Steven Kruijswijk

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roundabout said:
Forever The Best said:
hrotha said:
Forever The Best said:
He didn't ride for the win at any point in the race. In fact I don't think he deserved the podium either. Bernal, Alaphilippe and Pinot were the ones most deserving imo. Hell, even Thomas attacked more than Kruijswijk. :eek:
Yeah but he could only lose the podium to Buchmann and that would have been even worse.
Yes, I was rooting for Alaphilippe to hang on for Kruijswijk and Buchmann to finish outside the podium. When he cracked I thought 'Well, Kruijswijk is at least a proven GT rider so I prefer him to Buchmann'. And Buchmann's riding today proved that he deserved it even less, which is quite an achievement itself.
A proven GT rider and an unproven GT rider who both tried to play it as safe as possible, yet one was worse than the other. Go figure.
Kruijswijk looked a bit weaker in the mountains though getting dropped by Buchmann on both LPDBF and Prat d'Albis. But then again he had a stronger team at his disposal. Also he attacked at least once if I remember right. And he at least used his team for 3rd place today, so he deserved 3rd place a little bit more imo. (I think none of them deserved it, but if one of them is going to be 3rd, I would prefer Kruijswijk for that reason, well also Buchmann may never come close to a GT podium and be considered a fluke). And as I said biggest reason is that Buchmann had to attack to finish 3rd overall and didn't try an attack today.
 
Re: Re:

hrotha said:
Having a strong team and using it aggressively are not synonyms at all, and Buchmann's team wasn't bad. So no, I don't think there's anything strange in my argument.
Of course you don't.

Maybe you also disagree that a stronger team allows it be used more aggressively?
 
Re: Re:

Forever The Best said:
roundabout said:
I am still confused why having a weaker team is an argument against Buchmann.
I basically said that Kruijswijk had a stronger team so it is an argument against Kruijswijk. However I said that he at least used his team on the last day.
Kruijswijk had 2 riders to make the pace to Buchmann's 1 and more incentive to make the pace.
 
Re: Re:

roundabout said:
Forever The Best said:
roundabout said:
I am still confused why having a weaker team is an argument against Buchmann.
I basically said that Kruijswijk had a stronger team so it is an argument against Kruijswijk. However I said that he at least used his team on the last day.
Kruijswijk had 2 riders to make the pace to Buchmann's 1 and more incentive to make the pace.
And they made it. When Buchmann had the incentive to attack in the last few kms he didn't try anything.

And I don't think we are disagreeing on much either on this topic. We just disagree on who deserved the least while we probably agree that none of them deserved it.
 
Re: Re:

Forever The Best said:
roundabout said:
Forever The Best said:
roundabout said:
I am still confused why having a weaker team is an argument against Buchmann.
I basically said that Kruijswijk had a stronger team so it is an argument against Kruijswijk. However I said that he at least used his team on the last day.
Kruijswijk had 2 riders to make the pace to Buchmann's 1 and more incentive to make the pace.
And they made it. When Buchmann had the incentive to attack in the last few kms he didn't try anything.

And I don't think we are disagreeing on much either on this topic. We just disagree on who deserved the least while we probably agree that none of them deserved it.
I just watched the separate video of moto 2 who followed the group with the favorites and guess what, Poels leading the group and after the 1km banner on a slight downhill before a left bend, Buchmann "attacks"! It took maybe 50m to be reeled in by the same Poels.
 
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Red Rick said:
I cannot stress how unrealistic cracking Bernal was.

Difference between the podium and no podium was the TTT for Kruijswijk
And even riders as Landa said the pace by Jumbo and especially de Plus put everyone at the limit.

There was nothing left in the tank for the GC contenders. You hear people criticising Kruijswijk, but how many others actually tried something?
Quintana, Yates, people far away basically. Then Landa and Valverde only in the last km

The risk/reward factor is also in play here. Thomas didn't dare to attack because he was afraid Kruijswijk could take him.
Kruijswijk didn't attack because he was afraid Buchmann could take him.
Buchmann himself said he didn't have much left.

People with no risk (Landa) said the pace was too high to attack..

People overestimate what riders can do. I think from the front group only Bernal was probably capable of going even faster :lol:

Also, people also seem to have total amnesia considering Kruijswijk's racing style in the past. He showed plenty times he can be very aggresive when the opportunity presents it's self. Can you really forgive him for wanting to have 1 actual result showing for it? Instead of being 4th or 5th yet again even though trying heroic attacks?
 
Happy for Kruijswijk. Some consolation after the 2016 Giro. Seems to get a hard time for not attacking but that is obviously due to his physical makeup not his head. Everyone loved Contador but he attacked also because physically could. It wasn't just attitude. You do what you can as most who have raced a bike know.
 
The only thing that i can make out is that to win a GT either there needs to be a leader with super form or there needs to be 2 leaders of equal strength. That way leaders can take turns in attacking without the fear of consequences. The single leaders should have something exceptional in their arsenal- a superior TT or a superior climbing ability without being crash prone. Only Froome, Dumoulin maybe Quintana or Bernal are that riders in the entire peloton. With Kruijswijk he needs a foil like Roglic to attack and win a GT.
Even with 2 leaders, it is clear that too many domestiques on rival teams will spoil the show. team size of 6 is a must
 
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Cookster15 said:
Happy for Kruijswijk. Some consolation after the 2016 Giro. Seems to get a hard time for not attacking but that is obviously due to his physical makeup not his head. Everyone loved Contador but he attacked also because physically could. It wasn't just attitude. You do what you can as most who have raced a bike know.
Overall a deserved podium. I think that Steven suffers a little from the current day shorter stages. He seems to not have the speed, but has the endurance. If long mountain stages were 220-250 kms rather than 180-200 kms, and if we didn't have under 150 km mountain stages (which happened to get even shorter due to Mother Nature) then he would probably have more GT success.
 
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IndianCyclist said:
The only thing that i can make out is that to win a GT either there needs to be a leader with super form or there needs to be 2 leaders of equal strength. That way leaders can take turns in attacking without the fear of consequences. The single leaders should have something exceptional in their arsenal- a superior TT or a superior climbing ability without being crash prone. Only Froome, Dumoulin maybe Quintana or Bernal are that riders in the entire peloton. With Kruijswijk he needs a foil like Roglic to attack and win a GT.
Even with 2 leaders, it is clear that too many domestiques on rival teams will spoil the show. team size of 6 is a must
Can we just all finally admit that Quintana’s time at the top is done? He also was never at the level of Froome or Contador when he was granted Big 4 status based on expected results, but now he is certainly far from there now. Dumoulin and Froome (if he returns to form, which I am expecting) are the only 2 at the top. Bernal will have to earn his place. Beating GT and Kruijswijk doesn’t count IMO.

Back to the topic at hand, honestly happy Kruijswijk got the podium. Since Jumbo is bringing on Dumo, likely the best GT rider around right now, and they also have Roglic, where does that leave Kruijswijk?
 
Jul 15, 2019
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Re: Re:

VayaVayaVaya said:
Back to the topic at hand, honestly happy Kruijswijk got the podium. Since Jumbo is bringing on Dumo, likely the best GT rider around right now, and they also have Roglic, where does that leave Kruijswijk?
The last two GTs have been won by teams with two leaders, if Jumbo want to try that they can easily accommodate the three of them.
 
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