Steven Kruijswijk

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Lol at asterisks. Really, you can't beat who's not there, and you can't beat riders in top form when they're crap. Seriously. This should be asterisk'd because Landa crashed out?? Landa, the guy who got one GT podium prior to that, whilst Kruijswijk is beating riders who have won GTs and even Nibali, who's won them all?

It's utter horsecrap. You know that too, but your favourite rider crashed out/isn't there/is crap so a rider you don't like wins. boo **** hoo

Contador-fans aren't slow to question the legitimacy behind Nibali's 2014 Tour

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

In all fairness, it's ok to be frustrated when your rider falls our for a stupid reason. and that you start speculating.

Imagine Kwibus, if Kruiswuijk dropped out last thursday with a crash. How would you feel? It's completely normal and human to have these emotions. You just can't help yourself

Yeah but then we can asterisk Nibali's GT wins as well. What if Anton didn't fall in that Vuelta. What if all the favorites didn't fall in that Tour where **** Peraud finished 2nd

Well Nibali's GT wins are asterisked.

He's failed in this Giro despite Landa dropping out, couldn't beat a 42 year old in the Vuelta when he was very near top form (if he wasn't totally in top form), lost 3 mins to Froome at the Tour whilst towing Brad around France and let's not get started on the 2011 Vuelta

For these reasons, I will never consider Nibali to have been a truly exceptional rider, even though his palmares would show that he's one of 22 riders in history to win 3 or more GTs, one of 6 to win each grand tour and a monument winner to boot

Yeah, I feel the same way about Merckx. I mean, there was that time when he couldn't even finish ahead of Galdos in the Tour de France. And he once lost nearly three minutes to Tevenet. Let's not get started on the 1976 Giro.

Sure, his palmares is the best ever and he's won everything in the sport multiple times, but there were a couple of times when he disappointed, so not an exceptional rider for me.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Lol at asterisks. Really, you can't beat who's not there, and you can't beat riders in top form when they're crap. Seriously. This should be asterisk'd because Landa crashed out?? Landa, the guy who got one GT podium prior to that, whilst Kruijswijk is beating riders who have won GTs and even Nibali, who's won them all?

It's utter horsecrap. You know that too, but your favourite rider crashed out/isn't there/is crap so a rider you don't like wins. boo **** hoo

Contador-fans aren't slow to question the legitimacy behind Nibali's 2014 Tour

Well I'm not, and never have. And this the kind of subjective crap that brings is nowhere. We don't like what happens, so we make up some subjective zebra turd to discredit it so we can whine about it. If you're gonna whine about it, whine with a good *** argument.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Lol at asterisks. Really, you can't beat who's not there, and you can't beat riders in top form when they're crap. Seriously. This should be asterisk'd because Landa crashed out?? Landa, the guy who got one GT podium prior to that, whilst Kruijswijk is beating riders who have won GTs and even Nibali, who's won them all?

It's utter horsecrap. You know that too, but your favourite rider crashed out/isn't there/is crap so a rider you don't like wins. boo **** hoo

Contador-fans aren't slow to question the legitimacy behind Nibali's 2014 Tour

Well I'm not, and never have. And this the kind of subjective crap that brings is nowhere. We don't like what happens, so we make up some subjective zebra turd to discredit it so we can whine about it. If you're gonna whine about it, whine with a good **** argument.

I have not asterisked anything Kruijswijk has done, calm. Haven't said that Landa would win, he would have had a very hard time, no doubt. I just tried to say its only natural, on a forum this big, to have some people questioning what might have happened and such. Its normal

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Lol at asterisks. Really, you can't beat who's not there, and you can't beat riders in top form when they're crap. Seriously. This should be asterisk'd because Landa crashed out?? Landa, the guy who got one GT podium prior to that, whilst Kruijswijk is beating riders who have won GTs and even Nibali, who's won them all?

It's utter horsecrap. You know that too, but your favourite rider crashed out/isn't there/is crap so a rider you don't like wins. boo **** hoo

+100

I used to particpate in these discussions about " yeah, but if rider x didn't blabla" until I realised how futile and pointless theyare.

Tdf 2014 was a disaster when first Froome and the Contador crashing out and thinking of it I'm still really dissapointed that it never became the battle it was supposed to be. Despite their crash I'm not going to say " what if they didn't crash thenNobali wouldn't have bla bla"
Nibali won it fair and square.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Lol at asterisks. Really, you can't beat who's not there, and you can't beat riders in top form when they're crap. Seriously. This should be asterisk'd because Landa crashed out?? Landa, the guy who got one GT podium prior to that, whilst Kruijswijk is beating riders who have won GTs and even Nibali, who's won them all?

It's utter horsecrap. You know that too, but your favourite rider crashed out/isn't there/is crap so a rider you don't like wins. boo **** hoo

Contador-fans aren't slow to question the legitimacy behind Nibali's 2014 Tour

Well I'm not, and never have. And this the kind of subjective crap that brings is nowhere. We don't like what happens, so we make up some subjective zebra turd to discredit it so we can whine about it. If you're gonna whine about it, whine with a good **** argument.

I have not asterisked anything Kruijswijk has done, calm. Haven't said that Landa would win, he would have had a very hard time, no doubt. I just tried to say its only natural, on a forum this big, to have some people questioning what might have happened and such. Its normal

Ofcourse, but it's still pointless.

 

[Valv.Piti]

It might me pointless to you, but not to others. Folks are passionated, again using the 2014 Contador-argument here, and are very quick to point out that 'if not x rider crashed out he would've smoked y rider'.

We will never know. All we know is that Landa was the best climber in the last week, better than Kruijswijk, but Kruijswijk looked better in the Giro 2016. So chances are he would've won regardless.

 

[classicomano]

You people better stop talking *** about my Dutch hero. And all this asteriks *** ends now, understand?

 

[Miburo]

There's a difference though with Landa who showed weakness in the first week of the giro and still needed to confirm his performance in this years giro and Contador who was by far the best rider in 2014 and crushed everyone in his sight.

I'm just saying, 2 completely different situations of the asterisk debate

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

There's a difference though with Landa who showed weakness in the first week of the giro and still needed to confirm his performance in this years giro and Contador who was by far the best rider in 2014 and crushed everyone in his sight.

I'm just saying, 2 completely different situations of the asterisk debate

I get what you are saying and thats a good point, but fundamentally, there isn't a difference. Someone crashed out and people are questioning if he would've done the same if that rider had been present.

 

[Red Rick]

Right. There's a massive difference between,

A rider may have won a race had he not gotten sick or crashed out

AND

A rider's victory should be asterisk'd (ergo, should be valued less) because someone else crashed or got sick.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Lol at asterisks. Really, you can't beat who's not there, and you can't beat riders in top form when they're crap. Seriously. This should be asterisk'd because Landa crashed out?? Landa, the guy who got one GT podium prior to that, whilst Kruijswijk is beating riders who have won GTs and even Nibali, who's won them all?

It's utter horsecrap. You know that too, but your favourite rider crashed out/isn't there/is crap so a rider you don't like wins. boo **** hoo

In my books, if Kruijswijk does go on to win this Giro, it won't be asterisk'd, as most of the pre-race contenders are still there, and while I think Landa would have been his biggest competitor, I'm not entirely convinced Landa would have been good enough to make up the time he lost on the flat TTs (if he'd have been able to drop the currently invincible Kruijswijk at all)

It's different when you win a GT and don't show anything before or after suggesting that you'd have beaten the missing riders, because then your palmares make you look better than you actually are

 

[staubsauger]

Kruijswijk was isolated with 70 kilometers to go on the first col of the day today and managed to turn around that situation into his favor with sheer power and awareness!

Where to put an asterix there? Landa is completely irrelevant to his performance as he looked weaker when he was still in the race on any stage bar the tt. Like I already said: What could've or maybe would've happened without his illness doesn't count that much since the exact opposite happened when he was still in the race.

I'm a Landa fan btw.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Where do you think Kruijswijk would have finished in last year's Tour with his current shape?

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Where do you think Kruijswijk would have finished in last year's Tour with his current shape?

In front of Contador likely (and in front of Gesink surely), and 100% not better than 3rd.

For me its somewhere between 'irrelevant' and 'I don't really care'

 

[del1962]

Re:

Where do you think Kruijswijk would have finished in last year's Tour with his current shape?

What is he like riding in extreme heat? Because if he has problems with that then he wouldn't have challenged

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

There's a difference though with Landa who showed weakness in the first week of the giro and still needed to confirm his performance in this years giro and Contador who was by far the best rider in 2014 and crushed everyone in his sight.

I'm just saying, 2 completely different situations of the asterisk debate

I get what you are saying and thats a good point, but fundamentally, there isn't a difference. Someone crashed out and people are questioning if he would've done the same if that rider had been present.

So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.

So why questions? If no answers?

-Kwibus, great philosopher (read: random poster) of the CN.com forum

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Where do you think Kruijswijk would have finished in last year's Tour with his current shape?

We need watts output from him and other riders.

Else it's just speculating.

I do think we shouldn't underestimate the performance he's giving. next year allready makes me incredibly curious

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.

So why questions? If no answers?

-Kwibus, great philosopher (read: random poster) of the CN.com forum

I'm almost rolling on the floor right now

 

[hrotha]

Numbers-wise it's probably nothing to write home about, but that's largely because of the kind of race the Giro is and the way it's raced. Some folks would probably beat Kruijswijk with this form at the Tour, but they might well lose to him at the Giro.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Numbers-wise it's probably nothing to write home about, but that's largely because of the kind of race the Giro is and the way it's raced. Some folks would probably beat Kruijswijk with this form at the Tour, but they might well lose to him at the Giro.

True. Steven also said he prefers the way the Giro is raced which is a lot less controlled then the TdF.

 

[Red Rick]

Both the MTT and the Valparola stage had pretty good numbers for the stages they were. Could others do better in absolute top form? Probably, but it is a short list

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Kruijswijk said the Giro suits him more because the course is more demanding and has more gruelling long steep climbs.

TDF is too much absolute monster speed climbs, almost TT climbs, perfect for Froome. Not for a diesel Kruijswijk.

I also think Kruijswijk must be pinching himself there is not so much 1-mountain stages this year. Stages like Montecampione a few years back or Blockhaus as only climb. He'd hate it

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Where do you think Kruijswijk would have finished in last year's Tour with his current shape?

Valverde could be a good reference. I think he is here at a similar level to Le Tour. That altitude stage is not something you encounter in France.

 

[Laplaz]

Yes, i think this years Giro route is perfect for Steve .