Stapleton calls on people to look to the future, not the past

[131313]

I applaud that he's not taking the 'Floyd's a crazy, bitter drunk' tact that some others are taking.

That said, it's hard to take Stapleton seriously ever since the Hincapie/Aaron Olson incident (he shived Olson from T-Mobile when he had the audacity to ask "how can sell ourselves as a clean team and then bring on Hincapie?". His contract for next season then failed to show up..."). This is a pretty sad thing, because Olson is a remarkably similar rider in natural abilities to Hincapie. He opted to compete clean during the dirtiest times in cycling in his career path is the result.

As far as 'it's much better today', I think there are 2 glaring examples of why it's not that much better: the Astana transfusion kits. The fact that the UCI seems intent on burying this shows that at the top level, the governing body of the sport is corrupt. Secondly, Thomas Frei. When an average guy is doping and telling how easy it is not to get caught, it's hard to say much has changed.

 

[carl spackler]

The Horror The Horror

Look, deBathification did not work too well in the aftermath of the Iraq war because the Bathists were so much apart of the society. It's same with cycling.

Good point. If we eliminate the cycling establishment, who knows what kind of chaos will ensue? How many innocent lives will be lost? Next thing you know we will have military rule in France. Where will I get my new tubes? It would be decades before bar tape will be available. The Horror the Horror

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Funny, they said the same thing about Festina. Then Peurto. Then Manzano. Then Jaschke. Then Kohl. Now Floyd.

If someone could just let me know when the future starts, I'll take the advice.

Hmmm, Taylor Phinney?

 

[red_flanders]

Hmmm, Taylor Phinney?

Yes!! Oh...wait...

 

[bianchigirl]

Sorry BMC not sure what 'fans' you're talking about? Fans of Armstrong (so rarely fans of cycling)? Fans of the UCI? Some fans of cycling would like to be able to think the sport clean in the face of all evidence to the contrary, some old cynics like me think it's so dirty through and through that the best thing to is keep turning a blind eye - after all, watching 'clean' Cuddles being the only rider able to keep contact with Basso & Scarponi is either a huge farce or absolutely credible

 

[VeloCity]

Look, deBathification did not work too well in the aftermath of the Iraq war because the Bathists were so much apart of the society. It's same with cycling. Doping was such common practise across the sport that almost everybody will have a connection to it in some way. The best way is take a south African or Russian approach post the soviet union and look to the future instead of being McCathyite about it.

The clean teams and riders don't want your approach. The fans don't want your approach. It's bad for the sport.

Lets move forward and not hold grudges. The past is the past.

Funny, I don't remember too many cycling "fans" such as yourself saying this when Jef d'Hont was single-handedly taking down Riis and Ullrich and T-Mob with his doping accusations, which, of course, turned out to be entirely true. Why is it that this "the past is the past" thing only ever seems to pop up when it comes to Armstrong?

 

[VeloCity]

Stop dogpiling on one guy and start looking at the whole picture. If you think that Armstrong and his associates are everything wrong, then you are truly as blind as they are.

Do you even bother to read the other threads on this forum? Go read the threads on Cancellara, Vinokorouv, Valverde, etc before posting crap like that.

 

[buckwheat]

After those previous scandels there was a hope that the morals of the sport would change.

In Chinese in regard to combat there is a saying that goes something like, "kick the dog so the lion hears it."

Also the "bigger they are, the harder they fall."

"Pride goeth before a fall." etc.....

When the tragedy of Pharmstrong, Hincapie, DZ, LL, Floyd, the whole sordid mess plays out, there are going to be a lot of people who are going to think twice about selling their souls.

But this time they're not relying on the riders good will. They have a system that is squeezing doping itself - the window to dope is getting smaller and smaller.

Right, so now the big shots like Pharmstrong have a sophisticated system where they transfuse their own blood.

No "scheme" is ever going to be successful without the majority of participants buying into a system of personal integrity and ethical behavior.

What happens when gene doping is pervasive? You gonna turn a blind eye to that freak show?

It's interesting that you mentipon Peurto because most people believe that scandal has now on too long consider how long ago it was. So we want to start investigating from even further back, and have that go on for years?

Whose fault is that? That's a rhetorical question I'm going to have to answer for you because you're deliberately confusing the issue.

It's the fault of the drug cheats. It always takes the truth a while to catch up with a lie.

I guess you think it's ok for the cheats to defame LeMond to cover their own asses.

I agree with those that say the sport has moved on and it doesn't serve any good purpose to have this spectacle clouding out everything. If Floyd feels some personal release in admitting to his doping then that's great, but it really isn't necessary to take down the sport with him by focusing on the past and getting the police involved.

That's why Floyd talked before the statute of limitations expired on these crimes.

The collective people have decided by having such statutes when it's time to let bygones be bygones with respect to criminal activities.

Obviously with regard to FL's revelations that time hasn't expired.

We are talking about sport here after all. It's not fair on the clean riders today. .

They have mouths and their own volition. We're seeing how this is playing out with this punk Taylor Phinney. I guess it's time for the young riders to man up and stop worshipping false idols like LA and GH.

I bet if we could poll them they would be against this..

Damn, you're a shameless weasel. We're going to poll some young greyhounds with no experience whatsoever in worldly things while the older dissemblers hide behind them?

If you don't like Armstrong then don't buy his stuff or support him - but don't ruin cycling just to get at one man..

If you weren't so delusional you'd realize that cycling is ruined already. No one can trust the results of the races. If that's not what defines ruined I don't know what is. Maybe it would be that the parasites can't suck any more money from the sport? Is that how you define ruined?

Look what Floyd has done to the ToC?

Telling the truth in things that matter is always a good thing.

Way to gild the lilly.

 

[buckwheat]

Why is it that this "the past is the past" thing only ever seems to pop up when it comes to Armstrong?

Two possibilities:

Mancrush

Fear

 

[Maxiton]

Anti doping people in the sport report this, the results of riders always thought to be clean show this, and the blood passport shows that doping cannot be at anywhere the level that it was. There is now almost a level playing field - the effects of doping are much more marginal and this is improving every year. In the few years the blood passport will have almost gotten rid of it.

Lots of big names may have been involved with doping in the past but they simply can't be now a days. It's not fair on the sport to go back and investigate when they were doing seven or eight years ago and ruin what good work has been done.

Is this about vengence against a hand full of riders, or about the future of the sport?

It's not about vengeance against a handful of riders, Mr. BMC Fan, and you know that. It's about the entire peloton, and all the yesterdays that brought us to today. And more than anything it's about today.

It's more realistic to say that they can't not be doping today, given that that's the way it's always been done. Have you been paying attention?

Earlier this season, two minor young riders spilled the beans about the extremely sophisticated protocol they followed to evade detection and defeat the doping tests. Shortly thereafter, gastrointeritous seemed to be spreading among members of the peloton wherever they might be in the world. Obviously many riders were having a common reaction to something.

It's willfully blind attitudes like yours that allow this doping to continue. Do us a favor and stick it in your hat.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

The uncomfortable posturings from Stapleton, McQuaid et al to forget the past and look to the future is naive; there is no future without dealing adequately with the past.

It's like telling the Poles to forget about Belsen, the indigenous Australians and Americans to forget about genocide and reconciliation, the Bosnians ethnic cleansing.

Nevermind the guilty consciences that are the motivation for such dissembling, it's psychologically and culturally ignorant as well. They must think we're all fools.

 

[Maxiton]

If all they cared about was the future, then why didnt any of them give Floyd a ride?

Good question. Not even Armstrong was willing to do it. Why? Probably a combination of Floyd being completely radioactive and an unpredictable, loose cannon (ie, always out to blackmail someone, anyone).

I applaud that he's not taking the 'Floyd's a crazy, bitter drunk' tact that some others are taking.

That said, it's hard to take Stapleton seriously ever since the Hincapie/Aaron Olson incident (he shived Olson from T-Mobile when he had the audacity to ask "how can sell ourselves as a clean team and then bring on Hincapie?". His contract for next season then failed to show up..."). This is a pretty sad thing, because Olson is a remarkably similar rider in natural abilities to Hincapie. He opted to compete clean during the dirtiest times in cycling in his career path is the result.

Yeah, that's why Armstrong lurved the Stapleton team. They made some noise about being clean, then they practiced business as usual.

As far as 'it's much better today', I think there are 2 glaring examples of why it's not that much better: the Astana transfusion kits. The fact that the UCI seems intent on burying this shows that at the top level, the governing body of the sport is corrupt. Secondly, Thomas Frei. When an average guy is doping and telling how easy it is not to get caught, it's hard to say much has changed.

Fair point.

 

[Galic Ho]

Stapleon might like to get Frodo off his transfusions and medical program, and teeth braces.

He can't. Too late for Frodo as the HGH has already made his mandible jaw grow and hence the braces. How many 24 year olds need braces in their twenties but not in their teens? None. Frodo has been on the growth drugs and his mouth has grown and his tooth alignment is now uber messed up. Hence the Braces. Stapleton could stop him but the damage has been done.

 

[red_flanders]

He can't. Too late for Frodo as the HGH has already made his mandible jaw grow and hence the braces. How many 24 year olds need braces in their twenties but not in their teens? None. Frodo has been on the growth drugs and his mouth has grown and his tooth alignment is no uber messed up. Stapleton could stop him but the damage has been done.

I have several friends from...let's just say island nations in the northwest of Europe who aren't renowned for great teeth or superb dentistry...who have had braces well into their late 20's and early thirties. They finally came into enough money to make it worthwhile, and lived in the US where most folks have straight teeth. Not sure how that would be any different for Cavendish.

Let's not get carried away and accuse people of doping because they have their teeth fixed. Kind of hurts the credibility of other doping arguments. Just MO.

 

[scribe]

Agreed. I think the comments have good merit. He's acknowledging the past was bad but there has been changes. Problem being the past problem namely Atmstrong still rides and has a large influence on cycling. As long as Armstrong still rides the problem remain.

too funny. Don't think you are on the last boat to fantasy island. There are plenty more behind that one and you know it.

 

[Maxiton]

He can't. Too late for Frodo as the HGH has already made his mandible grow and hence the braces. How many 24 year olds need braces in their twenties but not in their teens? None. Frodo has been on the growth drugs and his mouth has grown and his tooth alignment is now uber messed up. Hence the Braces. Stapleton could stop him but the damage has been done.

I have several friends from...let's just say island nations in the northwest of Europe who aren't renowned for great teeth or superb dentistry...who have had braces well into their late 20's and early thirties. They finally came into enough money to make it worthwhile, and lived in the US where most folks have straight teeth.

Don't over rate American cosmetic dental practices. True, a lot of Americans have teeth that are crazy white and straight, but a great deal more have no dental care whatsoever.

Galic Ho's assertion is chilling if true.

 

[Galic Ho]

I have several friends from...let's just say island nations in the northwest of Europe who aren't renowned for great teeth or superb dentistry...who have had braces well into their late 20's and early thirties. They finally came into enough money to make it worthwhile, and lived in the US where most folks have straight teeth. Not sure how that would be any different for Cavendish.

Let's not get carried away and accuse people of doping because they have their teeth fixed. Kind of hurts the credibility of other doping arguments. Just MO.

Cav hasn't had cash problems. Economics aside, I was stating his teeth have in fact gotten worse. He had the cash to deal with it before, but didn't. Why not? Surely you saw all the HGH jaw jokes last year in the Clinic? It fits.

Then again maybe Cav does come from an impoverished background. Perhaps that explains why his brother was a pot dealer? Poor background, quick cash. No...Cav still waited 4 plus years into his pro career to get them fixed. The British national team, if like the Aussie track team, get subsidised health care. Glasses, dental and even braces are paid for. Heck they'll even pay for nose surgery for a deviated septum. He got braces because his teeth suddenly got worse. Grown men don't change like that unless they have pituitary problems. Note nothing else grew other than Cav's ego, so no pituitary problem.

 

[Maxiton]

nothing else grew other than Cav's ego

LOL.

HEH - Human Ego Hormone.

 

[Galic Ho]

LOL.

HEH - Human Ego Hormone.

Good one.

Stapleton's comment is aggravating because he tied in Cav and Martin with two of the (arguably) cleanest riders who happen to be very anti-doping and have copped flacked from StrongArm, since his comeback, because of it. Cav and Martin, heck anyone on HTC (I am the same age as one of them and live 60km's from his home) is not clean. No way that train can be clean. Clever PR stunt. Might even catch some of the in-the-know fans out with the subtle association of his riders (plus Farrar) with Damiano and Linus. Not me. Stapleton is part of the problem, always has been. The new and improved T-Mobile, take II. Yeah baby, go the HTC train!!!

 

[issoisso]

Stapleton needs to STFU.
The last thing we need is to let them get away with it. Not the least because most of those names are clearly still up to their old tricks

Stapleton has that opinion because he was involved in that tainted past.

You're confusing Bill Stapleton with Bob Stapleton

 

[Cozy Beehive]

He can't. Too late for Frodo as the HGH has already made his mandible jaw grow and hence the braces. How many 24 year olds need braces in their twenties but not in their teens? None. Frodo has been on the growth drugs and his mouth has grown and his tooth alignment is now uber messed up. Hence the Braces. Stapleton could stop him but the damage has been done.

As hilarious as this sounds, I think you're way off in implicating Cavendish of soaking up on HGH. Thats one of the easier ones to detect , and you'd think by now they'd have nabbed him.

 

[issoisso]

As hilarious as this sounds, I think you're way off in implicating Cavendish of soaking up on HGH. Thats one of the easier ones to detect , and you'd think by now they'd have nabbed him.

No it's not. The window of detection for HGH is around 3 hours and one dose will last you several months.

 

[ExRower]

Stapleton needs to STFU.
The last thing we need is to let them get away with it. Not the least because most of those names are clearly still up to their old tricks




You're confusing Bill Stapleton with Bob Stapleton

My bad, sorry if I caused any confusion.

 

[Galic Ho]

As hilarious as this sounds, I think you're way off in implicating Cavendish of soaking up on HGH. Thats one of the easier ones to detect , and you'd think by now they'd have nabbed him.

There is a reported test for HGH. The UCI and WADA do not use it. If they did, world sports would go into meltdown. HGH is not easy to detect. Very hard to catch. The test was ready last year (rumour) but needed tweaking. You're dreaming if you think people cannot and do not use it all the time in pro sports. Easy to get, abundant and it works. Great for recovery and muscle fibre rebuilding.

 

[trailrunner]

He got braces because his teeth suddenly got worse. Grown men don't change like that unless they have pituitary problems. Note nothing else grew other than Cav's ego, so no pituitary problem.

Glad you're not on my jury, because when I was 24 I was told that I needed to have braces. No, I didn't have pituitary problems or take PEDs.