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...still deciding if they would cooperate...

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Jul 23, 2009
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Epicycle said:
In my opinion the Feds need to go straight to Chris Carmichael. If there is anybody in the US who knows where Lance got his stuff or got it for him it's Carmichael.


But, but, I wasn't REALLY his coach. Honestly! It was Michele!!!
Look at me. I'm fat! I don't know anything!

5x8sc3.jpg
 
Jul 9, 2009
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pedaling squares said:
That is a field day for anyone who has training in statement analysis. Lim would be better served by not talking at all.
Wow, Lim needs some serious coaching on non denial denying. Next time stick with "no comment".
 
Dr. Maserati said:
Some questions and observations.

The NYT article said 'anti-doping' officals, so i would assume it is USADA.
Unless I am mistaken they are not Federal investigators?

Andreu & Vaughters never rode with Floyd and surely they would be outside the 8 years statue of limitations - as FA retired in 2000 & JV in 2003.

Also I found it revealing the 2 riders "are still deciding if they want to come forward" - which insinuates that there is evidence against them that the 'anti-doping officals' can move forward with and that the riders did not deny these accusations - they appear to be deciding on whether to roll or not.

We have only seen 1 email from Floyd - he may have mentioned other riders in his other correspondence.

As for Allen Lim - well he is towing the company line (badly) in this interview/.

Wow. I would DEFINITELY go after him. He looks like he would be relatively easy to break---especially if Floyd talks about him in the diaries/training journals.
 
Cerberus said:
Hincapie has issued a non-denying denial which would indicate he's still weighting his options. I don't think that Zabriskie has issued a clear denial either. Those are good reasons to think that they're the ones who might roll over.

Zabriske's statement is at the bottom of the NY Times article. To paraphrase it, he says its an unfortunate situation, he's going to focus on racing his bike.
 
Feb 21, 2010
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pedaling squares said:
That is a field day for anyone who has training in statement analysis. Lim would be better served by not talking at all.

Flounder-fumble-flounder-fumble.

That was quite a poor example of how to answer questions....wow.

He does look shaken. He is supposed to a be quite a well educated fellow. I have seen other videos of him, for the powertap, where he is quite eloquent and verbally in command. This was not that.
 
Feb 21, 2010
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Moose McKnuckles said:
Exactly. That's why Lance & Co. aren't filing anything. They'd be deposed by attorneys from the FDA. This isn't the ASO or UCI investigating. It's the Feds.

Form the emails on TeamRadioshack website, Floyd is, at one point, literally begging them to take a legal route. And they have not.

Flandis must have already been with the Feds at that point to know he could play that card. Stunning. The non-service of a suit speaks volumes.
 
Apr 27, 2010
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Wow! Put Allen Lim in a room with my 26lb french bulldog Tony and he'd spill the beans! That looks like one easy nut to crack..

game over lance, game over!!
 
pedaling squares said:
I wondered if Michael Barry would come out and admit that he made bad choices early in his long career. If he could escape a suspension he could finish his career. Besides, when all this settles it won't be Michael Barry the focus will be on. His time in the frying pan would be relatively short.

I hope he does. He is dragging Clara Hughes into the mud with him, and if there is one superstar athlete in the world I want to believe in, she's the one.
(yep, first post :eek:)

“I have known Michael since he was 15 years old and he has been a teammate, a friend, and a person I have looked to for hope as an athlete,” said Hughes. “Hope that it is possible to play fair and clean and that hard, disciplined work pays off. He is an individual of great integrity and there is simply no way in my mind that there is any basis to any allegations.” -- Clara Hughes
 
Feb 21, 2010
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santacruz said:
Wow! Put Allen Lim in a room with my 26lb french bulldog Tony and he'd spill the beans! That looks like one easy nut to crack..

game over lance, game over!!

Should post a pic, would love to see what kind of French dog could crack Mr. Lim.

Lim may/may not have direct knowledge of things at present within radioshack. If he corroborates Landis, then I agree, game, set match.

Unless the Feds lose interest (does not seem likely from the agents past) this is going to be a long, slow, bloodletting.

If the riders crack in succession, racing to get the offers on the table, then this could wrap up in a few weeks. My, how the world would change.

Prompts this question, and may be more suitable as a stand-alone topic:

Which is the bigger disaster?

The Gulf of Mexico Oil Leak

-or-

The Landis Accusation
 
Colm.Murphy said:
Should post a pic, would love to see what kind of French dog could crack Mr. Lim.

Lim may/may not have direct knowledge of things at present within radioshack. If he corroborates Landis, then I agree, game, set match.

Unless the Feds lose interest (does not seem likely from the agents past) this is going to be a long, slow, bloodletting.

If the riders crack in succession, racing to get the offers on the table, then this could wrap up in a few weeks. My, how the world would change.

Prompts this question, and may be more suitable as a stand-alone topic:

Which is the bigger disaster?

The Gulf of Mexico Oil Leak

-or-

The Landis Accusation

Without a doubt the Gulf of Mexico oil leak.
 
Teddy Boom said:
I hope he does. He is dragging Clara Hughes into the mud with him, and if there is one superstar athlete in the world I want to believe in, she's the one.
(yep, first post :eek:)

“I have known Michael since he was 15 years old and he has been a teammate, a friend, and a person I have looked to for hope as an athlete,” said Hughes. “Hope that it is possible to play fair and clean and that hard, disciplined work pays off. He is an individual of great integrity and there is simply no way in my mind that there is any basis to any allegations.” -- Clara Hughes


Team Sky knew of Barrys past when they hired him. They should stick by him if he does decide to 'fess. Unfortunately the statement by Brailsford looked like it would encourage him to maintain the omerta rather than clear his conscience. Handled correctly, Barry could be the key to busting this whole thing open.
 
Nov 24, 2009
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Y-JP-CYCLING-articleLarge.jpg



What a lovely metaphor that picture is that goes with the article - a tandem bike beside a sign that offers the invitation to cast no stones. Problem is that a more appropriate bike might need many more seats once this process is finished as surely Landis did not ride down this doping path alone and was almost certainly not the one sitting on the front seat steering the front wheel. Or maybe the juxtaposition of the two is just a simple invitation to get on the bike with Floyd and follow the ride.

I like that this article shows that the tide may be turning. Messick's frank comments. Two riders weighing their options. That Novitzky has briefed people. That Armstrong could not control or manipulate the message about him.

Each article by the NYT so far has been but an appetizer. But as more facts come to light, there at least appears to be the expectation of a full meal.
 
God Joe no way can I see bottle co-operating.
My two would be DZ and MB.
Due to time differences am just out of bed. That Allen Lim interview is funny and awful. God you can see the guy is not comfortable lying but this sport has made him this way. Sad.
I have pages of stuff to read through on here, work to do on the PC, gym, watch the Giro and go running this evening. But this topic is so fascinating to me I could easily see 10 hours wiped out.
And there is no way all those emails do anything but strengthen Floyd. His motivations actually seem even more genuine in the emails than I had ever envisaged.
 
Apr 16, 2010
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ahhh, poor old Lim - he was really really struggling to keep it together.

who's deciding whether or not to cooperate? Zabriskie definitely is up there in my books - I don't think Vaughters would come out with anything in the first instance. His statements simply said that the allegations were after his time, but he definitely directs any questions away from whether doping did or did not take place. I think if anything really did come of this, then he'd be a later player in the game and only get involved when he knew that there was general amnesty and the sport (and his team) could get on with life even in the widespread public knowledge of previous doping problems.

Hincapie? I don't know. Less to lose than some, and a fanbase that i imagine would take the news with more of a "oh george, we're really disappointed, but you're still a legend, and lets face it everyone else was doing it anyway. you've had a good career, well done, enjoy retirment" than have much animosity towards him. Difficult one to call though. He's a proud man and wouldn't want to stand up against his mates/colleagues/compatriots that's for sure.

Then again, what about the bus driver and the alleged remote french road IV pit-stop incident. A good line of investigation? Probably not a bad shout - no cycling omerta there, no face to lose really.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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petesam said:
Then again, what about the bus driver and the alleged remote french road IV pit-stop incident. A good line of investigation? Probably not a bad shout - no cycling omerta there, no face to lose really.

That's a good point, no risk of suspension, not nearly as dependant on the sport of cycling for his income, probably nothing that counts as criminal involvement in the doping. We've been focusing on the riders, but the bus driver really has the least to lose by coming clean.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Cerberus said:
That's a good point, no risk of suspension, not nearly as dependant on the sport of cycling for his income, probably nothing that counts as criminal involvement in the doping. We've been focusing on the riders, but the bus driver really has the least to lose by coming clean.

yes, but also much poorer and more likely to agree to silence in exchange for money.

Plus likely older, (possibly even dead) and harder to trace.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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Mongol_Waaijer said:
yes, but also much poorer and more likely to agree to silence in exchange for money.

Plus likely older, (possibly even dead) and harder to trace.

True, he still might talk though. Anyway, on reflection he cannot be one of the people mentioned. The 2 guys have been promised clemency from anti-doping authorities, and the driver would have no need of clemency since he can't be charged with doping violations in the first place.
 
Assuming one is DZ, all we've heard from him or about him by JV is that he wants to concentrate on winning the ToC, clean. So maybe with the promise to keep the results, he will win the ToC and then accept a deal and bow out gracefully. Maybe therefore we'll hear something from him later next week.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Cerberus said:
That's a good point, no risk of suspension, not nearly as dependant on the sport of cycling for his income, probably nothing that counts as criminal involvement in the doping. We've been focusing on the riders, but the bus driver really has the least to lose by coming clean.

If it happened on French soil, and he spends time in France, then I'd think the French authorities will be very interested in talking to him. Don't forget that doping or facilitating doping is a criminal offence in many European countries. Willy Voet & Bruno Roussel were both detained under criminal jurisdiction in 98.
 
Aug 6, 2009
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ultimobici said:
If it happened on French soil, and he spends time in France, then I'd think the French authorities will be very interested in talking to him. Don't forget that doping or facilitating doping is a criminal offence in many European countries. Willy Voet & Bruno Roussel were both detained under criminal jurisdiction in 98.

I'm sure they would like to talk to him, but charging him? If he has no involvement beyond driving the bus? I don't know French law, but I doubt they would do that, particularly not if he cooperates.