State of Peloton 2023

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Watching with or without the belief that most have doped, you still see the same images on your screen. The drama of cycling is excellent, no matter how that sausage is made.

I think this year's Giro may have less drama, after watching how Remco pounded Ganna in a way nobody else can pound Ganna.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

The tweet said something along the lines that riders are gene doping by modifying slc16a1 gene and something about PPARδ receptor agonists

I posted prior to reading this. Now I'm intrigued. If it isn't happening, it will happen. It's a brave new world.

 

[Rob5091]

Even The Economist magazine is writing about weight loss drugs - https://www.economist.com/the-econo...-the-new-generation-of-weight-loss-drugs-work
"The drugs semaglutide (sold as Wegovy) and tirzepatide (to be sold as Mounjaro) imitate the action of glucagon-like peptide-1 (glp-1), one such hormone. This increases the production of insulin (which transports blood sugar into body cells) and reduces the production of glucagon (which releases sugar into the bloodstream from the liver). It also slows down the rate at which the stomach empties, creating a feeling of fullness that reduces appetite. In addition, the drug may increase energy expenditure by changing fat tissue into brown adipose tissue, which is more likely to be burned at rest. These effects not only help diabetics, but also promote weight loss.
There are drawbacks. Side-effects of glp-1 drugs include nausea and vomiting and there are concerns that they may increase a person’s risk of developing thyroid tumours."
Thyroid problems and weight loss - is it the reason riders were talking to the press about thyroid medication? We must wait and see.

 

[noob]

I'm genuinely curious to know what attracts people to the sport.
I was first introduced back in the mid-eighties by John Tesh and the weekly hour-long TdF highlights, and was instantly hooked.
I watched in absolute awe as LeMond and Hinault were the lone riders standing on a mountain finish stage in a grueling 3-week race (this was prior to learning about tactics) and I figured I'd try to emulate the very best and strongest athletes in the world. Those riders were like mythical figures, and I set out to be like them.
Four years later I was much closer in strength to the aforementioned riders than when starting, which coincided with my introduction to PED's in the sport. I came from a cycling backwater with no infrastructure or backstory, and learning about what was going on from the likes of Paul Kimmage was a huge eye opener. I know for sure I would have doped to win if given the opportunity, but that's beside the point.
My point being is I wonder what people who know what's going on keeps them interested in the spectacle. Anyone paying attention knows that the likelihood of these riders being clean are pretty much nil, so what keeps you watching?
I admit that I'm the epitome of naivety -- "Say it ain't so, Joe" -- but watching riders summit a mountaintop finish with mouth closed kind of ruins it for me. It takes all the excitement away.
What, if any, advice to people have to just let it go and enjoy the sport for what it is?

Every time I see someone out of it after a finish I squee with happiness.

I watch because it's so freaking relaxing and exciting simultaneously. The sound of the choppers, the beautiful scenery, the spectacle and all the emotions. I always fall asleep when it's the most exciting, andi love that dreamlike state. The post race interviews, love them. The post race interviews are not as fun when there's no racing context.

The parasocial relationships are real. One starts to care about the humans on the bicycles. Old favourite activity finding hidden social media accounts. Spot the psychopaths and narcissists. Finding the autistics is fun too. I like introverts. Cycling is full of them.

The arms race in itself is psychologically rewarding to watch. Just like a volcano exploding before you see the images of people burning from the lava. When the latter happens is when people like me stops watching.

Oh and is there anything more addicting in life than proving ones own hypothesis?

Being an idiot is the best thing in life. 🥂 🥰

 

[the delgados]

Every time I see someone out of it after a finish I squee with happiness.

I watch because it's so freaking relaxing and exciting simultaneously. The sound of the choppers, the beautiful scenery, the spectacle and all the emotions. I always fall asleep when it's the most exciting, andi love that dreamlike state. The post race interviews, love them. The post race interviews are not as fun when there's no racing context.

The parasocial relationships are real. One starts to care about the humans on the bicycles. Old favourite activity finding hidden social media accounts. Spot the psychopaths and narcissists. Finding the autistics is fun too. I like introverts. Cycling is full of them.

The arms race in itself is psychologically rewarding to watch. Just like a volcano exploding before you see the images of people burning from the lava. When the latter happens is when people like me stops watching.

Oh and is there anything more addicting in life than proving ones own hypothesis?

Being an idiot is the best thing in life. 🥂 🥰

noob: Save that for later, when someone asks you to use it as a forward to a book about the sport. Or maybe write the book yourself. I'd prefer to read it rather than subject myself to watching a 200 km flat stage of the TdF.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Even The Economist magazine is writing about weight loss drugs - https://www.economist.com/the-econo...-the-new-generation-of-weight-loss-drugs-work
"The drugs semaglutide (sold as Wegovy) and tirzepatide (to be sold as Mounjaro) imitate the action of glucagon-like peptide-1 (glp-1), one such hormone. This increases the production of insulin (which transports blood sugar into body cells) and reduces the production of glucagon (which releases sugar into the bloodstream from the liver). It also slows down the rate at which the stomach empties, creating a feeling of fullness that reduces appetite. In addition, the drug may increase energy expenditure by changing fat tissue into brown adipose tissue, which is more likely to be burned at rest. These effects not only help diabetics, but also promote weight loss.
There are drawbacks. Side-effects of glp-1 drugs include nausea and vomiting and there are concerns that they may increase a person’s risk of developing thyroid tumours."
Thyroid problems and weight loss - is it the reason riders were talking to the press about thyroid medication? We must wait and see.

At the same time the top riders before the recent new acceleration over the last few years looked a lot more unhealthy thin, almost anorexic, with Vingegaard being the only exception. Guys like Roglic, Pogacar and Remco all look lean, but nothing compared to the Froome era.

That's why I don't think it's AICAR and some weight loss drugs, it seems to be something else.

 

[Rob5091]

I would guess a cocktail of individually adjusted substances plus all the food weighing etc etc.
The "Stick Insect Era" does seems to be over.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I would guess a cocktail of individually adjusted substances plus all the food weighing etc etc.
The "Stick Insect Era" does seems to be over.

Yes, it looks like things have changed.
For the first time since the really early 90ies we don't seem to have an idea what kind of substances are now the key ingredient.

 

[pastronef]

2 stages in a row at the Giro where the break goes eeeeasily. no 50 kmh for the 1st hour

 

[Rico044]

Yes, it looks like things have changed.
For the first time since the really early 90ies we don't seem to have an idea what kind of substances are now the key ingredient.

So that Ufe twitter account is now gone, but someone replied to one of his tweets with the following substance name: hemarina

It looks like it is some sort of synthetic hemoglobin

 

[Mayomaniac]

So that Ufe twitter account is now gone, but someone replied to one of his tweets with the following substance name: hemarina

It looks like it is some sort of synthetic hemoglobin

With the Bio Passport not holding up in court against decent names with some money behind them (Kreuziger and Henao) I can see some more sophisticated oxygen vector doping becoming more popular.

 

[V3R1T4S]

Given that oxygen vector doping disproportionately helps the "muscle" phenotype over the "stick insect" phenotype, if it's something like synthetic hemoglobin then I am not surprised at all at many of the outstanding performances in the last 3 years.

 

[Rackham]

State of the peloton?

Not doped enough, apparently.

I get some observers want spectacle but I have to ask myself whether they even realize what made Pantani drop everyone back in the late 1990's. Even Rob Hatch & the Eurosport team were waxing lyrical about Pantani's 1999 Gran Sasso victory. Are they for real? What is going on?

Is it any surprise we get mutants every generation considering that's what the people demand? That's a rhetorical question of course.

Now ironically in week 3 of this Giro when the watts nukes are invariably dropped (like Jai Hindley last year but way more pronounced considering the calibre of the names in this race), we're guaranteed to see a bombardment of "he's doped!" posts aimed at whomever annihilates the field most effectively.

Such a whiplash between "xyz riders aren't fast enough!" versus "xyz riders are too fast!" makes my head spin a little. Now this mini-rant post isn't aimed at the people who know there's doping going on & demand an appropriate level of associated spectacle, no, I'm talking about the casual plebeians who can't make up their minds between demanding more spectacle one minute & then ranting about "muh bad dopers" the next.

 

[Rob5091]

It is odd that Eurosport have no problem talking about Pantani, but very silent about "that Texan". There does seem to be some old Pantani fanboys at Eurosport.

 

[Salvarani]

It is odd that Eurosport have no problem talking about Pantani, but very silent about "that Texan". There does seem to be some old Pantani fanboys at Eurosport.

Pantani still has his results and has a sort of mythical status about him. A martyr, because of his tragic death.

The other one is known as one of the biggest cheaters in sport, that has ever existed. Stripped of most of his results and glory. To mention him in a good light would be very bad. At least on air.

 

[Rob5091]

Pantani still has his results and has a sort of mythical status about him. A martyr, because of his tragic death.

The other one is known as one of the biggest cheaters in sport, that has ever existed. Stripped of most of his results and glory. To mention him in a good light would be very bad. At least on air.

So if Armstrong had o.d.-ed on coke in a Vegas hotel, he'd still have his results and we could talk about him?

 

[Salvarani]

So if Armstrong had o.d.-ed on coke in a Vegas hotel, he'd still have his results and we could talk about him?

In that hypothetical scenario... he wouldnt have been able to make his comeback and he probably would have never been "caught". His results would have still been there and he would have been known as one of the greatest riders of this sport and not a cheater.

 

[BR2]

So if Armstrong had o.d.-ed on coke in a Vegas hotel, he'd still have his results and we could talk about him?

Armstrong has a worse reputation for several reasons, one is that Pantani died a tragic early death and he didn't. Also Pantani never literally sold us his miracle cancer story. Also there are different accounts about his character but he's not known to be narcisstic *** who dared other people to leave his storyline. Also, he was a highly entertaining rider, not known to be robotic with a strong team behind him but someone who struggled in the time trials and had to overcome the deficit on epic mountain stages.

Really, of course there's a lot of bigotry, but it's no wonder they are seen differently today.

 

[staubsauger]

Pantani was tared and featherd by the media & Co when he was still alive which after his death even made Richard Virenque furiously blaming them for going after a depressed man.

 

[zlev11]

Even The Economist magazine is writing about weight loss drugs - https://www.economist.com/the-econo...-the-new-generation-of-weight-loss-drugs-work
"The drugs semaglutide (sold as Wegovy) and tirzepatide (to be sold as Mounjaro) imitate the action of glucagon-like peptide-1 (glp-1), one such hormone. This increases the production of insulin (which transports blood sugar into body cells) and reduces the production of glucagon (which releases sugar into the bloodstream from the liver). It also slows down the rate at which the stomach empties, creating a feeling of fullness that reduces appetite. In addition, the drug may increase energy expenditure by changing fat tissue into brown adipose tissue, which is more likely to be burned at rest. These effects not only help diabetics, but also promote weight loss.
There are drawbacks. Side-effects of glp-1 drugs include nausea and vomiting and there are concerns that they may increase a person’s risk of developing thyroid tumours."
Thyroid problems and weight loss - is it the reason riders were talking to the press about thyroid medication? We must wait and see.

i read about this stuff a few months ago and thought for a second it could be used by cyclists, but all these drugs really do is make you not feel hungry, so you eat less. they dont actually cause weight loss on their own. not exactly ideal for an endurance cyclist to not want to consume calories. it's used by models and actors to get slim but they aren't also on their bike, busting their asses 6 hours a day. so i dont think these drugs would work very well. could be wrong though, maybe it's all part of the modern doping cocktail and there's something else that makes up for the missing calories.

 

[Rob5091]

Missing calories? Rice and lots of it apparently!

Edit - Everyone loves the ketones! ( I think I had a CD by them once ...) According to https://www.ciclismointernacional.com/evenepoel-esta-usando-cetonas-despues-de-cada-etapa-del-giro/ Remco's on the ketones after every stage.

​

 

[pastronef]

that bottle is 35 euros. available for you and me at the shops. it's a non case. just for gossip and clicks. call me when it's banned

 

[Rackham]

On the Covid situation: I have no idea what's going on.

But, I'll say this much: I find it beyond hilarious (sad?) there's such a willingness to doubt, question & deride sporting performances in pro cycling ("he doped! "she's doped!" "they're all doped!") but when it comes to teams communicating on Covid, anything other than a blanket belief in their team doctors & acceptance of everything they say (including statements from men like Yvon Vanmol!!!) is seen as a... conspiracy theory.

This does make me chuckle a bit because literally every single inclination in this part of the forum is itself... a conspiracy theory. Lance Armstrong's entire career went from being a conspiracy 'theory' to a very real conspiracy. So maybe Covid is legitimately a concern in the Giro, maybe Covid is a concern in pro cycling in particular because of the chemical mix floating around in these rider's veins anyway, or maybe Covid is just a pretext for something else. Who knows. But questioning stuff is totally normal considering the history of this sport & more importantly who these people in the peloton are & what they've done in the past.

I will also add that getting a cold, a flu or a sickness of some sort is absolutely part of pro cycling & GT racing. Especially in the execrable conditions we see in this Giro 2023. There will never be a GT in this sort of weather without illness in the peloton. It's just not happening, ever.

 

[Netserk]

conspiracy theory.

The usage of that term has become extremely lazy.

 

[fmk_RoI]

The difference between then and now @Rackham is that back then people had evidence. And they had an actual theory too, not just a conspiracy. What have you got? Feck all save calling anyone who challenges your anti-Evenepoel ranting a fanboi.

Put up or shut up.