Stage 16: Ponte Di Legno-Val Martello/Martelltal (139 km)

[Pentacycle]

it won't take any shine os his victory when he wins at least 2 more stages and the gc by more than 5-6 minutes. no one will ever talk about that descend again as quintana winning because of that

Exactly, and tbh the thing I remember most of this stage is how Quintana just kept gaining time on Uran. It was a ride of a champion.

 

[DirtyWorks]

it won't take any shine os his victory when he wins at least 2 more stages and the gc by more than 5-6 minutes. no one will ever talk about that descend again as quintana winning because of that

There are some tough stages left too, so whatever the podium order, the gaps could be big.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

"In the final, I started cramping," Evans said. "I was limping on one leg all the way home. It is a pity because normally I am reasonably good in these extreme conditions."

the usual cadel excuses again

 

[yespatterns]

Agree. They didn't sort it out, like so many other chaotic, inconsistent, situations in grand tours. It is simply a part of the race.

I must admit my favorite PR was the one a few years back with the train. Cycling is great with the chaos and downright oddness that sometimes occurs. Part of the game... bad weather, bad communication, over-indulgent tifosi, etc. ... i dont want my cycling any other way.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

First bolded part: this is a GT. You do not have 50 riders contending for a win. Just make sure that team leaders and riders placed high in GC stay put, and that wasnt hard to do since when the message quoted in my post was released all of those riders were in the same group. So yes, if 6 contenders stop at the top to put on some clothes then the remaining ones should as well, especially since it would probably be beneficial to a guy that has a flu, wouldnt it?

If you're under safety car conditions in a motor race, and the guys in front of you go to the pits, do you have to pit as well so that you won't be ahead of them when the safety car pulls in? The other thing is, how do you police "team leaders". Who is a team leader at this race? How far down the GC do you go before you let people go and don't care? You're saying that because some guys decided to put more clothes on, Nairito MUST do so? Even though nobody told him the race was neutralized, and apart from Kelderman no GC rider has said they thought that to be the case?

Second bolded part. It was a mistake by race organizers, there is no question about it, but since they have done nothing then yes, in my opinion thats what Rolland, Hesjedal and Quintana should do. Not even in the valley, I am sure they knew something is not right when seeing other riders stop racing. And wouldnt in be amazing way to win by playing fair play like that since Nairo is most likely one of the strongest anyway? Wouldnt that make his win memorable for all good reasons if he stopped and then beat his rivals man to man?

So let me get this straight. The race organizers fouled up. They didn't right their mistake, so Nairito and co. are going to bail the race organizers out? Sure it would be a great sporting gesture, right up there with Jalabert and Bert Dietz. But there's a reason people still remember Jalabert and Dietz nearly 20 years after the fact: because that's the exception, not the rule. It would have been a great gesture if they had sat up and let the maglia rosa catch back up, but they had done nothing wrong in going, therefore they did nothing wrong in staying out front and had no obligation to sit up, so I don't see any reason to hold it against them that they didn't.

 

[jsem94]

"In the final, I started cramping," Evans said. "I was limping on one leg all the way home. It is a pity because normally I am reasonably good in these extreme conditions."

the usual cadel excuses again

It's not an excuse, it's a reason. He's not blaming outside factors.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It's not an excuse, it's a reason. He's not blaming outside factors.

yes he is. unless you are completley blind and can't read.

 

[thequestionmark]

So Pierre Rolland Saxe he just followed Quintana and izaguierrr, whereas Quintana says he just followed Rolland. Seems hypocritical to me.

Besides, have you seen this photo? Rolland/Quintana descending behind a motorcycle with a red flag. https://twitter.com/Gus5ilva/status/471349094435545088

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I think Quintana would have taken 1 min otherwise (he would not have gone all out until, like, 6-7k to go in the best scenario). Uran would still be in pink. Would be exciting with the MTT coming up.

The MTT doesn't favor Uran apart from the first 9 or so kms, so no, him "only" losing a minute today wouldn't make the race exciting. Maybe slightly less predictable, but even that is stretching it.

 

[yespatterns]

So Pierre Rolland Saxe he just followed Quintana and izaguierrr, whereas Quintana says he just followed Rolland. Seems hypocritical to me.

Besides, have you seen this photo? Rolland/Quintana descending behind a motorcycle with a red flag. https://twitter.com/Gus5ilva/status/471349094435545088

Pretty sure behind the red flag is where they are supposed to be....

eta: you do realize the bike with the red flag is not a stop sign, correct?

 

[Angliru]

"In the final, I started cramping," Evans said. "I was limping on one leg all the way home. It is a pity because normally I am reasonably good in these extreme conditions."

the usual cadel excuses again

Nah. Cadel has shown he's a pretty tough character. His stating he was cramping is no different than Quintana mentioning his allergies were bothering him. It's not an excuse it's just them sharing what they are experiencing during the course of a grueling event.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I and I guess many others don't give a damn about the podium

The overall win is what is important, once that's decided the race is pretty much over.

IMO at least.

Than you shall never ever watch a GT. In 90% of time the GT is decided in the 2nd week, and the final champ has won by at least 2 mins...

 

[Walkman]

"In the final, I started cramping," Evans said. "I was limping on one leg all the way home. It is a pity because normally I am reasonably good in these extreme conditions."

the usual cadel excuses again

Spare us your bull**** for once, will you?

He may or may not have had cramps but he has been good in tough conditions in previous GT:s such as the -10 Giro and the -11 Tour.

 

[kingjr]

https://twitter.com/Gus5ilva/status/471349094435545088[/url]

Yes we've been over this. It was assumed this red flag was to signal dangerous corners, not to neutralise the race. If it was for neutralizing it did a bloody terrible job.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Than you shall never ever watch a GT. In 90% of time the GT is decided in the 2nd week, and the final champ has won by at least 2 mins...

Yes.

And that does make the GT much less interesting to me

 

[damian13ster]

If you're under safety car conditions in a motor race, and the guys in front of you go to the pits, do you have to pit as well so that you won't be ahead of them when the safety car pulls in? The other thing is, how do you police "team leaders". Who is a team leader at this race? How far down the GC do you go before you let people go and don't care? You're saying that because some guys decided to put more clothes on, Nairito MUST do so? Even though nobody told him the race was neutralized, and apart from Kelderman no GC rider has said they thought that to be the case?


So let me get this straight. The race organizers fouled up. They didn't right their mistake, so Nairito and co. are going to bail the race organizers out? Sure it would be a great sporting gesture, right up there with Jalabert and Bert Dietz. But there's a reason people still remember Jalabert and Dietz nearly 20 years after the fact: because that's the exception, not the rule. It would have been a great gesture if they had sat up and let the maglia rosa catch back up, but they had done nothing wrong in going, therefore they did nothing wrong in staying out front and had no obligation to sit up, so I don't see any reason to hold it against them that they didn't.

You are talking about completely different sport and if I am not mistaken this is cycling forum. And it is really not that hard to figure out who still had realistic chances to win the race before this stage. Dont make it sound so complicated. No. They had no obligation to do so once the organizers screwed up.

And we disagree about doing nothing wrong with going. According to the recording from race radio it was in fact wrong, and even more unethical. Since you love using different sports as analogies look at deliberate handball by Henry that put France instead of Ireland in World Cup tournament. He had no obligation to admit but he is still remembered by some as a scumbag. And yes, unfortunately it is an exception but it shouldnt be in a sport since its supposed to be pure and fair. Just because not many people do it at highest level doesnt mean I cant criticize riders who act like dirtbags when given a chance to show that they know what 'fair play' means.

 

[Hakkapelit]

"In the final, I started cramping," Evans said. "I was limping on one leg all the way home. It is a pity because normally I am reasonably good in these extreme conditions."

the usual cadel excuses again

The excuse for thy dungthrowing, yes.

 

[goggalor]

"In the final, I started cramping," Evans said. "I was limping on one leg all the way home. It is a pity because normally I am reasonably good in these extreme conditions."

the usual cadel excuses again

Not much different from how Quintana blamed his mediocre first week on injuries and illness. Evans sounded surprisingly optimistic actually, kind of gives me the impression he never really expected to win and is more than content being in third at this late stage (and probably to have had a nice run in the maglia rosa earlier in the race).

 

[Rollthedice]

The MTT doesn't favor Uran apart from the first 9 or so kms, so no, him "only" losing a minute today wouldn't make the race exciting. Maybe slightly less predictable, but even that is stretching it.

It's obvious Uran did improve his TT but I feel his climbing is even less good than last year. So it was just a matter of time until he passed the maglia rosa. I'd say there are chances he'll be knocked off the podium.

 

[jsem94]

I have got to say though: I'm kind of glad that Cadel didn't end up winning because some BS like the Montecassino massacre.

He won't even podium at this point. The fact that bookmakers were putting him at even 4/1 or whatever they were doing is beyond me.

 

[Walkman]

It's obvious Uran did improve his TT but I feel his climbing is even less good than last year. So it was just a matter of time until he passed the maglia rosa. I'd say there are chances he'll be knocked off the podium.

Good sign. People who vastly improve their TT form one year to another and still maintain their climbing is suspicious.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Here's a hypothetical on the whole "stay in your group" idea. Surely by voluntarily stopping, you cede your position in a group, and if the next bike passes you, you become part of that group? Urán et al were not forced to stop by conditions on the road (i.e. a crash, blocked road, crossing etc.) but chose to stop. If Quintana/Izagirre/Rolland/Hesjedal had to stop there because Urán et al stopped, what happens if the next group on the road then arrives? Do they have to stop at the summit and wait for the previous group to set off again so they don't overtake them? Do they join that group? Do they overtake the group and Quintana have to stand there like a lemon at the summit?

It's nigh on impossible to police so many riders and to say "you must stop because he stopped" should only apply if it is for unavoidable reasons. Quintana and Rolland were still behind a motorbike, so they were still heeding the descending warnings.

Poorly managed, hell yes. But it's not Quintana's fault and by expecting him to stop and stand around because Urán did, or to cede the advantage he had because it was gained unfairly despite it being the other guys' choice to cede the time, you're getting into the Andy Schleck realm of "descents should not be raced". In that case the race leader can effectively kill the race until the final climb and ride down like Ivan Basso's grandmother stopping every five minutes for a break, because everybody else has to wait with him. Obviously that's an unrealistic, extreme example, but still, we need to consider that there was no obligation to stop. Even if the race was neutralised, they could have safely guided Quintana's group down (after all, descending is safer in smaller groups as you can pick lines better) and then had them sit up at the bottom. They didn't, therefore Nairo's in his rights to capitalise.

 

[Narce_]

This is one of the greatest stages I've seen in GTs, hell, I'll be speaking of it decades later. This non-neutralization only added to the show, methinks, but to be honest, I think all this fuss is for the sake of arguing. I mean, if I'm a general contender and I see a rival attacking AND I've heard about the neutralization, I send a dom after him/shout at him/etc. (And we cannot talk about language issues between Nairo and Uran... ) Quintana, Rolland and Hesjedal were simply the bravest and most restless and most reckless of all. And in the end, they proved to be the strongest, too.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You are talking about completely different sport and if I am not mistaken this is cycling forum. And it is really not that hard to figure out who still had realistic chances to win the race before this stage. Dont make it sound so complicated. No. They had no obligation to do so once the organizers screwed up.

And we disagree about doing nothing wrong with going. According to the recording from race radio it was in fact wrong, and even more unethical. Since you love using different sports as analogies look at deliberate handball by Henry that put France instead of Ireland in World Cup tournament. He had no obligation to admit but he is still remembered by some as a scumbag. And yes, unfortunately it is an exception but it shouldnt be in a sport since its supposed to be pure and fair. Just because not many people do it at highest level doesnt mean I cant criticize riders who act like dirtbags when given a chance to show that they know what 'fair play' means.

But a deliberate handball is a very conscious, deliberate foul. It is against the rules. Nairo was not told the race was neutralized, and acted fully within the rules. Why is it equivalent? It isn't. If Nairo hasn't been informed the race is neutralized, why the hell would he cede the advantage? The other riders stopped. That was their choice. If Nairo had done something wrong, the race directors should have communicated that to him. But they didn't, therefore why should he assume he was in the wrong? He had Ryder and Rolland with him, so it's not like he was alone like when Rolland attacked when they had tacks on the road in the 2012 Tour.

We're not talking about Diego Maradona here, we're not even talking about diving to win a penalty. We're talking about a guy who was a few yeards offside, put the ball in the net and the ref gave it cos he made a mistake. He then went on to score two more, and kept the match ball for the hat trick.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Yes.

And that does make the GT much less interesting to me

So why you are watching? 9 of 10 times you get boredom from week 2 on, while even a regular clinican like me enjoys almost all GTs (except the ones won by grandpas).