Stage 19, Avellino - Vesuvio, 164km

[Bala Verde]

Okay, except for Rasmussen,

ha, yep, he was of the Virenque school. Take time in the mountains and lose in the TT...

 

[Parrot23]

Leech Leipheimer. Although Bottle sounds good too

LOL, but NO ONE can call Levi a leech compared with what we saw today. Never seen anything like it.

 

[Parrot23]

ha, yep, he was of the Virenque school. Take time in the mountains and lose in the TT...

Except when he turned into a "rouleur", after visiting Lourdes. A miracle for the tifosi and the credulous--a genuine centrifuge when turning the pedals.

 

[Bala Verde]

I am getting really fed up with this. Anyone who is levelling 'wheelsucking' accusations at Menchov, Leipheimer or Evans has clearly never raced a bike up a hill in their life.

On the flat at high speeds, slipstreaming makes a big difference, and sitting in the wheels saves you a lot of energy. HOWEVER, once you hit 7/8/9 % slopes, the lower speeds make the advantages of sitting in someone's wheel vanishingly small. Hauling yourself up Vesuvius is incredibly hard, and whether or not you do it at the front of the group or the back makes very little difference. Menchov could have ridden in front of Di Luca today, sure, but the only difference it would have made is that it would have been harder for him to spot when Di Luca was attacking.

Even if you leave aside the fact that Menchov was only saving a tiny amount of energy by following Di Luca, this is professional goddamn bike racing. Menchov isn't trying to prove a point or show off, he is trying to win a Grand Tour. You don't win a grand tour by attacking every day and wasting energy. You have to be clever, you have to save your strength for the times when it will make the most difference. Menchov has done exactly that this Giro. His tactics have been flawless, and that's why he's in pink.

Menchov, Evans and Leipheimer may not be as aggresive as Di Luca and Contador, but that doesn't make them less talented bike riders.

good post!

 

[BroDeal]

I am getting really fed up with this. Anyone who is levelling 'wheelsucking' accusations at Menchov, Leipheimer or Evans has clearly never raced a bike up a hill in their life.

On the flat at high speeds, slipstreaming makes a big difference, and sitting in the wheels saves you a lot of energy. HOWEVER, once you hit 7/8/9 % slopes, the lower speeds make the advantages of sitting in someone's wheel vanishingly small. Hauling yourself up Vesuvius is incredibly hard, and whether or not you do it at the front of the group or the back makes very little difference. Menchov could have ridden in front of Di Luca today, sure, but the only difference it would have made is that it would have been harder for him to spot when Di Luca was attacking.

Even if you leave aside the fact that Menchov was only saving a tiny amount of energy by following Di Luca, this is professional goddamn bike racing. Menchov isn't trying to prove a point or show off, he is trying to win a Grand Tour. You don't win a grand tour by attacking every day and wasting energy. You have to be clever, you have to save your strength for the times when it will make the most difference. Menchov has done exactly that this Giro. His tactics have been flawless, and that's why he's in pink.

Menchov, Evans and Leipheimer may not be as aggresive as Di Luca and Contador, but that doesn't make them less talented bike riders.

I think we have to realize that the heart of the wheelsucking argument is that certain riders are just not that interesting to watch. Riders like Evans and Leipheimer, who do not have a personality to compensate, make the matter worse. So they take a lot of flack that is not really fair.

 

[Parrot23]

If I was selling elastic bands, I'd have Dennis Menchov as my poster boy.

Really is one for him to shift "Limpet" Menchov.

Yeah, it's a bull market in elastic bands and limpet mines. It's a sort of magnetic* miracle cure from Lourdes.

I agree totally.

*You know those magnets they use in centrifuges (Iranian bike riders, type of thing; the nuke dope program).

 

[Parrot23]

Well that's for exposure, as well as to save their minimal results in a giro. No stage win, and far from a podium which such a team. After 2 weeks, seeing that all ambitions are shattered, you see lots of teams trying to get that one win just to salvage what's left of their prior goals.

He's also trying to get in the racing rhythm, ramp up his race cojones, fitness.

It's not all public relations.

 

[Bala Verde]

If your specialty is TT, then you have a huge advantage in that other riders cannot use their teams or draft you. That's why time gaps are larger in TT and why there are no bonus seconds needed to reward good performances.

Man, Sastre looks zonked on the podium. Great effort!

So for 'kicking it back' and draft, after which you win a bunch sprint, you get rewarded, but when you are doing a TT, by yourself, putting all the effort in individually, while it accidently happens to be your specialty, you don't deserve the reward that is given to others who did so much less.

I'd say, only award bonus s after TTs!

 

[Jamsque]

Oh, I'll happily accept that Menchov and Leipheimer are not as exciting as to watch, say, Andy Shleck, but calling their riding 'disgraceful' is just plain ignorant. If Andy has the yellow jersey and a minute on the guy in 2nd come the Ventoux this summer he will probably ride exactly like Menchov did today.

 

[Bala Verde]

He's also trying to get in the racing rhythm, ramp up his race cojones, fitness.

It's not all public relations.

cojon.....

 

[BroDeal]

cojon.....

Okay, that is funny.

 

[Parrot23]

HOWEVER, once you hit 7/8/9 % slopes, the lower speeds make the advantages of sitting in someone's wheel vanishingly small.

Good post, but that is not correct. The lit has shown drafting effects at the speeds pros climb as well. Not exponential like flats, but it's a couple of percentage pts. even on hills.

There also a thing called sharing the load. It's why pros get very mad at each other on the road. Not my opinion: just look at what pros do when people don't share the load.

 

[luckyboy]

I'd say, only award bonus s after TTs!

They should get rid of TTs altogether

 

[Parrot23]

Okay, that is funny.

San Jose. Co-joined, eh!

Armstrong, with one, would take the cake here. And I'm talking about bike racing, not biology.

And Alberto is Spanish. Good fit.

 

[jaylew]

They should get rid of TTs altogether

I'd rather them get rid of all flat stages.

 

[Bala Verde]

I'd rather them get rid of all flat stages.

and while we are at it, let's get rid of the designated 'mountain stages' without a mountain top finish!

 

[luckyboy]

and while we are at it, let's get rid of the designated 'mountain stages' without a mountain top finish!

We can keep the stages with a hill finish so Di Luca can win them right?

 

[Bala Verde]

We can keep the stages with a hill finish so Di Luca can win them right?

I vote for 3 weeks of la doyenne - LBL! No TTs, and 250k long every day.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

Let's get rid of everything except mountaintop finishes, great idea. Let's have a three week race with 21 mountaintop finishes and no rest days.

 

[luckyboy]

Some mountain TTs too

 

[Bala Verde]

Let's get rid of everything except mountaintop finishes, great idea. Let's have a three week race with 21 mountaintop finishes and no rest days.

Some mountain TTs too

I hope Christian PRUDHOMME is still following this forum!

 

[kjetilraknerud]

By the way, Garzelli and Rogers switched places in the GC today. But Rogers will finish in the top 10, good result for him after a couple of very difficult years!

 

[Parrot23]

Enjoying spinning round my cage (like a human centrifuge), I'm looking for a deep-diving stage (where O2 is optional), one where you don't have to breathe. It's a pesky nuisance; it's just that my legs seem to go before my breathing pops, and I like swimming in pack of fish the best.

 

[Anonymous]

DiLuca just can't shake Menchov!! See, those blood transfusions of Rabobank do work! j/k!

BTW, Giro newbie here... why does DiLuca where a dark pink kit compared to his LPR teamates? Does it signify something? The quake victims? Thanks in advance for the explanation!

 

[Parrot23]

why does DiLuca where a dark pink kit compared to his LPR teamates? Does it signify something? The quake victims? Thanks in advance for the explanation!

Maybe superoxygenated blood symbol, LOL. He's working on becoming a human fish too (a genuine deep diver, O2 is optional). Think he's more discreet with his home centrifuge: disguises it as the jacuzzi out the back.