Study of Power meters.They are really same as HR monitors, but lot more expensive.

[FrankDay]

Red Herring. It's not the race organisers job to care about power output in a race.

But I am sure the High Performance staff who were measuring data from the event (and lots of it) will be looking at performances very closely.

Statistics (and, I suspect, power data analysis) is for losers and people trying to justify their jobs.

 

[CoachFergie]

Statistics (and, I suspect, power data analysis) is for losers and people trying to justify their jobs.

Only for those who don't understand or worse play dumb because power meters are the performance metric that stonewalls their marketing claims.

 

[Tapeworm]

Statistics (and, I suspect, power data analysis) is for losers and people trying to justify their jobs.

Quoted for prosperity.

 

[CoachFergie]

Statistics (and, I suspect, power data analysis) is for losers and people trying to justify their jobs.

If anything for no extra cost to my riders (unless they want a premium account) going to TrainingPeaks has streamlined the racing and training with a power meter process. More time for me to teach them how to win bike races.

Also if anything it's made it better for coaching because I can see just how hard they are working and they actually know they are performing better rather than the old days where a coach could spin a yarn about the times or speed.

In our monthly track Omnium's the riders all improve 2-5 seconds each month in a 2km pursuit. Part of that is training but the big thing is they are getting closer to the goal events and come championship time they will go from spokies to carbons or disc wheels. Now I have several riders with track power meters I will be able to measure their real progress.

You're not wrong about people trying to justify their jobs. At a HP coaching course we had a guy speak about antioxidant qualities or certain foods and he had the numbers, the data and the references to support his presentation. No arguments. The next guy spoke about strength training and started with "this has been my experience". Fricking nightmare, everyone had an opinion, their own experiences and no two people had a similar view.

Bit like posting on a forum that there is an importance to crank length and having nothing but opinion and anecdote to support it. Particularly foolish when the research suggests no significant importance. Data trumps meaningless anecdotes any time!

 

[FrankDay]

Since science seems to get bandied about here quite a bit I thought you all might enjoy this

 

[CoachFergie]

Since science seems to get bandied about here quite a bit I thought you all might enjoy this

I had just posted that to my Facebook page.

What is more humorous is what preceded that story and the difference in media response to the original claims about climate change science.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-26-2011/weathering-fights?xrs=synd_facebook

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Statistics (and, I suspect, power data analysis) is for losers and people trying to justify their jobs.

wow. just wow.

 

[CoachFergie]

What does it say about someone making claims for short cranks or independent cranks based from anecdotes and personal opinion?

 

[CoachFergie]

Statistics (and, I suspect, power data analysis) is for losers and people trying to justify their jobs.

Anecdotes (and, I suspect opinion based analysis) is for losers and people trying to justify their product!

 

[FrankDay]

wow. just wow.

Guess you don't follow football. People use statistics a lot to try to prove their team is better than the record shows. That is why "statistics are for losers".

 

[CoachFergie]

Guess you don't follow football. People use statistics a lot to try to prove their team is better than the record shows. That is why "statistics are for losers".

and winners.

I have a rider who wins most of the races he starts. Through measurement of of his power we can ensure that his training and dietary interventions are leading to performance gains.

Had a woman training for Masters World Track Champs and local conditions were pretty bad to the extent her flying 200m times were four seconds off world record pace and she was losing motivation fast. Fortunately the power meter showed she was still improving and she made the trip. In competition .1 off the WR and 4 World Titles. Had she gone by times and feel she would never have left the Country.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Guess you don't follow football. People use statistics a lot to try to prove their team is better than the record shows. That is why "statistics are for losers".

It's kind of fun to spot the latest Frank logical fallacy. Non-Sequitur this time.

 

[daveinzambia]

I am starting to wonder if either Frank and Fergie are the same person with a multiple personality disorder and serious self hate issues or brothers.

not sure what else can explain this single minded dedication to debating each other.

 

[CoachFergie]

I am starting to wonder if either Frank and Fergie are the same person with a multiple personality disorder and serious self hate issues or brothers.

not sure what else can explain this single minded dedication to debating each other.

I would like to think any alternate personality of mine would not have to resort to opinion and anecdote to market a product and logistical fallacies in a lame attempt to undermine the measurement tool used to refute those marketing claims.

One does not debate Frank, one merely prods him to see the next humorous distortion, logistical fallacy and contradiction.

 

[oldborn]

Summary, Power Meters are for woosies!

 

[durianrider]

This one is a no brainer.

Ride at 165bpm up a 10% climb. Look at your watts at 70/80/90/100 cadance.

Your gonna have same hr but your power is gonna go up or down depending on what cadence is better for you and your gonna go faster or slower.

Since training with power, Ive smashed all my pb's.

If HRM was as good as PM's then you wouldnt see guys like Lance and Cadel using the indoors on trainers when no tv camera's are watching to meet sponsors goals.

Ive been out training with various Pro teams in Adelaide since 2002 and every year more and more riders are using them. Having a pm is one reason I can ride so strong on a 10.5kg bamboo bike. I can select peak power cadence just by knowing what is the right watts to be pumping for certain climbs and what is too fast/slow for to get a given result.

 

[mastersracer]

Statistics (and, I suspect, power data analysis) is for losers and people trying to justify their jobs.

Ironically, statistical studies confirm (with statistical significance!) that people who make these sorts of claims about statistics have an IQ at least 2 standard deviations below the mean.

 

[oldborn]

Watch out guys fargo is log on.
Cauch Fargo could you tell us how was that when you realized that you are genius?

 

[Boeing]

This one is a no brainer.

Ride at 165bpm up a 10% climb. Look at your watts at 70/80/90/100 cadance.

Your gonna have same hr but your power is gonna go up or down depending on what cadence is better for you and your gonna go faster or slower.

Since training with power, Ive smashed all my pb's.

If HRM was as good as PM's then you wouldnt see guys like Lance and Cadel using the indoors on trainers when no tv camera's are watching to meet sponsors goals.

Ive been out training with various Pro teams in Adelaide since 2002 and every year more and more riders are using them. Having a pm is one reason I can ride so strong on a 10.5kg bamboo bike. I can select peak power cadence just by knowing what is the right watts to be pumping for certain climbs and what is too fast/slow for to get a given result.

It's a bit of a reach to say you are going to have the same heart rate mate?

I am not at the levels you describe by any means.

Are you saying you are at the same heart rate at any given cadence?

 

[42x16ss]

It's a bit of a reach to say you are going to have the same heart rate mate?

I am not at the levels you describe by any means.

Are you saying you are at the same heart rate at any given cadence?

Umm, if you use a HRM to monitor and stay at the same heart rate, then I strongly suspect that you are going to have..... TADA! the same heart rate!

Funny that huh.

If you vary your cadence in the steps described but stay at the same HR it's kinda obvious that your power output is going to vary along with it yeah?

The best part is, it doesn't matter what your level of fitness is, you just need to hit the Heart Rate you want to measure your power/cadence at. The results are all relative TO YOU and will change as you improve.

edit: Can't believe I'm agreeing with Harley here I think I need some fresh air and a hamburger....

 

[CoachFergie]

A good new study available showing the benefit of recording peak power for various durations to monitor progression in performance towards a major event. For those who like to test their training, race performances and equipment leading into goal events.

http://www.fredericgrappe.com/CV/bibliographie/D30.pdf

 

[veganrob]

A good new study available showing the benefit of recording peak power for various durations to monitor progression in performance towards a major event. For those who like to test their training, race performances and equipment leading into goal events.

http://www.fredericgrappe.com/CV/bibliographie/D30.pdf

Slightly off topic question for you if I may. I am a road rider, race occasionally. I train with use of power meter. It is off season here in Mi so much is done on rollers. Would it be of any benefit to do some riding now on a fixed gear bike?
If you would rather talk off line that is fine.
thanks
Rob

 

[CoachFergie]

I had a winter bike set up with fixed gear, mudguards and a halogen lighting system which worked rather well for any outdoor riding.

 

[veganrob]

I had a winter bike set up with fixed gear, mudguards and a halogen lighting system which worked rather well for any outdoor riding.

On the rollers is what I meant, sorry.

 

[CoachFergie]

On an indoor trainer or rollers I don't think the advantage would be as great. The benefit of the fixed gear on the road is you end up doing more work as you can't stop pedalling.