Strade Bianche 2023, March 4, one-day classic (men's & women's)

[yaco]

At the end of the day Jumbo, Bahrain and FDJ had two riders in the chase group and it should have been easy to bring back Pidcock.

 

[Riek s]

Most of this discussion now is moot. They didn't co-operate. Mohoric said he was toast, so wouldn't have faired better. Even if they'd have caught Pidcock, there's little likelihood that they'd have stayed on his wheel down the late descents ... not all of them anyway. And it's most likely, given his cyclocross background, that he'd have taken the win on the final climb anyway. He was the strongest, most courageous and smartest rider on the day and a deserved winner. If any of those riders in the chasing group actually had the legs to catch him, they'd have done it when he was just 6 seconds ahead and clearly visible. I don't think any of them actually had it in them.

they climbed the last climb substantially faster than pidcock though. They just knew that closing the last 6 seconds would have killed their chances compared to the others. Hence why someone in JV should have picked a rider to go for and let the other rider close the gap or maintain that gap. The others were afraid of JV having 2 riders, so they were not going to pull for JV.
If they maintained that gap or even kept it below 15seconds, they would have battled for the win. But instead they gifted him an additional 25 seconds for free, in which case there is almost no chance of getting back that time in any situation.

(not to diminish on pidcock performance because at the end of the day he rode to win and probably was the rider of the day. Just that he could have been beaten through tactics today).

 

[Red Rick]

I do think Jumbo's tactical failure is a bit overstated here. The group wasn't cooperating, and they were basically taking turns attacking the group. Neither of them were the strongest either.

 

[armchairclimber]

they climbed the last climb substantially faster than pidcock though. They just knew that closing the last 6 seconds would have killed their chances compared to the others. Hence why someone in JV should have picked a rider to go for and let the other rider close the gap or maintain that gap. The others were afraid of JV having 2 riders, so they were not going to pull for JV.
If they maintained that gap or even kept it below 15seconds, they would have battled for the win. But instead they gifted him an additional 25 seconds for free, in which case there is almost no chance of getting back that time in any situation.

(not to diminish on pidcock performance because at the end of the day he rode to win and probably was the strongest rider of the day. Just that he could have been beaten through tactics today).

Of course they climbed it faster, he knew he was well clear and that he had it in the bag ... and they still finished 20 seconds down. It was the fastest Strade Binche in the race's history, by some margin. Those riders furterh down confirmed that the pace was hard all day. Face it, they were knackered. That's why they didn't bridge over when they were close to him. They weren't good enough.

 

[Extinction]

Of course. I guess they were gambling that Pidcock would come back on his own. Trying to have their cake and eat it too.

I don't know if that were Jumbo-Visma or Valter trying to have cake and eat it too. What I do know is that you can only play two options when nobody is up the road, otherwise you have to sacrifice one and play your best card, which at the finish was Benoot.

 

[Jagartrott]

Stating that they couldn't close the remaining 6 seconds because they were too tired is ridiculous. Have you seen the race? They started playing games, sitting up, taking time to drink, etc. A couple of minutes of cooperation was all it would've taken to bring him back at that point. Six seconds is nothing.

 

[SafeBet]

To me the capital mistake by Jumbo was not having a rider (Valter being the most likely candidate) with Bettiol, Bagioli and Pidcock.
The DS probably realized it and asked Valter to attack and bridge a few minutes later but he couldn't close the gap and ended up wasting a lot of energy. At that point they were in a difficult position.

The composition of the group behind Pidcock in the final 20 km made the chase extremely complicated. I don't know whether the DS didn't make the call or it was one of the rider's refusing to his job. Perhaps they could have both worked, thus convincing the others to work a bit as well, and then play the numbers game once they had caught Pidcock.

 

[armchairclimber]

Stating that they couldn't close the remaining 6 seconds because they were too tired is ridiculous. Have you seen the race? They started playing games, sitting up, taking time to drink, etc. A couple of minutes of cooperation was all it would've taken to bring him back at that point. Six seconds is nothing.

Of course I watched it. And I know kiddology when I see it too. For them to bridge that 6 second gap, one of them at least would have had to bury themselves into the red for a good minute at least, when they had all just been doing exactly that for the previous 5 mins. Aside from that short period when they closed from 20 secs to 6 seconds, the gap was remarkably consistent. It clearly cost them a lot of energy to close the gap. Meanwhile they're carrying a crafty passenger and no-one wanted top be that fall guy and I doubt any of them had it in their legs anyway at that point.

 

[Jagartrott]

Six seconds is 60-70 m, and the last 20 or so do not really count because at that moment, Pidcock would've sat up. If it is a lonely chaser, it can happen that they just fail to close down those last tens of meters. But here? One guy was probably empty (Mohoric), but the others weren't. They didn't close the gap because of group dynamics, not due to exhaustion.

 

[Red Rick]

Of course I watched it. And I know kiddology when I see it too. For them to bridge that 6 second gap, one of them at least would have had to bury themselves into the red for a good minute at least, when they had all just been doing exactly that for the previous 5 mins. Aside from that short period when they closed from 20 secs to 6 seconds, the gap was remarkably consistent. It clearly cost them a lot of energy to close the gap. Meanwhile they're carrying a crafty passenger and no-one wanted top be that fall guy and I doubt any of them had it in their legs anyway at that point.

Yeah you get these moments where Pidcock, despite being solo for a long time, is a little fresher in a way at that moment because he went up a steep hill at a steadier pace instead of nuking it to try and drop everyone else. It's like how in Roubaix you don't see MvdP gain 30s every single cobbled sector.

 

[Extinction]

I do think Jumbo's tactical failure is a bit overstated here. The group wasn't cooperating, and they were basically taking turns attacking the group. Neither of them were the strongest either.

Yea, but that's because Jumbo didn't have a rider pilot the group, in which case they would have quickly stopped attacking each other and found more harmony. In any case, Pidcock did a superlative ride and was the deserved winner. It takes a lot of mental strength to not crack and insist with your move, when they are only 6 secs behind after out in front alone for so long. And I read in la Gazzetta dello Sport today that he was apparently 15 secs faster than Pog last year over more or less the same distance alone. Sure the dynamic was different, but still Pidcock did a monster performance.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Only me who thought the race was a bit whatever? Had really looked forward to VDP, Wout, Julian, Pidcock etc. going at it, but that didnt happen of course. To me it felt like a bunch of 2nd tier and 3rd tier riders trying to catch Pidcock, and it never happened cause Rui Costa and Jumbo.

Maybe Im a bit harsh though...

 

[Netserk]

Only me who thought the race was a bit whatever? Had really looked forward to VDP, Wout, Julian, Pidcock etc. going at it, but that didnt happen of course. To me it felt like a bunch of 2nd tier and 3rd tier riders trying to catch Pidcock, and it never happened cause Rui Costa and Jumbo.

Maybe Im a bit harsh though...

Van der Poel and Alaphilippe were crap, and while that was a downer, it doesn't in itself make the race poor. But to me, those 2nd and 3rd tier riders (Mohoric, Madouas, Benoot mostly) were also important enough that I cared. Can't help if you didn't.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Van der Poel and Alaphilippe were crap, and while that was a downer, it doesn't in itself make the race poor. But to me, those 2nd and 3rd tier riders (Mohoric, Madouas, Benoot mostly) were also important enough that I cared. Can't help if you didn't.

If you read my post again, I dont say the race was crap or I didnt care, lol. Just that I had hoped for more and wasn't full invested or what have you.

 

[stonerider]

Van der Poel and Alaphilippe were crap, and while that was a downer, it doesn't in itself make the race poor. But to me, those 2nd and 3rd tier riders (Mohoric, Madouas, Benoot mostly) were also important enough that I cared. Can't help if you didn't.

Van der Poel used all his mojo up to win CX Worlds. He's not the unstoppable force we thought he was in 2019. It'll take him a little while to build back up.

 

[Extinction]

Yea, but that's because Jumbo didn't have a rider pilot the group, in which case they would have quickly stopped attacking each other and found more harmony. In any case, Pidcock did a superlative ride and was the deserved winner. It takes a lot of mental strength to not crack and insist with your move, when they are only 6 secs behind after out in front alone for so long. And I read in la Gazzetta dello Sport today that he was apparently 15 secs faster than Pog last year over more or less the same distance alone. Sure the dynamic was different, but still Pidcock did a monster performance.

Well I suppose that depends on who you were routing for, if any rider. Personly I was pleased for Pidcock, because he seems like a nice bloke, even with a self-deprecating humor (see the latest CN article), and it's nice to have another candidate to throw into the Pog-van Aert-MvdP duel in de Ronde, presuming Tom is riding it and then again at Liege with Remco and Tadej battling it out

 

[Netserk]

If you read my post again, I dont say the race was crap or I didnt care, lol. Just that I had hoped for more and wasn't full invested or what have you.

I said the race wasn't poor, not that it wasn't crap (MvdP and Ala were crap). To me this sounds like not caring: "Only me who thought the race was a bit whatever?"

And while I didn't specify what I cared for, it was not only about the race, but also about those particular riders that I mentioned. Didn't sound like you cared about Madouas.

It's not like I dismissed your opinion as invalid, so I don't get why you are so grumpy.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I said the race wasn't poor, not that it wasn't crap (MvdP and Ala were crap). To me this sounds like not caring: "Only me who thought the race was a bit whatever?"

And while I didn't specify what I cared for, it was not only about the race, but also about those particular riders that I mentioned. Didn't sound like you cared about Madouas.

It's not like I dismissed your opinion as invalid, so I don't get why you are so grumpy.

"A bit whatever" just means mediocre. Thats all.

 

[Red Rick]

The action was exceptional. I don't think a great race requires the top favorite winning.

 

[topcat]

Moan 1. Ala and MVDP tanked
Moan 2. Not a proper chase
Moan 3. Pidcock won. What we’re going to have to listen to.
Moan 4. A race not befitting a monument.
I thought it was a good race and it was exciting. So there you have it.

 

[Extinction]

Moan 1. Ala and MVDP tanked
Moan 2. Not a proper chase
Moan 3. Pidcock won. What we’re going to have to listen to.
Moan 4. A race not befitting a monument.
I thought it was a good race and it was exciting. So there you have it.

I think at 250 km it would be a race befitting of a Super Monument.

 

[CyclistAbi]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/im-not-a-selfish-racer-attila-valter-revisits-jumbo-vismas-strade-bianche-mistakes/

Valter no real need to apologize to the internet mob. And you can be a bit selfish from time to time. As we are humans after all.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Moan 1. Ala and MVDP tanked
Moan 2. Not a proper chase
Moan 3. Pidcock won. What we’re going to have to listen to.
Moan 4. A race not befitting a monument.
I thought it was a good race and it was exciting. So there you have it.

If it were a monument, Van Aert and Pogacar would have been at the start. Alaphilippe and Van der Poel would have made it a goal and not have tanked. Maybe Evenepoel would even learn to ride on gravel. It would have been a completely different race, Pidcock would not have made it to the finish, as there would have been a proper chase (the Jumbots would have worked for Van Aert).

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Logic-is-your-friend

But it would likely turn out to be much more boring edition. This was a proper SB edition. Even without all the prima donnas.

 

[Extinction]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/im-not-a-selfish-racer-attila-valter-revisits-jumbo-vismas-strade-bianche-mistakes/

Valter no real need to apologize to the internet mob. And you can be a bit selfish from time to time. As we are humans after all.

"This guy is a dumb-dumb. It doesn't matter if they were actually on your wheel while you bridged, you gave them a carrot to follow, and no reason to hold back or look at each other. If your man is up the road you sit on, period.

Riding a high tempo on the climbs is a waste of a teammate. You're not taking advantage of your numerical superiority and instead wearing down your teammate as much as your opponents. "surprise attacks" are the right move." - Pf

That's Just cycling 101.