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Statement by Floyd Landis

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Jul 25, 2010
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Hmmmmm said:
What a sad world you live in. So, recovering addicts and alcoholics should not be working in helping with rehabilitation? If they lied, cheated, and stole they should fess up, work with the authorities, and then just go away quietly? So change should only come from people who were not involved in the wrongdoing in the first place? How the hell is change going to take place? Some of our wisest, smartest, most contributing members of society led less than stellar lives (according to the less than stellar life guage ;) ) before stepping up to the plate and for some reason or another allowing themselves to change and lead a different lifestyle.

You are absolutely right - let them contribute to society in a meaningful and impactful way - just not in cycling. Take many of the insider trading cases for example (or a lot of other professions for that matter) - if you engage in securities fraud, you are often barred from that profession for life. There are lots of meaningful ways to contribute to society - but you have lost the privilege of being a legitimate voice or influence in cycling in the long term. Giving them legitimacy is a continued insult to those of us who never gave in to their "lifestyle". Nothing short of that will clean up cycling and sport in general.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Of course Floyld and Joe have personal reasons for going turncoat. It is psychologically unreasonable to expect them to be motivated otherwise.

Any system that regulates behaviour, such as Omerta, is only effective if it's consistent and reciprocal. Joe and Floyld played by the dismal rules of the game and lost everything. This makes doping doubly unfair: the fans and some of the players are duped.

It is hoped, however, they also have 'big picture' values now in that they want the sport they dedicated their young adulthoods to to be clean. It would be great if no one in the (near) future will have to gamble their careers, consciences or lives to compete.

And this is why we want them to keep talking: their motivations are irrelevent; it's great if we can get a clean sport from their confessions. They're not doing anything wrong. Telling the truth is always good. A cheater who starts telling the truth is better than an unrepetent liar, and much braver and more humble to boot. Only the conceited are proud of their record of consistent deceit.

Never underestimate the rage of the convert when it comes to effecting change. Saul of Tarsus was a Christian-hunter until his conversion. His legacy: the Catholic Church.

Personally, I'd just prefer a clean sport!

* With regards to any money Floyld may or may not get out of the whistleblower suit, I hope he redistributes some to the people who subsidised his old defence (by way of receipts, the return of a nominated page from his book, etc.) or an equivalent donation to a worthy charity.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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The SBS Australia cycling pundit, David Mackenzie, a onetime pro and stage winner in the 2000 Giro, a couple of hours ago after the Vuelta stage to Bola del Mundo, had this to say about Floyd's trip to Melbourne:

"He's allowed to say what he wants, but I think he has an agenda. He times his announcements to coincide with major races. He lied once so why should we believe him? I just think he has an agenda. He shouldn't be allowed to come. Cycling belongs to the people and we don't want any negative publicity."

Make of that what you will.
 
"we don't want any negative publicity."

Says it all really. Just the usual sweeping under the carpet attitude, entrenching the positions of the winning dopers even more.

Can't the fanboys see that this is nothing to do with Floyd himself? We just want the information out of him!

THEY want it all hidden away and business as usual. Fanboys love doping, and that;s the truth.
 
May 26, 2010
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CycloErgoSum said:
The SBS Australia cycling pundit, David Mackenzie, a onetime pro and stage winner in the 2000 Giro, a couple of hours ago after the Vuelta stage to Bola del Mundo, had this to say about Floyd's trip to Melbourne:

"He's allowed to say what he wants, but I think he has an agenda. He times his announcements to coincide with major races. He lied once so why should we believe him? I just think he has an agenda. He shouldn't be allowed to come. Cycling belongs to the people and we don't want any negative publicity."

Make of that what you will.

support for the Omerta. Did he mention he is glad that doping is finally being treated with the seriousness it deserves. Does he mention anything apart from an LA mouth piece, ie ' an agenda'......MacKenzie Omerta player!
 
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creeve said:
So the enemy of my enemy is my friend? That's a dangerous game to play.

If you took a minute to actually read my post (but I guess you were too busy looking for cool monkey pictures), you'd see I don't suggest anywhere that Landis/Papp shouldn't be "used" - but to give them any further credibility (or legitimate forums to further their narcissistic aims), is a distraction. "Use" them to bring down others but that you can't see that both have their own agendas is sad. They aren't reformed or seeking redemption. They are both bitter - one is going to jail (I hope) and the other continues to be a fraud - but both are clearly looking for attention. We shouldn't let them have any future or voice in this sport - they don't deserve it.

Chacma+Baboon+1.JPG
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
support for the Omerta. Did he mention he is glad that doping is finally being treated with the seriousness it deserves. Does he mention anything apart from an LA mouth piece, ie ' an agenda'......MacKenzie Omerta player!

Nope, he didn't mention doping or clean cycling at all. He just 'played the man.'

It was actually heartening to see the normally 'slow on the uptake' Mike Tomalaris give the slightest of creedence to the whole affair. He didn't say much, and I can't recall exactly what he said either, but he didn't view the matter as simple-minded and as partisan as is normally the case. He was remarkably subdued.

Tomalaris was the one who brought it up, too. Either he's interested like the journalist he apparently, almost inconceivably, is, or he used dopey as his mouthpiece. I guess he's learnt something about staying power.
 
Apr 7, 2010
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theswordsman said:
Did you bother to read the statement? Or the pre-Tour New York Times article where Ashenden and Catlin said that Landis had totally opened their eyes as to how riders are using microdoses of EPO during races to get their blood values within limits after a blood transfusion? His information already helped towards making the sport cleaner. So why shouldn't he sit at a table on a college campus and offer a perspective that others there can't have?

Because he's already told what he knows. Any scientist can now repeat it as a matter of research. There is no reason to make a celebrity out of him.

We've discussed this before, but the reason doping continues is because the up side is so high and the down side is a 2 year suspension.

And (if you make a celebrity out of Floyd Landis or Papp for that matter) even the downside has benefits. You do the speaking tour and write a tell-all book.

Why not dope? Either you get away with it, or you get caught then do the speaking tour with idiots cheering you on for "doing the right thing."
 
May 26, 2010
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creeve said:
You are absolutely right - let them contribute to society in a meaningful and impactful way - just not in cycling. Take many of the insider trading cases for example (or a lot of other professions for that matter) - if you engage in securities fraud, you are often barred from that profession for life. There are lots of meaningful ways to contribute to society - but you have lost the privilege of being a legitimate voice or influence in cycling in the long term. Giving them legitimacy is a continued insult to those of us who never gave in to their "lifestyle". Nothing short of that will clean up cycling and sport in general.

surely in order to understand doping in sport one must hear a voice of experience, ie a doper.

to cut out doping in sport is a difficult job, but listening to those who have experience in perpetrating the doping may go some way to preventing or at least making it more difficult.

one of the sad things about sport is the previous successful winning dopers become the next generation director sportifs or possibly worse, running the races that allow doping to flourish...

plenty of cyclists have been caught said they were sorry took the 2 years kept their mouth shut and came back to where they were before, doping. rather have Floyd blow the system out of the water then guys back doping after they got caught.

you think Vino, Ricco, Basso and others are back as clean athletes winning again? Nah give me Floyd warts and all then Ricco any day.
 
Jul 25, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
surely in order to understand doping in sport one must hear a voice of experience, ie a doper.

to cut out doping in sport is a difficult job, but listening to those who have experience in perpetrating the doping may go some way to preventing or at least making it more difficult.

one of the sad things about sport is the previous successful winning dopers become the next generation director sportifs or possibly worse, running the races that allow doping to flourish...

plenty of cyclists have been caught said they were sorry took the 2 years kept their mouth shut and came back to where they were before, doping. rather have Floyd blow the system out of the water then guys back doping after they got caught.

you think Vino, Ricco, Basso and others are back as clean athletes winning again? Nah give me Floyd warts and all then Ricco any day.

I don't know if they are back clean or not - only that they shouldn't be back in the first place. I don't think Floyd, Papp, Vino, Ricco, Basso, etc. have anything to contribute in the long term. If they want to confess, great but then go find a job in another profession. But the thing is, none of them actually came forward and confessed. They were caught and lied. Some of them played the game, took their 2 years and came back - they should have been banned for life. Floyd feels cheated that he played the same game and wasn't allowed back in the "club". We should thank Floyd for his admissions and wish him well in whatever he chooses to pursue outside of cycling. He's lost the privilege of being considered a long-term "solution" to any problems that he was a big part of creating.
 
creeve said:
You are absolutely right - let them contribute to society in a meaningful and impactful way - just not in cycling. Take many of the insider trading cases for example (or a lot of other professions for that matter) - if you engage in securities fraud, you are often barred from that profession for life. There are lots of meaningful ways to contribute to society - but you have lost the privilege of being a legitimate voice or influence in cycling in the long term. Giving them legitimacy is a continued insult to those of us who never gave in to their "lifestyle". Nothing short of that will clean up cycling and sport in general.

Ok so let's make Lance Armstrong a legitimate voice for cycling...it's been that way for years anyway. Just as it was for Enron at Wall Street. :rolleyes:
 
Sep 17, 2010
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We can be cynical, or we can believe that redemption is possible in life. He grew up a Mennonite, and even if one no longer practices the faith of one's childhood, the ethical lessons remain, and grow stronger with time. If having to lie to your own mother over a screwup of worlwide significance might not be enough, certainly the suicide of one's father-in-law (and best friend) might be enough to give one pause.
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/columns/story?columnist=ford_bonnie_d&id=5215959
 
May 26, 2010
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creeve said:
I don't know if they are back clean or not - only that they shouldn't be back in the first place. I don't think Floyd, Papp, Vino, Ricco, Basso, etc. have anything to contribute in the long term. If they want to confess, great but then go find a job in another profession. But the thing is, none of them actually came forward and confessed. They were caught and lied. Some of them played the game, took their 2 years and came back - they should have been banned for life. Floyd feels cheated that he played the same game and wasn't allowed back in the "club". We should thank Floyd for his admissions and wish him well in whatever he chooses to pursue outside of cycling. He's lost the privilege of being considered a long-term "solution" to any problems that he was a big part of creating.

since the users and dealers are the most experienced in terms of performance enhancing drug use, how does one find a solution if they are excluded when thy offer themselves to be part of assisting in cleaning up a sport?

Floyd did not create the problem, the problem already existed, he played along as do they all? if you want to solve that problem well these guys are part of the problem so they invariably have to be part of the solution and better to do it while they are still pros rather than 10 years retired like Bjarne Riis, whose long known mr 60% 'revelation' changed nothing!

i'd rather a guy like Floyd was part of a solution then not. I don't see a Ricco or worse LA attitude from Floyd.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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Road Hazard said:
Because he's already told what he knows. Any scientist can now repeat it as a matter of research. There is no reason to make a celebrity out of him.

We've discussed this before, but the reason doping continues is because the up side is so high and the down side is a 2 year suspension.

And (if you make a celebrity out of Floyd Landis or Papp for that matter) even the downside has benefits. You do the speaking tour and write a tell-all book.

Why not dope? Either you get away with it, or you get caught then do the speaking tour with idiots cheering you on for "doing the right thing."
You forgot option C - you can return to the sport as a DS of a ProTour team or become a commentator.

Quite simply - shutting up pays, speaking out doesn't, as you will never get to work in cycling again.


How much has Floyd banked since his admission??
If Floyd was cashing in on his "celebrity" why go to a doping conference in Australia when he could do the lucrative TV circuit?

And no - the reason doping continues is that very few get caught and in particular through actual testing. 5 years, 10 years - it doesn't matter what the sanction is - only knowing that you are likely to get caught will act as a deterent.
 
CycloErgoSum said:
The SBS Australia cycling pundit, David Mackenzie, a onetime pro and stage winner in the 2000 Giro, a couple of hours ago after the Vuelta stage to Bola del Mundo, had this to say about Floyd's trip to Melbourne:

"He's allowed to say what he wants, but I think he has an agenda. He times his announcements to coincide with major races. He lied once so why should we believe him? I just think he has an agenda. He shouldn't be allowed to come. Cycling belongs to the people and we don't want any negative publicity."

Make of that what you will.

Poor Dave, he managed to get "Agenda" in but missed the most important one of all: "Credibility".
 
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Bike Opera said:
I just snorted beer out on my keyboard. Thanks for cracking me up in rainy pnw with all the shrill monkey pixs. You are hilarious!

20100720_BatMonkey.png
 
Aug 13, 2009
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creeve said:
You are absolutely right - let them contribute to society in a meaningful and impactful way - just not in cycling. Take many of the insider trading cases for example (or a lot of other professions for that matter) - if you engage in securities fraud, you are often barred from that profession for life. There are lots of meaningful ways to contribute to society - but you have lost the privilege of being a legitimate voice or influence in cycling in the long term. Giving them legitimacy is a continued insult to those of us who never gave in to their "lifestyle". Nothing short of that will clean up cycling and sport in general.

Your analogy is wrong. It is quite common for former financial criminals to have post conviction careers advising companies how to avoid people like them.

Funny how those who cry about Witch hunts love to hunt witches.......
 
Feb 14, 2010
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I just got up, and hit up Google News to look for updates on things. I followed the story about Worlds organizers (released by Jump Media) the other day as it spread across the world in all kinds of languages, often using disparaging terms to describe Floyd in the title. It was everywhere.

I just checked to see how many articles there are about the statement. Three. There's possibly a fourth, but it's in a foreign language, and Google told me it's an attack site. I imagine there will be people who follow the sports sections in their local papers who think that the organizers got their way and that Landis won't participate.

Anyone who said Landis is attending the conference for publicity either has an agenda of their own or needs a reality check on what kind of publicity news about him generates.

There are a lot of people working to clean up the sport right now. Until the last few days, I had no clue as to the extent. And with the pressure coming in from a lot of different sources, it makes sense that there's anger and resistance. But from fans? It's almost the off season, and a lot can happen before the 2011 races begin.

I applaud everyone who's working to make things better, from the college professor in Australia, to the anti-doping doctors, to the investigators, and yes, to former cheats who want to make the sport a better place for the next generation.
 
Thanks

swordsman - I don't think I've told you lately how much I appreciate your informative posts. You are a great, objective source of info. Thanks for taking the time to help us all stay better informed...
 

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