...still deciding if they would cooperate...

[Colm.Murphy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/22/sports/cycling/22cycling.html

Interesting is the mention that two of the riders Floyd mentioned have been contacted and are still deciding if they will cooperate.

Begs the questions of:

1. Really, what are they being offered.
2. What do they really know.

What is no longer a question is if they doped.

Now, care to speculate which are the two?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I agree with those you named.

Non-denial statements, "clean" landing spots after exiting USPS/Disco, and probably a bit of cold-sweating at the thought of spending time in a Federal "pound-you-in-the-azz" Prison.

 

[Anonymous]

I think those two are likely.. both as you say can claim doped at postal, clean since... And I think George especially would avoid the fallout, too many fans have too much respect for the work he did as a domestique even if he did dope.

 

[Ferminal]

How can you be "deciding whether or not to cooperate".

Basically you're deciding whether or not to tell the truths or non-truths.

 

[buckwheat]

I think those two are likely.. both as you say can claim doped at postal, clean since... And I think George especially would avoid the fallout, too many fans have too much respect for the work he did as a domestique even if he did dope.

I really don't trust or care about public sentiment.

GH sat quiet as a church mouse while pharmstrong tried to humiliate LeMond.

I'm sorry, but I have no respect for that.

In addition as I noted earlier. All of these wise guy fan boys who were ripping LeMond are going to find out what evidence is.

 

[buckwheat]

How can you be "deciding whether or not to cooperate".

Basically you're deciding whether or not to tell the truths or non-truths.

They'll lawyer up and invoke the 5th which doesn't look too good if you're clean.


This is the beginning of the end and when these guys understand how serious this investigation is, they'll be flipping quick.

Guys like DZ and CVV threw Decanio under the bus when they all knew he spoke the truth.

Eff em.

 

[_Zipp0_]

No denial from DZ...... Just "saddened". Things are getting interesting, The crack in omerta may be spider-webbing over the entire windshield.

 

[blaxland]

They'll lawyer up and invoke the 5th which doesn't look too good if you're clean.


This is the beginning of the end and when these guys understand how serious this investigation is, they'll be flipping quick.

Guys like DZ and CVV threw Decanio under the bus when they all knew he spoke the truth.

Eff em.

Who is Decanio?Sorry for my lack of knowledge on this topic?

 

[BroDeal]

Guys like DZ and CVV threw Decanio under the bus when they all knew he spoke the truth.

Eff em.

DeCanio was a nut. Seriously. He went way off the deep end. No one wanted to be associated with him.

 

[131313]

DeCanio was a nut. Seriously. He went way off the deep end. No one wanted to be associated with him.

my screen name is dedicated to making fun of the guy...

You're right, the guy is a total wack job. Just because you're anti-dope doesn't mean you're laudable....

Zajicek throw Zabriski under the bus, BTW.

 

[Red Lobster]

Who is Decanio?Sorry for my lack of knowledge on this topic?

In case you are not joking, google Matt decanio.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Zajicek throw Zabriski under the bus, BTW.

DID throw him under the bus?

or WOULD throw him under the bus?

 

[blackcat]

"stolen underground"

decanio still harbours nightmares about being deflowered by hog in the back of the postal bus, and took his resentment out on stolen underground.

his virginity was stolen, his innocence stole, by hog

 

[Berzin]

I really don't trust or care about public sentiment.

GH sat quiet as a church mouse while pharmstrong tried to humiliate LeMond.

I'm sorry, but I have no respect for that.

In addition as I noted earlier. All of these wise guy fan boys who were ripping LeMond are going to find out what evidence is.

Excellent post. I'm hoping for the sake of cycling this thing goes BABOOM!!! like a bomb in a Road Runner cartoon all over Lance Armstrong and The Hog (not our Hog, but Bruyneel).

 

[buckwheat]

DeCanio was a nut. Seriously. He went way off the deep end. No one wanted to be associated with him.

Of course he's a nut, but in a good way.

No one wanted to be associated with him because he didn't have a governor on the truth. A real loose cannon.

The "normal" people all went corporate and that's why we find ourselves in the position we are today both in cycling and politically.

I know the persona is out there, but he's a good guy, has balls, and had a lot of talent.

I don't know if you'll agree, but LA is a lot more of a nut than Decanio. He's borderline sociopath at least.

 

[Publicus]

I have to say that this article has to have Armstrong and others scrambling. The first one to the courthouse gets to tell his story and get the leniency. I suspect at least one of the guys is Zabriske (his statement wasn't even a non-denial denial). Not sure if Hincapie is strong enough to turn on Armstrong. In lots of ways he owes his career to Lance. Maybe Allen Lim?

 

[Berzin]

Maybe Allen Lim?

Allen Lim? Absolutely not. This guy owes his current lucrative contract to Armstrong. He's finally gotten that big payday working at Radio Shack and nothing anyone does will get him to fess up.

He's one cat that will go to the grave lying his a$$ off.

His whole career is at stake. He won't be able to get a job working in a rehab clinic at the VA if he talks.

Besides, what would he do with all those rice cakes?

My list hasn't really changed. I can only presume that they would start with Andreu and Vaughters, simply because the transcript of their text messages speak to the very heart of this matter.

Next would be Tyler Hamilton. Who else after that is anyone's guess.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. The most important point of the investigation is the offer of immunity. Without this, nothing moves forward.

The people being questioned have to be guaranteed immunity from prosecution by the UCI if the timing of the events falls within the eight year statute of limitations, and if they are currently still riding they would need to be immune from any type of ban whatsoever going forward.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Allen Lim? Absolutely not. This guy owes his current lucrative contract to Armstrong. He's finally gotten that big payday working at Radio Shack and nothing anyone does will get him to fess up.

He's one cat that will go to the grave lying his a$$ off.

His whole career is at stake. He won't be able to get a job working in a rehab clinic at the VA if he talks.

Besides, what would he do with all those rice cakes?

My list hasn't really changed. I can only presume that they would start with Andreu and Vaughters, simply because the transcript of their text messages speak to the very heart of this matter.

Next would be Tyler Hamilton. Who else after that is anyone's guess.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves. The most important point of the investigation is the offer of some type of immunity. Without this, nothing moves forward.

They have to be guaranteed immunity from prosecution by the UCI if the timing of the events falls within the statute of limitations, and if they are currently still riding they would need to be immune from any type of ban whatsoever.

The authority is a United States Federal Agency. Not a single one of them has a shred of fear for the UCI or USA Cycling, or USADA. Ban, Shman... We are talking about JAIL - PRISON - THE CLINK - LOCKDOWN - CELLMATES - THE EXERCISE YARD - GROUP SHOWERS with other criminals.

The big stick is in the hands of the Feds. And it is a BIG stick.

THAT is what is important, what is different this time. That is it.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The authority is a United States Federal Agency. Not a single one of them has a shred of fear for the UCI or USA Cycling, or USADA. Ban, Shman... We are talking about JAIL - PRISON - THE CLINK - LOCKDOWN - CELLMATES - THE EXERCISE YARD - GROUP SHOWERS with other criminals.

The big stick is in the hands of the Feds. And it is a BIG stick.

THAT is what is important, what is different this time. That is it.

Exactly. That's why Lance & Co. aren't filing anything. They'd be deposed by attorneys from the FDA. This isn't the ASO or UCI investigating. It's the Feds.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Oh no doubt. If federal investigators start calling, telling the riders and their lawyers that a case is likely to be filed, that's when we'll see some people talking. The threat of jail time is a very serious motivator. Ask the friends who talked about Michael Vick and even testified against him.

As far as USADA goes, they may have an ace in the hole in that regard. They can go to riders and say "talk now, and we'll grant you immunity, and not strip you of your past wins... Or, you can run the risk of waiting to see what a federal investigation brings up."

I too would guess GH and DZ are the two riders listed (so far). George is in a real bind, because he is close to retiring, and has been trying to get Pla d’Adet going with serious capital funding. If he talks now and admits to doping at USPS, he could take one hard punch, and then probably recover. If he ends up facing a federal indictment...

I too agree at some point Tyler will talk. I just think it's in him to do so. Maybe not name names, but I hope he can get his courage up and make a statement, even if it's just a generic broad confession and apology. I don't think anyone would point a figure at him if he did. He'd probably get a lot of respect from hard core fans, actually.

I don't see JV saying much. He's in a real pinch though, so he would be someone that USADA would want to talk to.

I don't think Frankie has anything else to say, or privy to any knowledge to related to this. He was a workhorse who doped some with EPO at the end of his career, not someone who went to Ferrari's secret camps, and wasn't even on the team at the same time as Floyd.

 

[pedaling squares]

Alpe just wrote some of what I was going to say, only better. I don't know why I suspect Zabriskie, maybe just something about his persona. I hadn't originally thought about Hincapie, as he must be pretty indoctrinated into the LA Hog program. But he is near the end of his career and has an established business and a start-up venture to focus on (funny that it's called Pla d'Adet, if any stage ever screamed PEDs...). He really doesn't need to be on the wrong side of a prosecution right now. I wondered if Michael Barry would come out and admit that he made bad choices early in his long career. If he could escape a suspension he could finish his career. Besides, when all this settles it won't be Michael Barry the focus will be on. His time in the frying pan would be relatively short.

EDIT: I agree that Allen Lim has the most to lose. I really cannot see him 'fessing up as an enabler.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Some questions and observations.

The NYT article said 'anti-doping' officals, so i would assume it is USADA.
Unless I am mistaken they are not Federal investigators?

Andreu & Vaughters never rode with Floyd and surely they would be outside the 8 years statue of limitations - as FA retired in 2000 & JV in 2003.

Also I found it revealing the 2 riders "are still deciding if they want to come forward" - which insinuates that there is evidence against them that the 'anti-doping officals' can move forward with and that the riders did not deny these accusations - they appear to be deciding on whether to roll or not.

We have only seen 1 email from Floyd - he may have mentioned other riders in his other correspondence.

As for Allen Lim - well he is towing the company line (badly) in this interview/.

 

[pedaling squares]

As for Allen Lim - well he is towing the company line (badly) in this interview/.

That is a field day for anyone who has training in statement analysis. Lim would be better served by not talking at all.

 

[Epicycle]

In my opinion the Feds need to go straight to Chris Carmichael. If there is anybody in the US who knows where Lance got his stuff or got it for him it's Carmichael.

 

[Cerberus]

Alpe just wrote some of what I was going to say, only better. I don't know why I suspect Zabriskie, maybe just something about his persona. I hadn't originally thought about Hincapie, as he must be pretty indoctrinated into the LA Hog program. But he is near the end of his career and has an established business and a start-up venture to focus on (funny that it's called Pla d'Adet, if any stage ever screamed PEDs...). He really doesn't need to be on the wrong side of a prosecution right now. I wondered if Michael Barry would come out and admit that he made bad choices early in his long career. If he could escape a suspension he could finish his career. Besides, when all this settles it won't be Michael Barry the focus will be on. His time in the frying pan would be relatively short.

EDIT: I agree that Allen Lim has the most to lose. I really cannot see him 'fessing up as an enabler.

Hincapie has issued a non-denying denial which would indicate he's still weighting his options. I don't think that Zabriskie has issued a clear denial either. Those are good reasons to think that they're the ones who might roll over.