Stage 16: Ponte Di Legno-Val Martello/Martelltal (139 km)

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Absolutely epic face by Fabio Aru

 

[damian13ster]

We are talking about descending in pretty extreme conditions here. And Uran didnt just choose to stop. They were informed through the radios and all of them thought that they will be led down by official motorbike. Did you read any of the post-stage articles?

Of course, you can capitalize on the mess created by the organizers but that doesnt make it ethical, fair or noble. Just dissapointed that another rider who has great talent already shows that he has no morale whatsoever. I looked favorable at him and was hoping he would destroy Froome in future Tours. Hopefully he matures a bit with age....

And to Narce_..... reckless and restless I agree. Nothing indicated to me that they were strongest though. Prior to that Quintana hasnt won single stage, Hesjedal didnt show anything spectacular, and Rolland was impressive with numbers of attacks but he was still minutes back in GC.

 

[christopherrowe]

I'm not sure how helpful or enlightening this is, but here's a statement from the Race Directors:

STATEMENT BY THE RACE DIRECTORS

In consideration of audio recordings of instructions relayed to Directeurs sportifs during today's stage, the Directors of the Giro d'Italia would like to clarify that Race Radio provided an inaccurate interpretation of the indications stipulated by the Directors.

As previously stated, the intention was to guarantee rider safety during the first section of the descent (the first 6 hairpins, approximately 1500 m) of the Passo dello Stelvio, where visibility was restricted due to low cloud and fog.

At no point did Race Radio or the Directors of the Giro make reference to the possible neutralisation of any part of the descent.

 

[damian13ster]

But a deliberate handball is a very conscious, deliberate foul. It is against the rules. Nairo was not told the race was neutralized, and acted fully within the rules. Why is it equivalent? It isn't. If Nairo hasn't been informed the race is neutralized, why the hell would he cede the advantage? The other riders stopped. That was their choice. If Nairo had done something wrong, the race directors should have communicated that to him. But they didn't, therefore why should he assume he was in the wrong? He had Ryder and Rolland with him, so it's not like he was alone like when Rolland attacked when they had tacks on the road in the 2012 Tour.

We're not talking about Diego Maradona here, we're not even talking about diving to win a penalty. We're talking about a guy who was a few yeards offside, put the ball in the net and the ref gave it cos he made a mistake. He then went on to score two more, and kept the match ball for the hat trick.

Well, technically referees also should inform Henry or Maradona that they did something wrong, shouldnt they? Just because 3 people do the same thing doesnt justify it. And I am sure Movistar and Quintana himself knew what is happening. As it happens finish line wasnt at the bottom of a descent so they had plenty of time to do something. They chose not to and to make excuses even though the recording from race radio clearly states that there was supposed to be no attacks and riders had to stay in the groups they were in. So yes, I am sure they are fully aware that what they did wasnt right. They just dont give a ****

 

[rhubroma]

If you're under safety car conditions in a motor race, and the guys in front of you go to the pits, do you have to pit as well so that you won't be ahead of them when the safety car pulls in? The other thing is, how do you police "team leaders". Who is a team leader at this race? How far down the GC do you go before you let people go and don't care? You're saying that because some guys decided to put more clothes on, Nairito MUST do so? Even though nobody told him the race was neutralized, and apart from Kelderman no GC rider has said they thought that to be the case?


So let me get this straight. The race organizers fouled up. They didn't right their mistake, so Nairito and co. are going to bail the race organizers out? Sure it would be a great sporting gesture, right up there with Jalabert and Bert Dietz. But there's a reason people still remember Jalabert and Dietz nearly 20 years after the fact: because that's the exception, not the rule. It would have been a great gesture if they had sat up and let the maglia rosa catch back up, but they had done nothing wrong in going, therefore they did nothing wrong in staying out front and had no obligation to sit up, so I don't see any reason to hold it against them that they didn't.

The problem, of course, Liberty, is that if some riders stopped in "the pit" their team was under the impression that the race was neutralized, while others simply road away. What a farce, no?

I think that certain riders and teams profited from this ambiguity, which, it must be said, was unpardonable (the ambiguity that is).

In the heat of the moment unless some official tells you that what you are doing is wrong, you persist. On the other hand, the officials didn’t tell those that stopped to put more gear on: “look, your rivals are riding away!”
Che casino!

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

It's obvious Uran did improve his TT but I feel his climbing is even less good than last year.

Agreed. That's what you get when you sign for OPQS.

So it was just a matter of time until he passed the maglia rosa. I'd say there are chances he'll be knocked off the podium.

For sure. More chances than not.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Uran could easily drop to 9th place

 

[kareeem]

And I am sure Movistar and Quintana himself knew what is happening. As it happens finish line wasnt at the bottom of a descent so they had plenty of time to do something. They chose not to and to make excuses even though the recording from race radio clearly states that there was supposed to be no attacks and riders had to stay in the groups they were in. So yes, I am sure they are fully aware that what they did wasnt right. They just dont give a ****

really? so how come someone like Pozzovivo wasn't aware of it?

 

[janraaskalt]

I'm not sure how helpful or enlightening this is, but here's a statement from the Race Directors:

It isn't enlightening at all.
Since when is Race Radio not official? Why was there a difference between what Race Directors decided and what Race Radio broadcasted? What will be the result of this statement, since the Organisation (Race Direction and/or Race Radio) apparently made a mistake in communications?

 

[christopherrowe]

And Daniel Lloyd offers this:

Race radio which I listened to today was lady translating into Eng/Frnch. 99% certain neutralisation was said, is there a recording of this?

 

[Netserk]

Uran could easily drop to 9th place

Below Evans?

 

[staubsauger]

In fact Urans climbing skills never have been much better except last year.

 

[roundabout]

Unzue

Quintana only did what other riders did. The Europcar riders took the descent pretty fast but the race wasn't neutralized.

It wasn't us.

Rolland

"Étant dans les premières positions dans la descente du stevio pour ne prendre aucun risque, quand j'ai vu débarquer Quintana avec un équipier "pleine balle", j'ai tout de suite décidé de les suivre. Avec cette descente humide et très technique, l'écart était fait. "

It wasn't me.

lol

 

[Orbit501]

We are talking about descending in pretty extreme conditions here. And Uran didnt just choose to stop. They were informed through the radios and all of them thought that they will be led down by official motorbike. Did you read any of the post-stage articles?

Of course, you can capitalize on the mess created by the organizers but that doesnt make it ethical, fair or noble. Just dissapointed that another rider who has great talent already shows that he has no morale whatsoever. I looked favorable at him and was hoping he would destroy Froome in future Tours. Hopefully he matures a bit with age....

And to Narce_..... reckless and restless I agree. Nothing indicated to me that they were strongest though. Prior to that Quintana hasnt won single stage, Hesjedal didnt show anything spectacular, and Rolland was impressive with numbers of attacks but he was still minutes back in GC.

Hang on a minute! So the well over two minutes those 3 riders put into most of the other GC contenders on the final climb today doesn't indicate they were the strongest

Say what you like about the descent - the bulk of the time taken today was on the final ascent, FACT.

 

[Netserk]

The only picture we have of them (near the top) is with a Europcar rider first.

 

[Volderke]

I think it was all pretty clear no?

Quintana took 2 minutes in the decent. NOT by attacking, ONLY by going down NORMALLY.
Uran & Co CHOOSE to go down like a snail. The motorbike in front of them did NOT block them to go faster. THEIR choice. Heck, I could have followed any of those guys going down (not up though!)

(I know I am using a lot of capital letters )

So the organization said they had to keep position. Well, they did! The organization never said something about your own decision of letting riders in front of you go out of sight! In reference to formula 1: If you have a safety car in front of you, and you follow it... Is it your fault that the car behind you is not following you anymore? Uran should ALWAYS have followed Quintana. What did they expect? To drink a coffee halfway for 5 minutes and think that the organization would simply stop Quintana in the valley for the same amount of time until the 'favorites' finished their coffee?

I realize it was confusing and in the heat of the battle... but still, some teams took SOOO much for granted. They lost the focus on the race completely it seemed. And I feel they were poked already by all the twitter thoughts of e.g. Patrick Lefevere. They were in a mental state of mind, thinking that the stage would be canceled somewhere in the middle? All questions... And probably the reason the protest is not too loud (because the teams have to take part of the blame it seems).

In the end, I sincerely hope Quintana takes at least 30s-1 minute more time to remove any doubt. Because what he did today on Val Martello was enormous.

 

[kareeem]

Quintana

“The peloton was compact until the top of the Stelvio. Then the attacks started: there was a rider with Team Colombia, two riders from of AG2R, one from Sky. They started to descend fast. I just stayed on a team-mate’s wheel. Europcar and Hesjedal started going strong and Izagirre and myself followed their wheels.

"When we got to the bottom of the descent, we saw the group was split. It wasn't an attack, by any means. We came down at some speed, and at the foot of the descent I realised that there were 6 of us in a group behind the breakaway.

 

[rhubroma]

The moral is that some riders tool advantage of the ambiguity, which was the fault of the organization!

 

[alspacka]

Ben Swift listed as finishing 25th today... that can't be right.

 

[BigMac]

Quintana

“The peloton was compact until the top of the Stelvio. Then the attacks started: there was a rider with Team Colombia, two riders from of AG2R, one from Sky. They started to descend fast. I just stayed on a team-mate’s wheel. Europcar and Hesjedal started going strong and Izagirre and myself followed their wheels.

"When we got to the bottom of the descent, we saw the group was split. It wasn't an attack, by any means. We came down at some speed, and at the foot of the descent I realised that there were 6 of us in a group behind the breakaway.

Only at the foot of the climb did he realise there were only 6 of them?

Gold.

Ben Swift listed as finishing 25th today... that can't be right.

It is... The forum almost melt down I tell you!

 

[The Blues]

Very interesting and dramatic stage, but unfortunately it probably also means that there will no longer be any doubt about the overall winner of the race. Still very interesting from 2nd to 9th place, where a lot of things can still happen. I am quite sure Evans will lose some spots, but I am not entirely sure the same thing won't happen to Uran. These two seem to be the weakest climbers of the big GC-guys at the moment.

 

[neineinei]

And Daniel Lloyd offers this:

Race radio which I listened to today was lady translating into Eng/Frnch. 99% certain neutralisation was said, is there a recording of this?

That'll teach them to learn Italian. And Garmin and Europcar didn't listen to it anyway.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well, technically referees also should inform Henry or Maradona that they did something wrong, shouldnt they? Just because 3 people do the same thing doesnt justify it. And I am sure Movistar and Quintana himself knew what is happening. As it happens finish line wasnt at the bottom of a descent so they had plenty of time to do something. They chose not to and to make excuses even though the recording from race radio clearly states that there was supposed to be no attacks and riders had to stay in the groups they were in. So yes, I am sure they are fully aware that what they did wasnt right. They just dont give a ****

It wasn't necessarily right... it just wasn't WRONG.

Look, you play to the whistle. This is the same for any sport. As long as the race hasn't been officially neutralized, assume you are racing. Sort out the ramifications later, once there has been some cessation of proceedings. The example earlier was a defender stopping with his hand in the air calling the offside as the attacker shoots and scores. In that situation it doesn't matter whether the attacker was actually offside or not, the defender is still the fool for not playing to the whistle.

To go back to the football analogy, the referee misses the offside (Nairo), the referee misses the handball (Maradona). But one of them is blatant cheating (deliberate handball), the other is being caught on the wrong side of the rules (being in an offside position). In both situations the referee is the culprit, but while forwards who handle the ball into the goal are vilified, in 99% of situations a forward who scores from an offside position is not vilified, because the intent was not to cheat, they just took advantage of a situation of the officials' making.

I'm not pleased with the situation, but I don't think Nairo is a villain here (although claiming not to have known the group was so small until the base of the descent is stupid stupid stupid, up there with Alberto's claiming he didn't know Schleck had slipped his chain. Alberto didn't need to lie to justify his entirely reasonable actions four years ago, and Nairo doesn't need to lie to justify his actions today, because the situation was not of his own making, and doing so only makes him look more disingenuous than people already think he is).

If the race was neutralized, the onus is on the race directors to communicate that to the riders. People like Pozzovivo, who lost out, say they heard nothing to that effect, so how can you blame Nairito for thinking it wasn't? If it WAS neutralized, then the race organizers shouldn't have let Nairo's group continue on their merry way and should have backed them into the maglia rosa group. Because they didn't, and nobody in the Quintana group thought the race was neutralized, there is absolutely no reason for them to back off.

 

[Carols]

Absolutely epic face by Fabio Aru

OMG that is epic suffering!!!!

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

OMG that is epic suffering!!!!

he does seem to be quite the hardman. looked cooked all day, but managed to do ok in the end