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A lot of talk about wheelsucking.
To me, that's all about following any and all wheels that are prepared to chase down an attack and not contributing to the work.
Cue Evans and Leipheimer.
Menchov has chased down all DDL's attacks, since Monte Petrano.
DDL being his one and only real threat.
What else is the guy to do?
Rocket off up the road, after responding to half a dozen accelerations?
I wonder what he'd get accused of then?
To me, that's all about following any and all wheels that are prepared to chase down an attack and not contributing to the work.
Cue Evans and Leipheimer.
Menchov has chased down all DDL's attacks, since Monte Petrano.
DDL being his one and only real threat.
What else is the guy to do?
Rocket off up the road, after responding to half a dozen accelerations?
I wonder what he'd get accused of then?
Mellow Velo said:
Very good points! Why should Menchov do any of the work? It's Di Luca that needs to gain time on him and is his only real threat, as Mellow said. It's like Ulrich asking LA to pull and LA refusing. Why should the leader help his main rival gain time on him or exert himself more than he needs to?!?!
But it is cool to see Menchov being able to answer every attack Di Luca throws at him. I didn't think he'd be able to hold up this long but he is defending the maglia rosa very well.
menchov
I really don't understand the criticism of Menchov, he's been fantastic this Giro. I will admit his style doesn't make me cheer for him, but he is winning the Giro and will deserve his win 100% (I'm ignoring the doping argument here).
Menchov has been isolated many times on climbs and is always answering Di Luca's attacks, I actually thought Menchov even showed some style in some of the previous climbs by riding alongside DLL and giving him the ol' stare-down. He is really getting into DLL's head, which in itself is a feat. It would be incredibly stupid for Menchov to try to attack DLL early in a climb, he has everything to lose and nothing to gain. Did you see the way Menchov was wobbling across the line today? I think he was on the rivet for a large part of the climb.
Lastly, to compare his "wheelsucking" to Evans and Leipheimer is just stupid - Evans and Leiphiemer are criticized for never attacking on the climbs to take the lead - I'm not sure people would be complaining if they had the leaders jersey and were defending their lead. When you're the leader, it's up to everyone else to attack you, not the other way around.
I really don't understand the criticism of Menchov, he's been fantastic this Giro. I will admit his style doesn't make me cheer for him, but he is winning the Giro and will deserve his win 100% (I'm ignoring the doping argument here).
Menchov has been isolated many times on climbs and is always answering Di Luca's attacks, I actually thought Menchov even showed some style in some of the previous climbs by riding alongside DLL and giving him the ol' stare-down. He is really getting into DLL's head, which in itself is a feat. It would be incredibly stupid for Menchov to try to attack DLL early in a climb, he has everything to lose and nothing to gain. Did you see the way Menchov was wobbling across the line today? I think he was on the rivet for a large part of the climb.
Lastly, to compare his "wheelsucking" to Evans and Leipheimer is just stupid - Evans and Leiphiemer are criticized for never attacking on the climbs to take the lead - I'm not sure people would be complaining if they had the leaders jersey and were defending their lead. When you're the leader, it's up to everyone else to attack you, not the other way around.
Oh, and very good point by Mellow Velo - I haven't seen Menchov looking around for someone else to pull him when Di Luca attacks, he's just going for it and not expecting favours.
A true wheelsucker would suck wheel up to 100m and then sprint effortlessly past the suckee (or however you call it) to collect the bonus seconds/stage win.
Jamsque said:
I couldn't agree more. If you have ridden up a catogorised climb and/or raced up a decent mountain - you would be a lot less likely to be throwing around comments about folks attacking or not attacking - like they are somehow lazy or inept.
Many of these guys are putting themselves through all kinds of pain - pain that many of us couldn't begin to imagine - they have to have supreme mental toughness to simply hang in there. (and in anticipation of those that might be about to say 'they are pro's and that's what they are paid to do' - money does not buy that kind of inner strength)
And we just don't know how much capacity Menchov had today - he has a great poker face - but if I were a betting man I would say he was digging pretty deep just to stay with Di Luca's numerous attacks. Menchov has never been one for skipping off up the road...
It was an awesome day to watch (from my armchair!)
mental toughness
+1 I can't imagine what it must feel like to line up each day knowing you'll be attacked relentlessly (they don't call DiLuca the killer for nothing), and that you'll have to turn yourself inside-out just to not lose the Giro.....Also glad to be watching from my armchair!
180mmCrank said:I couldn't agree more. If you have ridden up a catogorised climb and/or raced up a decent mountain - you would be a lot less likely to be throwing around comments about folks attacking or not attacking - like they are somehow lazy or inept.
Many of these guys are putting themselves through all kinds of pain - pain that many of us couldn't begin to imagine - they have to have supreme mental toughness to simply hang in there. (and in anticipation of those that might be about to say 'they are pro's and that's what they are paid to do' - money does not buy that kind of inner strength)
And we just don't know how much capacity Menchov had today - he has a great poker face - but if I were a betting man I would say he was digging pretty deep just to stay with Di Luca's numerous attacks. Menchov has never been one for skipping off up the road...
It was an awesome day to watch (from my armchair!)
+1 I can't imagine what it must feel like to line up each day knowing you'll be attacked relentlessly (they don't call DiLuca the killer for nothing), and that you'll have to turn yourself inside-out just to not lose the Giro.....Also glad to be watching from my armchair!
Menchov does not have to attack, with only one time trial left, the only thing he had to do (as the better TT'er) to make sure DDL wouldn't win too much time.
Why attacking and risking his whole giro, while he has practically won?
Why attacking and risking his whole giro, while he has practically won?
As I already expected Di Luca could not drop Menchov and only win boni seconds.
Mind you, without the 24 seconds Menchov lost in a flat stage (held up in a fall) and all the boni seconds (Di Luca won approx 35. more than Menchov), this Giro wouldn't even be exciting anymore.
Mind you, without the 24 seconds Menchov lost in a flat stage (held up in a fall) and all the boni seconds (Di Luca won approx 35. more than Menchov), this Giro wouldn't even be exciting anymore.
Gee333 said:
Just don't ask about any of the other Giro clasifications. NO ONE understands most of those.
180mmCrank said:
Yeah, agree entirely too. It's a "b...tch" for Levi and Cadel, LOL, but not for Menchov. He's a special, an exception evidently.
Velonews' take today: "Di Luca surged again, dropping Armstrong, but Menchov was like a magnet on steel."
"Running out of asphalt, Di Luca attacked again with less than 2km to go, but Menchov was more stubborn than a mother-in-law."
Shocking stuff
I mean the temerity of them to insult all mothers in law, and steel too. Clearly, the correspondent is insensitive to the merits of the protagonists, unappreciative, or has never had mother in law.
I'm not sure what people were expecting Menchov to do? Attack? If he were several minutes ahead of DDL on GC, then I could see him having a go at it for bravado's sake, that would be cool to see. But when they were so close to each other, no way. He wants to win the race, first of all, and rode a very smart race as such.
I'd like to make another pitch to limiting, or eliminating race radios. Here's why. When Sastre took off up the road, he could not be seen by the leaders due to the topography. They had no idea how far up the road he was. Except they did, because of race radio. Had there been no radio to give Menchov time splits on Sastre, Di Luca could have sat on Menchov's wheel and said "you guess how far he is up the mountain buddy" and Menchov would have had to at some point consider pulling, out of concern that he would lose to overall GC to Sastre. But he didn't have to do that. He only had to worry about one rider DDL. The team car kept checks on Sastre for him.
Not that this is Menchov's fault, at all. He played the hand he was dealt. And I understand DDL mostly doesn't even use radio. But I think my point is valid.
I'd like to make another pitch to limiting, or eliminating race radios. Here's why. When Sastre took off up the road, he could not be seen by the leaders due to the topography. They had no idea how far up the road he was. Except they did, because of race radio. Had there been no radio to give Menchov time splits on Sastre, Di Luca could have sat on Menchov's wheel and said "you guess how far he is up the mountain buddy" and Menchov would have had to at some point consider pulling, out of concern that he would lose to overall GC to Sastre. But he didn't have to do that. He only had to worry about one rider DDL. The team car kept checks on Sastre for him.
Not that this is Menchov's fault, at all. He played the hand he was dealt. And I understand DDL mostly doesn't even use radio. But I think my point is valid.
Well, I think he would have liked to attack if he had the legs. Remember he's only 18" ahead of DiLuca. Barring any changes today, a simple puncture in the final ITT could cost him the overall. Is rain in the forecast for Sunday in Rome?
Yes, still rain, so far, it is to be. Not a comfortable situation, "tactics" wise. Lots of sharp corners, I see.
My pt. yesterday is that at least they could go manno a manno, like Hinault and Lemond, and ride BESIDE each other on the climb. True "champions" in the wider sense of the word, like Lemond, Hinault, Armstrong would never do what we saw yesterday, never, no matter the legs.
My pt. yesterday is that at least they could go manno a manno, like Hinault and Lemond, and ride BESIDE each other on the climb. True "champions" in the wider sense of the word, like Lemond, Hinault, Armstrong would never do what we saw yesterday, never, no matter the legs.
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