out of that group to catch the group they were originally in? How do you ensure that the right rider is the one you let go? How many riders constitutes a group, and is simply continuing really attacking out of a group? When a handful continue and a handful stop, do they remain the same group or do they become two separate groups, since it was a voluntary action to stop, the same as those sportscar teams pitting under the safety car and getting stuck behind the next one didn't have to pit, they could have kept going.

If they were going to police it and neutralise it, they should have righted the situation in the valley. They didn't, ergo what is Quintana to do? Voluntarily hand over the lead?

First bolded part: this is a GT. You do not have 50 riders contending for a win. Just make sure that team leaders and riders placed high in GC stay put, and that wasnt hard to do since when the message quoted in my post was released all of those riders were in the same group. So yes, if 6 contenders stop at the top to put on some clothes then the remaining ones should as well, especially since it would probably be beneficial to a guy that has a flu, wouldnt it?

Second bolded part. It was a mistake by race organizers, there is no question about it, but since they have done nothing then yes, in my opinion thats what Rolland, Hesjedal and Quintana should do. Not even in the valley, I am sure they knew something is not right when seeing other riders stop racing. And wouldnt in be amazing way to win by playing fair play like that since Nairo is most likely one of the strongest anyway? Wouldnt that make his win memorable for all good reasons if he stopped and then beat his rivals man to man?

 

[Walkman]

Ryder is looking stronger and stronger in this Giro. So I cannot know if the other ones were as strong as him. Look how Roland dropped first.

Indeed. I think none excepted that. Here people were talking about how Ryder was about to crack and Rolland to nip the stage! Crazy really! If not for his history I would feel rally bad for him, well I kind of am anyway.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Indeed. This really sucks. Would have be a hell of a last week otherwise.

Yep. I think Quintana would have taken 1 min otherwise (he would not have gone all out until, like, 6-7k to go in the best scenario). Uran would still be in pink. Would be exciting with the MTT coming up.

 

[yespatterns]

Honestly, Im even more excited about seeing the new blood fight for second and third ---- Aru, Majka, Kelderman, and the Dr. are all having an amazing race. It's like watching a changing of the guard.

 

[Walkman]

Yep. I think Quintana would have taken 1 min otherwise (he would not have gone all out until, like, 6-7k to go in the best scenario). Uran would still be in pink. Would be exciting with the MTT coming up.

Yeah, this seems kind of likely. Kelderman would probably be higher up in the standings too, seeing how strong he was.

 

[Angliru]

I am pretty sure they meant stay in the same group and not stay in same position relative to individual rider in the peleton......

That certainly wasn't your interpretation. You indicated that riders passing riders originally ahead of them that had stopped for clothes was them (the passing riders) not obeying the rules. That was what I was responding to.

 

[jsem94]

I have got to chime in and say this:

Quintana is a beast. Not for getting that gap in the first place, but the way he rode up Val Martello. He put minutes into his other GC rivals, simply outstanding.

This stage will go down as one of the greatest GT stages of the last few years.

 

[Rollthedice]

Honestly, Im even more excited about seeing the new blood fight for second and third ---- Aru, Majka, Kelderman, and the Dr. are all having an amazing race. It's like watching a changing of the guard.

Anyway, from the beginning Quintana was the huge favorite. His problems in the first weeks just made the race more interesting but Nairo is in another league as far as climbing is concerned and this Giro is all about climbing. So yes, the fight for the podium is the interesting part.

 

[damian13ster]

That certainly wasn't your interpretation. You indicated that riders passing riders originally ahead of them that had stopped for clothes was them (the passing riders) not obeying the rules. That was what I was responding to.

Because I believe that is the case. They left their group, and the message clearly stated not to do that. Just to remind you I will repeat the quote:

'to avoid that there are attack on the descent, to ensure that the riders hold their position and avoid taking huge risks. They should hold that position until the official lower the red flags."

They clearly didnt hold to their position which was in the MR group with all other contenders

 

[LaFlorecita]

Anyway, from the beginning Quintana was the huge favorite. His problems in the first weeks just made the race more interesting but Nairo is in another league as far as climbing is concerned and this Giro is all about climbing. So yes, the fight for the podium is the interesting part.

I and I guess many others don't give a damn about the podium

The overall win is what is important, once that's decided the race is pretty much over.

IMO at least.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It just sucks that we have to have this discussion now. Whatever happens it will take some shine of the victory and I don't think any rider is to blame for that

it won't take any shine os his victory when he wins at least 2 more stages and the gc by more than 5-6 minutes. no one will ever talk about that descend again as quintana winning because of that

 

[DirtyWorks]

If they were going to police it and neutralise it, they should have righted the situation in the valley. They didn't, ergo what is Quintana to do? Voluntarily hand over the lead?

Agree. They didn't sort it out, like so many other chaotic, inconsistent, situations in grand tours. It is simply a part of the race.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Look, Ryder comes from a hockey nation; you play hard until whistle blows, or siren howls; only then you get up off the pile of bodies on ice and find out if it's a goal, penalty or another face-off. You don't second-guess the call of the referee. It reminds of Euro football (soccer), when the girlie defenders stop playing and throw their hands up thinking an attacker is off-side. You always play-through. Always.

If anybody wants 'even ground', go to table-tennis or snooker. This, is the Giro. This is Sparta, only harder.

Perfect analogy. Especially the bolded...