State of the Peloton 2025

[Samu Cuenca]

You're confusing Mayo with Mauro Gianetti. Understandable but from my understanding they are two very different people.

Looking at present day Mayo, you could possibly be excused for being confused.

 

[Rob5091]

So how long before the UCI sends out a "time to slow it down" message to the teams?

 

[Ripper]

I wonder why Jonas doesn't upload on strava? Likely the team directive right?

It could be that he just doesn't use the app. I know a number of racers who don't bother with that one

 

[Ripper]

Pogacar's 2023-2024 improvement is nothing compared to the improvement Froomie made in about a week in 2011.

What Froome very much demonstrated was that if you come up with a somewhat plausible explanation, even if it's pretty darn unlikely, people will suspend belief and buy into it.

We keep on seeing these pretty weak explanations that supposedly support such total transformations. Bilharzia! A change in trainers!

 

[Ripper]

This really belongs here

Wiggins/Froome/Sky era is not even close to what we are seeing. Sky's level is way overestimated IMO. Of course conditions and race day tactics matter but I always look at Alpe D'Huez climbing times as a general guide to compare eras:

• When Sky launched Geraint Thomas to win on the Alpe in 2018 it took 41 minutes to climb that mountain.
• In 2022 Thomas finished with Pogacar and Vingegaard in 39 minutes.
• After 2024 PdB who would bet against Pog and Vingo demolishing Marco's record of 36'40"?

I mean, when you look at this all in hindsight, and toss any motor related strangeness, in general the Sky years were basically what you look like with massive TUE abuse and potentially a bit of extra dabbling. It is what closer racing looks like across the board. Times are tight and you can only get a bit above to get ahead.

Froome's monthfirmation transformation is another thing, but whatever; even at his best he would get dusted completely now.

 

[Ripper]

Looking at present day Mayo, you could possibly be excused for being confused.

In general, I agree. But Gianetti is more true vampire. Mayo looks more like friendly and silly part vampire

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

The pundits of the French speaking Belgian television (former pro Cyril Saugrain being among them) are beginning to seems quite fed up with Politt. "Politt managing the gap and the GC group again" "He's a big guy Politt," "Yeah, about two Lenny Martinez, i don't understand" "Some riders crack and others seems to never crack" "This is vintage Hincapie".

 

[CleanCiclismo]

Lenny Martinez and Thymen Arensman set a NEW CLIMBING RECORD on Col de Glandon: 51 min 10 sec. They were faster than Contador in 2017. The Festina team attack was 1:30 slower in 1997

https://twitter.com/x/status/1948356213990736027

View: https://x.com/faustocoppi60/status/1948356213990736027

 

[meat puppet]

In today's stage thread someone posted a a table charting overall avg speed of 45+kmh for this year. Which is some 2-3kmh faster than any other edition.

Was the table real or for the lulz? I know it's been fast but that would be quite a bump.

 

[Rob5091]

In today's stage thread someone posted a a table charting overall avg speed of 45+kmh for this year. Which is some 2-3kmh faster than any other edition.

Was the table real or for the lulz? I know it's been fast but that would be quite a bump.

According to -
https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2025/results/average-speed-per-stage
42.874 km/h average after stage 20

 

[ashhutch1997]

Don't worry guys, David Millar said that everyone in the Tour de France is clean this year.

 

[b0ydman]

We have no evidence of dirty stuff, other than bald timing facts and wattages and comparisons to the times of known juicers. But we have no proof

So at this moment in time all these pages in the clinic are just subjective finger pointing.

But you know what, in the last 40 years pretty well EVERY time we saw something that was unreal, we found out later that no, it wasn't real.

All those pages in the clinic (or equivalent of the day) were also just subjective finger pointing, but they were right and the truth was essentially in there.

I have no doubt we are witnessing the same, once again, and that we eventually will be proven right, once again. The urge to win is no less today than it was in the past

While we may be wrong in specific observations and speculations: batteries, engines, CO, TUEs etc, the fact always was that yes Dorothy, they were doping.

One would have to be incredibly naïve to believe that this is all bread and water, and the balance of probabilities is that too many riders ARE doping.

The 3 key questions are

1) Are they the winning riders, and
2) What is the process/ technology they are currently using? (is it new/ advanced, biological or motorised)
3) How much is the pro cycling system protecting it this time around?

Pro cycling is hard to watch. Even when I can celebrate a lesser team stage win I am sad because I'm still skeptical.

Too old and cynical - seen this all before, too many times

 

[Rob5091]

Don't worry guys, David Millar said that everyone in the Tour de France is clean this year.

Well, I'm glad he cleared that up for us, but why did he say it? Who asked if there was guys who might be racing on more then bread and water?

 

[Rob5091]

Nairoman just can't catch a break

Soupçons de dopage : le médecin de Nairo Quintna sera jugé en septembre

Le médecin de Nairo Quintana sera jugé en septembre prochain à Marseille. Fredy Alexander Gonzales Torres est soupçonné d’avoir dopé Nairo et Dayer Quintana, alors membres de l’équipe Arkéa-Samsic, lors du Tour de France 2020.

www.letelegramme.fr

The Arkéa-Samsic/Nairo Quintana affair? “An old story,” said, until recently, a figure in the peloton. Many players in French cycling thought that this investigation, opened after a search during the 2020 Tour de France, had yielded nothing. On the contrary. According to our information, Nairo Quintana's doctor, Fredy Alexander Gonzales Torres, will be tried on September 2, 2024, in Marseille.

Above quote from "State of the Peloton 2024"
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fo...-of-doping-substances-in-2020-tour-de-france/

Colombian doctor Fredy Alexander Gonzales Torres has received a six-month suspended prison sentence and a €15,000 fine for possession and administration of doping substances during the 2020 Tour de France.

Gonzales Torres was not present in the Marseille court for the verdict, remaining in Colombia for the month-long trial. His lawyer has already confirmed he will appeal the sentence.

The Colombian acted as doctor for Nairo Quintana and his brother Dayer during the 2020 Tour France, as well as being a stand-in for the Arkéa-Samsic squad in the race after their usual doctor had fallen ill with COVID-19. ...Gonzales Torres was accused of possessing an intravenous drip during that year's Tour, discovered by police when they searched his room at one of the hotels used by the team on the COVID-delayed race that year.

So was this old fashioned IV recovery, which fell foul of the "no needles" ruling which nearly got Wiggins? Strange that no doping substances were found (or something on WADA's list?) only "vitamins" according to Nairoman, which sounds like IV recovery.
(UCI's no needles ruling news at
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-approves-no-needle-policy/)

 

[Rob5091]

Close the clinic! It's all down to jersey colour ....
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...cling-impact-jersey-helmet-bottle-color-heat/

Temperature Testing: Was Vingegaard at a Disadvantage to Pogačar at the Tour Because of His Jersey Color?​

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Close the clinic! It's all down to jersey colour ....
https://velo.outsideonline.com/road...cling-impact-jersey-helmet-bottle-color-heat/

Must have really cost him when he was in the Polka dots and Pogačar in yellow while the weather was cold and rainy.

 

[Rob5091]

It took 5 years for Naiorman's doctor to get busted, so we might see something next year about the poilce raids on Bahrain (going from the time dealy).

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I don't demand too much regarding our heroes' cleanliness: I just hope it's all 100% muscle propulsion.

 

[Rob5091]

Some interesting tit-bits from Tudor's Storer -
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...ogacar-and-uaes-tactics-at-the-tour-de-france

Modern breakaways, Storer said, are nothing like what they used to be. “The 10-minute breakaways are finished. It’s all about forcing the breakaway now. The peloton doesn’t let you go, they have to be broken. That makes the racing extremely hard.”

Whilst this is true for days when a break might make it to the finish, if it's going to be a bunch sprint, then no one goes now (or only a couple of guys who get like 3 minutes max)

One topic Storer found particularly ridiculous? Watches in racing. “I’m totally fine with not wearing a Richard Mille on the cobbles. Cyclists are so focused on aerodynamics, then wear watches with drag. It makes no sense.”
He also dismissed overhyped recovery hacks. “There’s no magic cherry juice potion that’s going to fix your recovery. Maybe it’s 0.1% of your recovery. If I was an amateur, I wouldn’t be buying cherry juice.”

Yeah, get the latest aero socks then strap on a sponsors clunky watch, and of course the overhyped cherry juice in a box drink, which was a great marketing ploy by whoever thought it up.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

So is this what they get up to at the so called "altitude training" (or as they will now be known, “astral journeys”) camps in Spain, huh?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/aug/11/ayahuasca-toad-poison-seized-spiritual-retreats-spain

"945 Ritalin tablets", that's a lot of people with ADHD.

Funny, but this has as much to do with cycling as I have with Pogačar.

 

[Rob5091]

Funny, but this has as much to do with cycling as I have with Pogačar.

True, but extremely funny - "astral journeys, you'll believe you can fly!" should be the motto. (moved to non-cycling threads)

 

[Rob5091]

With the Vuelta nearly apon us, a trip down a Spanish memory lane with some familiar names- from 2008
https://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2008/07/20/ciclismo/1216585126.html

Spanish doctor Marcos Maynar, accused by German television of offering his services to professional cycling teams to help hide doped riders, strongly denied the allegation. "It's just the opposite," he says. ...The German broadcaster ARD denounced on Saturday, during the broadcast of the 14th stage of the Tour, that "in an e-mail sent to more than 10 professional cycling teams, which is in the possession of the ARD, the University of Extremadura, in Cáceres, offers to carry out through urine analysis a complete profile of steroid consumption to riders", as reported by the German agency DPA. German expert Hans Geyer, from the Center for Doping Prevention Research, based in Cologne, said on the ARD program that he suspected that there was a service like the one allegedly offered by Maynar. The ARD quoted the reaction of the director general of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), David Howman: "The alleged practices that you describe are worrying." WADA, Howman added, will send the information to the Spanish authorities.

The 4 pro teams on the e-mail list?
https://es-academic.com/dic.nsf/eswiki/774295#Acusaciones_desde_Alemania

Milram, Columbia-High Road, CSC-Saxo Bank and Gerolsteiner

Of course what is better then one doping doctor? Two! With some more familiar names and teams -
https://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2008/07/19/ciclismo/1216494510.html

The other Spanish doctor who comes to light is Jesús Losa, the sports doctor who was carrying Moisés Dueñas. The Barloworld cyclist would have declared to the judge of Tarbes, according to press reports, that the doping products he had in his suitcase had been given to him by this doctor, with a consultation in Valladolid.

Losa rejected the accusation this Saturday on the microphones of 'Onda Cero'. "Dueñas was and is my client, but I have only helped him in matters of dietetics and training. I don't know why he should accuse me. If it is true that he accuses me, I am at the disposal of the French authorities to come and testify."

This doctor is also well known in the cycling environment. He was the head of the Euskaltel Euskadi team until he was fired in 2004. The cause, another confession. After the arrest of the Scotsman David Millar in Biarritz, who was found by the police with doses of EPO at his home, he declared that Losa had given them to him, admitted to having doped at the peak of his career and paid with a two-year doping suspension.

Of course Millar was having dinner with that paragon of clean racing, Sir Dave, and Barloworld had a promising guy called Froome in 2008.
It all does not prove anything except that if a cyclist wants to dope, there's a doctor out there willing to help.

 

[Izzyeviel]

They're now talking about broccoli juice being the next thing.

Please let the next thing after that be spinach. The memes would be so great.

 

[Rob5091]

All over Denmark, parents will be telling their kids, eat your broccoli so you'll be big and strong like big Mads ...
https://www.cyclingnews.com/feature...cycling-juice-supplement-improve-performance/

 

[Mayomaniac]

Hearing about Gaviria potentially retiring after this season, one has to point out that his decline started after his sister's husband (track cyclist, like his sister) tested positive in 2018 and got banned for 4 years in 2019...