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Stage 19, Avellino - Vesuvio, 164km

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Parrot23

Parrot23

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Bala Verde said:
ha, yep, he was of the Virenque school. Take time in the mountains and lose in the TT... ;)
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Except when he turned into a "rouleur", after visiting Lourdes. A miracle for the tifosi and the credulous--a genuine centrifuge when turning the pedals.
 
Bala Verde

Bala Verde

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Jamsque said:
I am getting really fed up with this. Anyone who is levelling 'wheelsucking' accusations at Menchov, Leipheimer or Evans has clearly never raced a bike up a hill in their life.

On the flat at high speeds, slipstreaming makes a big difference, and sitting in the wheels saves you a lot of energy. HOWEVER, once you hit 7/8/9 % slopes, the lower speeds make the advantages of sitting in someone's wheel vanishingly small. Hauling yourself up Vesuvius is incredibly hard, and whether or not you do it at the front of the group or the back makes very little difference. Menchov could have ridden in front of Di Luca today, sure, but the only difference it would have made is that it would have been harder for him to spot when Di Luca was attacking.

Even if you leave aside the fact that Menchov was only saving a tiny amount of energy by following Di Luca, this is professional goddamn bike racing. Menchov isn't trying to prove a point or show off, he is trying to win a Grand Tour. You don't win a grand tour by attacking every day and wasting energy. You have to be clever, you have to save your strength for the times when it will make the most difference. Menchov has done exactly that this Giro. His tactics have been flawless, and that's why he's in pink.

Menchov, Evans and Leipheimer may not be as aggresive as Di Luca and Contador, but that doesn't make them less talented bike riders.
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good post!
 
BroDeal

BroDeal

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Jamsque said:
I am getting really fed up with this. Anyone who is levelling 'wheelsucking' accusations at Menchov, Leipheimer or Evans has clearly never raced a bike up a hill in their life.

On the flat at high speeds, slipstreaming makes a big difference, and sitting in the wheels saves you a lot of energy. HOWEVER, once you hit 7/8/9 % slopes, the lower speeds make the advantages of sitting in someone's wheel vanishingly small. Hauling yourself up Vesuvius is incredibly hard, and whether or not you do it at the front of the group or the back makes very little difference. Menchov could have ridden in front of Di Luca today, sure, but the only difference it would have made is that it would have been harder for him to spot when Di Luca was attacking.

Even if you leave aside the fact that Menchov was only saving a tiny amount of energy by following Di Luca, this is professional goddamn bike racing. Menchov isn't trying to prove a point or show off, he is trying to win a Grand Tour. You don't win a grand tour by attacking every day and wasting energy. You have to be clever, you have to save your strength for the times when it will make the most difference. Menchov has done exactly that this Giro. His tactics have been flawless, and that's why he's in pink.

Menchov, Evans and Leipheimer may not be as aggresive as Di Luca and Contador, but that doesn't make them less talented bike riders.
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I think we have to realize that the heart of the wheelsucking argument is that certain riders are just not that interesting to watch. Riders like Evans and Leipheimer, who do not have a personality to compensate, make the matter worse. So they take a lot of flack that is not really fair.
 
Parrot23

Parrot23

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Mellow Velo said:
If I was selling elastic bands, I'd have Dennis Menchov as my poster boy.

Really is one for him to shift "Limpet" Menchov.
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Yeah, it's a bull market in elastic bands and limpet mines. It's a sort of magnetic* miracle cure from Lourdes.

I agree totally. :D

*You know those magnets they use in centrifuges (Iranian bike riders, type of thing; the nuke dope program).
 
Parrot23

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Bala Verde said:
Well that's for exposure, as well as to save their minimal results in a giro. No stage win, and far from a podium which such a team. After 2 weeks, seeing that all ambitions are shattered, you see lots of teams trying to get that one win just to salvage what's left of their prior goals.
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He's also trying to get in the racing rhythm, ramp up his race cojones, fitness.

It's not all public relations. ;)
 
Bala Verde

Bala Verde

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jmnikricket said:
If your specialty is TT, then you have a huge advantage in that other riders cannot use their teams or draft you. That's why time gaps are larger in TT and why there are no bonus seconds needed to reward good performances.

Man, Sastre looks zonked on the podium. Great effort!
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So for 'kicking it back' and draft, after which you win a bunch sprint, you get rewarded, but when you are doing a TT, by yourself, putting all the effort in individually, while it accidently happens to be your specialty, you don't deserve the reward that is given to others who did so much less. :confused:

I'd say, only award bonus s after TTs!
 
Jamsque

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Oh, I'll happily accept that Menchov and Leipheimer are not as exciting as to watch, say, Andy Shleck, but calling their riding 'disgraceful' is just plain ignorant. If Andy has the yellow jersey and a minute on the guy in 2nd come the Ventoux this summer he will probably ride exactly like Menchov did today.
 
Parrot23

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Jamsque said:
HOWEVER, once you hit 7/8/9 % slopes, the lower speeds make the advantages of sitting in someone's wheel vanishingly small.
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Good post, but that is not correct. The lit has shown drafting effects at the speeds pros climb as well. Not exponential like flats, but it's a couple of percentage pts. even on hills.

There also a thing called sharing the load. It's why pros get very mad at each other on the road. Not my opinion: just look at what pros do when people don't share the load.
 
Parrot23

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Enjoying spinning round my cage (like a human centrifuge), I'm looking for a deep-diving stage (where O2 is optional), one where you don't have to breathe. It's a pesky nuisance; it's just that my legs seem to go before my breathing pops, and I like swimming in pack of fish the best. :D
 
A

Anonymous

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DiLuca just can't shake Menchov!! See, those blood transfusions of Rabobank do work! j/k!

BTW, Giro newbie here... why does DiLuca where a dark pink kit compared to his LPR teamates? Does it signify something? The quake victims? Thanks in advance for the explanation!
 
Parrot23

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Gee333 said:
why does DiLuca where a dark pink kit compared to his LPR teamates? Does it signify something? The quake victims? Thanks in advance for the explanation!
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Maybe superoxygenated blood symbol, LOL. He's working on becoming a human fish too (a genuine deep diver, O2 is optional). Think he's more discreet with his home centrifuge: disguises it as the jacuzzi out the back. :cool:
 
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