State of the Peloton 2024

[Krzysztof_O]

Imagine something like this happens at the Tour start... (hint: watch the image carefully )

 

[snipeheem]

Imagine something like this happens at the Tour start... (hint: watch the image carefully )

Amazing photo

 

[Froome]

Imagine something like this happens at the Tour start... (hint: watch the image carefully )

The guy with a covered face is San Millan.

 

[Ripper]

The guy with a covered face is San Millan.

Which one is f*cking mou?!

 

[Froome]

Which one is f*cking mou?!

If i speak i'm in big trouble.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

The guy with a covered face is San Millan.

Did you notice the fishy police man above Pogi? This is the picture's highlight!

 

[AmRacer]

Which one is f*cking mou?!

I cannot tell from the image they are doing that.

 

[Froome]

Did you notice the fishy police man above Pogi? This is the picture's highlight!

Brilliant!

 

[Ripper]

I know the chances of this happening are nearly zero, but still, here is hoping that both Tad and Jo both fall apart at some point during the race. With the lead ups each has had, with modern tapering and all that other jazz, they certainly have no business blowing out the competition, and it would certainly make things more believable and human.

Perhaps we can see some sort of weirdness where Pog falls apart like a cheap suit in the final few days, and Vingo has a pretty miserable first half and then builds, but nether wins and the race is actually interesting for everyone but the rabid fanboys (who never find it as good if their rider is not dominating)

 

[Red Rick]

I know the chances of this happening are nearly zero, but still, here is hoping that both Tad and Jo both fall apart at some point during the race. With the lead ups each has had, with modern tapering and all that other jazz, they certainly have no business blowing out the competition, and it would certainly make things more believable and human.

They are not 0.

Wilco Kelderman is riding, he may do a Blockhaus again

 

[ahsoe]

This might seem like a very stupid question (I am no doctor/health professional/researcher).

Since I started following cycling in the mid-nineties focus has been on mainly blood transfusions and EPO. Both, as I understand it, boosting your amount of red blood cells and thereby your ability to carry oxygen to the muscles.

With first CERA, then the Aicar + GW1516 (?) and possibly other forms of newer generation EPO, is it possible that a drug, or a combination of drugs are around that will work similar to EPO, but not increase your hematocrit levels like EPO/blood bags? Giving the same end result, but taking another route, so to speak?
Is it possible to boost your performance without boosting the hematocrit levels and red blood cell count?
I am asking since I genuinely cannot understand the current situation where we are seeing superhuman performances, but no doping positives.

That is one explanation. On top of that, I have to conclude, that the genuine interest in catching dopers stopped in the years after Contadors doping case when Team Sky emerged. Due to PR and financial reasons.

 

[Nomad]

GW1516 is not an ESA & doesn't influence hematological values at all. It's PPAR agonist/modulator that improves metabolism & fat oxidation. It was touted as "excercise in a pill" that was supposed to solve the obesity crisis. However, GlaxoSmithKline abandoned the project after lab animals were developing cancer during the phase 1 trials. Nonetheless, it's still popular with some dopers especially strength athletes (go figure Lol). Aicar also doesn't influence hematological values & like GW1516 influences metabolism & fat oxidation through genetic pathways.

CERA is a 3rd gen ESA. 1st gen is Epogen/Procrit, 2nd gen is Darbopoetin (Aranesp). CERA is popular with dopers because of the injection frequency. Only 1-2 injections per month to reach target Hct levels vs 2-3 injections per week for Epogen & 1 per week for Nesp.

Another popular ESA is FG-4592 (Roxadustat) which is a HIF (hypoxia-inducible factor). It was developed as an anti-anemia drug for renal failure & CKD patients. Research also shows it reduces oxidative stress & inflammation. It is administered in oral form - the only ESA that doesn't need to be injected (dopers refer to it as "oxygen in a pill"). And dopers were already on top of this using the drug years before it was even FDA-approved! There have been several endurance athletes testing positive for FG-4592 including a few cyclists. If it wasn't for a test developed, FG-4592 would be a doper's dream. Lol.

Exogenous testosterone was shown in a study to increase hematological values in a dose-dependant manner but primarily in older men over 60 with low-T levels (~10%) vs younger men 19-35 yrs old with normal T levels (~5%).

Microdosing EPO is still undetectable & doesn't trigger the ABP hematological markers. And small blood transfusions done within the upper & lower parameters of the ABP also wouldn't trigger a red flag. And according to a recent study, small amounts of blood transfusions can produce significant gains in endurance performance.

IMO, it's still O2-Vector doping they're pursuing to get that edge. And if you look at the distance running side of things, WADA is seeing a significant number of EPO positives & ABP hematological-anomalies cases - some with top elites.

A Drug Hits Cycling Before It Hits the Market (Published 2015)

FG-4592, which increases production of red blood cells, is not approved for human consumption but nonetheless has led to two positive tests just this month.

www.nytimes.com

Small Amount of Blood Doping: Large Impact. - PCC - Global Anti-Doping Research Grants for Scientists and Researchers

New data from a PCC funded study from the Department of Nutrition, Exercise and Sports at the University of Copenhagen reveals that a small blood transfusion of only 135 ml of red blood cells can improve performance in cycling and other [...]

cleancompetition.org

 

[KOM]

Frankly it's the other way around, most of the more famous SARMS are the cheaper alternative and often rather easy to detect and they are still supressing your Test and have at least some side effects.
Now peptides is another ball game, but a growth hormone secretagoge like Ibutamoren/Mk-677 (not a peptide) is seen as the cheaper alternative to HGH.

Expensive peptides and maybe some designer drug stuff to make them pretty much undetectable for regular anti-doping for the top riders on the top teams sounds plausible to me, but regular SARMS are gymbro stuff and only low level riders get caught on stuff like Ostarine (for example).

Sounds more like an ad for a SARMS/peptide selling online shop, tbh.

Agreed, my 2nd hobby after cycling is bodybuilding, where this stuff is much more openly discussed and afaik HGH is still king (not for building muscle necessarily, but when compared to SARMS/petides)

 

[Rob5091]

Everyone is apparently not in topshape, gone down with Covid sometime and still recovering from crashes. So it'll be interesting to see how fast these "walking wounded" actually race - I'm guessing ... "full gas"!

 

[Ripper]

Everyone is apparently not in topshape, gone down with Covid sometime and still recovering from crashes. So it'll be interesting to see how fast these "walking wounded" actually race - I'm guessing ... "full gas"!

Interesting isn't it? With all the talk of it being impossible to build form during the race, and you need to be in top form coming in. Apparently, the way some people are talking, you would think they are in such poor shape they would have difficulty finishing an industrial park Crit!

That is, everyone but UAE, who are bullish and even though TPo had Covid, he's never felt so good.

 

[Ripper]

GW1516 is not an ESA & doesn't influence hematological values at all. It's PPAR agonist/modulator that improves metabolism & fat oxidation. It was touted as "excercise in a pill" that was supposed to solve the obesity crisis. However, GlaxoSmithKline abandoned the project after lab animals were developing cancer during the phase 1 trials. Nonetheless, it's still popular with some dopers especially strength athletes (go figure Lol). Aicar also doesn't influence hematological values & like GW1516 influences metabolism & fat oxidation through genetic pathways.

CERA is a 3rd gen ESA. 1st gen is Epogen/Procrit, 2nd gen is Darbopoetin (Aranesp). CERA is popular with dopers because of the injection frequency. Only 1-2 injections per month to reach target Hct levels vs 2-3 injections per week for Epogen & 1 per week for Nesp.

Another popular ESA is FG-4592 (Roxadustat) which is a HIF (hypoxia-inducible factor). It was developed as an anti-anemia drug for renal failure & CKD patients. Research also shows it reduces oxidative stress & inflammation. It is administered in oral form - the only ESA that doesn't need to be injected (dopers refer to it as "oxygen in a pill"). And dopers were already on top of this using the drug years before it was even FDA-approved! There have been several endurance athletes testing positive for FG-4592 including a few cyclists. If it wasn't for a test developed, FG-4592 would be a doper's dream. Lol.

Exogenous testosterone was shown in a study to increase hematological values in a dose-dependant manner but primarily in older men over 60 with low-T levels (~10%) vs younger men 19-35 yrs old with normal T levels (~5%).

Microdosing EPO is still undetectable & doesn't trigger the ABP hematological markers. And small blood transfusions done within the upper & lower parameters of the ABP also wouldn't trigger a red flag. And according to a recent study, small amounts of blood transfusions can produce significant gains in endurance performance.

IMO, it's still O2-Vector doping they're pursuing to get that edge. And if you look at the distance running side of things, WADA is seeing a significant number of EPO positives & ABP hematological-anomalies cases - some with top elites.

A Drug Hits Cycling Before It Hits the Market (Published 2015)

FG-4592, which increases production of red blood cells, is not approved for human consumption but nonetheless has led to two positive tests just this month.

www.nytimes.com

Small Amount of Blood Doping: Large Impact. - PCC - Global Anti-Doping Research Grants for Scientists and Researchers

New data from a PCC funded study from the Department of Nutrition, Exercise and Sports at the University of Copenhagen reveals that a small blood transfusion of only 135 ml of red blood cells can improve performance in cycling and other [...]

cleancompetition.org

Excellent post.

So true that really is effective to just have a little of this and a little of that.

 

[Rob5091]

Interesting comment to this article -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/if-jonas-vingegaard-can-win-the-tour-de-france-again-this-year-i-dont-understand-anything-bernard-hinault-doesnt-hold-much-hope-for-visma-leader
Comment by 1000+3075
Other substances that the ITA suspect riders are using are: RAD-140 (Testolone), YK-11, LGD-4033 (Ligandrol), SR9009 (Stenabolic), MK-677 (Ibutamoren), DSIP (Delta Sleep-Inducing Peptide), BPC-157, HGH Fragment 176-191, Epicatechin and Andarine (S4).
(DSIP? Was that Piccolo's sleepy time drug?)

 

[Mayomaniac]

Mk677 is hgh for poor people. Increases appetite (binds to ghrelin receptors) and has the potential to make you gain lots of water weight of you have a high carb intake and/or have a bit too much sodium in your diet.

All that stuff is pretty cheap, low level gymbro stuff, not what you'd expect a pro to use.

 

[Nomad]

Interesting comment to this article -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling/if-jonas-vingegaard-can-win-the-tour-de-france-again-this-year-i-dont-understand-anything-bernard-hinault-doesnt-hold-much-hope-for-visma-leader
Comment by 1000+3075
Other substances that the ITA suspect riders are using are: RAD-140 (Testolone), YK-11, LGD-4033 (Ligandrol), SR9009 (Stenabolic), MK-677 (Ibutamoren), DSIP (Delta Sleep-Inducing Peptide), BPC-157, HGH Fragment 176-191, Epicatechin and Andarine (S4).
(DSIP? Was that Piccolo's sleepy time drug?)

The comment by 1000+3075 lists "AICAR, GW1516, TP500, GAS6" as all "undetectable." That's false as WADA has the capability of testing for all of those compounds. In fact, GW1516 can be detected up to 40 days after a single oral dose of 15 mg:

Detection of PPARδ agonists GW1516 and GW0742 and their metabolites in human urine - PubMed

Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-δ (PPARδ) agonists are the drug candidates with potential performance-enhancing properties, and therefore their illegitimate use in sports should be controlled. To simulate the metabolism of PPARδ agonist GW0742, in vitro reactions were performed which...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Furthermore, U20 100m WR holder & Texas AM track star Issam Asinga tested postive last month for GW1516 - so it doesn't sound very undetectable. Lol

Here's USADA's sanctioned list - a good number of positives for the various SARMs products including Mk677:

Sanctions - Anti-Doping Violations | U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)

A list of all anti-doping rule violations / sanctions issued by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) in its history. Includes athlete & coach sanctions.

www.usada.org

 

[Ripper]

The comment by 1000+3075 lists "AICAR, GW1516, TP500, GAS6" as all "undetectable." That's false as WADA has the capability of testing for all of those compounds. In fact, GW1516 can be detected up to 40 days after a single oral dose of 15 mg:

Detection of PPARδ agonists GW1516 and GW0742 and their metabolites in human urine - PubMed

Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-δ (PPARδ) agonists are the drug candidates with potential performance-enhancing properties, and therefore their illegitimate use in sports should be controlled. To simulate the metabolism of PPARδ agonist GW0742, in vitro reactions were performed which...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Furthermore, U20 100m WR holder & Texas AM track star Issam Asinga tested postive last month for GW1516 - so it doesn't sound very undetectable. Lol

Here's USADA's sanctioned list - a good number of positives for the various SARMs products including Mk677:

Sanctions - Anti-Doping Violations | U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA)

A list of all anti-doping rule violations / sanctions issued by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) in its history. Includes athlete & coach sanctions.

www.usada.org

The back and forth between commenters steel frame and Mistermaumau (LOL!!!!) are entertaining

 

[wansteadimp]

Mk677 is hgh for poor people. Increases appetite (binds to ghrelin receptors) and has the potential to make you gain lots of water weight of you have a high carb intake and/or have a bit too much sodium in your diet.

All that stuff is pretty cheap, low level gymbro stuff, not what you'd expect a pro to use.

You mean like what happen to a certain Ineos rider in the Giro? And another in the 2023 Tour?

 

[Rob5091]

The back and forth between commenters steel frame and Mistermaumau (LOL!!!!) are entertaining

You should read the comments after the article about Pogi doping ...

 

[Ripper]

You should read the comments after the article about Pogi doping ...

I have. No comment on the comments

 

[Mayomaniac]

So, what is going on with FDJ? Gaudu and Lenny Martinez were climbing like sprinters on the first 2 stages.

 

[Rob5091]

San Luca climb on Sunday a new record speed (yeah, I know, tailwind, nutrition, Remco's aeroskin etc)
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...na-di-san-luca-during-tour-de-france-showdown
Team Visma | Lease a Bike entered the climb at full speed well positioned but Adam Yates quickly hit the front, smashing the group to less than a dozen riders before Tadej Pogacar launched a furious attack right after its steepest section. The Slovenian went all-out into the summit of the climb but was closely followed by Jonas Vingegaard. Roglic's previous record was of 5:22 minutes but the duo rode up it this Sunday in only 5:06 minutes. This is confirmed by the Strava segment of the climb, showing Pogacar's big difference in relation to all other times.

However four riders beat the previous record at least, as both Remco Evenepoel and Richard Carapaz climbed it in 5:17. According to CyclingGraphs, the front duo rode the 5-minute ascent with a power output of 7.89W/Kg ...

Which was n't bad considering it was n't "fullgas" - https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...e-2-attack-at-tour-de-france-was-not-full-gas
Whilst Pogacar was unable to gap his main rival and saw the duo of Remco Evenepoel and Richard Carapaz regain contact by the finish line, UAE Team Emirates' team boss Joxean Matxin is not concerned, insisting the Pogacar's move was far from full gas from the Slovenian. "The intention was to test all the rivals to understand the level of the different riders," explains Matxin in conversation with Cyclism'Actu.