Subpoenas issued -- Armstrong's goose is cooked

[Glaucon]

Omerta in cycling is not the same as omerta in organized crime because the dudes riding the bikes are not quite the caliber of criminal as are Fat Bobby and Gino. Federal subpoenas and Grand Juries will cause them to wet themselves.

As Tony Soprano once said, "Used to be a guy got pinched, he took his prison jolt no matter what. Everybody upheld the code of silence. Nowadays, no values. Guys today have no room for the penal experience. So everybody turns government witness ... I feel exhausted just talking about it."

 

[Crashes and punctures]

Forgive me, but Hamilton was not named in the article, and it was not claimed that anybody was about to tell all they know...?

 

[131313]

So if the cheaters are now feeling "cheated" what do all the clean riders feel?

Well, I don't know how I feel. Truth is, while other guys totally cheating pi$$es me off, I knew the game when I started. I also have a much better understanding of the damage these guys are potentially doing to their bodies than they do themselves, so on some level I feel sympathy.

So, while I rant on here about it, once I put on my chamois I actually stop thinking about it, since I can only control my own actions. I'd suggest the same to anyone else racing clean against a bunch of guys who are juiced.

 

[Cobblestones]

Go Lance!

Weird, when I stroke my something, Jesus kills a kitten, or so my mum told me once.

 

[BroDeal]

So if the cheaters are now feeling "cheated" what do all the clean riders feel?

The clean riders--if there are any--are probably having a good laugh about now as they watch the UCI's facade begin to crumble..

How long before Bruyneel decides that visiting the U.S. is not a good idea?

 

[Anonymous]

As Tony Soprano once said, "Used to be a guy got pinched, he took his prison jolt no matter what. Everybody upheld the code of silence. Nowadays, no values. Guys today have no room for the penal experience. So everybody turns government witness ... I feel exhausted just talking about it."

Armstrong was born under a bad sign with a blue moon in his eye...

 

[Speedzero]

Grand jury already?

If a grand jury has been impaneled, I think that really is a big deal. Grand jury proceedings can go on for months and months, but a prosecutor generally doesn't bring them in unless he has a plan in mind. In other words, if the reports are correct we may have moved from the investigatory phase to the prosecutorial phase awfully quickly.

 

[BroDeal]

Forgive me, but Hamilton was not named in the article, and it was not claimed that anybody was about to tell all they know...?

No one who was subpoened was named, but Hamilton said that if he was subpoenaed then he would fully cooperate. That is practically an invitation to be first in line for a subpoena.

 

[Cobblestones]

Dudes riding bikes are ostensibly not criminals. Fat Bobby and Gino are and don't have to keep up a public relations front.

Athletes have a tough time invoking their 5th Amendment rights without being viewed skeptically.

You can only take the fifth when implicating yourself, not when called as witness against someone unrelated.

 

[Crashes and punctures]

That generation of tour riders seem pretty tough. It took someone who was emotionally unstable to spill the beans, and even that guy had been lying for years without conscience. It's not a full gone conclusion that they will roll over. After all, they're used to taking pain.

The interest part for me is, what if the investigation proves there was doping but not with federal funds? Will they drop the charges if that occurs?

 

[Crashes and punctures]

No one who was subpoened was named, but Hamilton said that if he was subpoenaed then he would fully cooperate. That is practically an invitation to be first in line for a subpoena.

Everybody has said they will fully cooperate with the investigation, including Armstrong.

The question is whether they will tell the truth or say they can't remember any doping, not whether they will cooperate.

 

[isayic]

I'm almost sure that Armstrong is used to doping for a very long time. According to his book 'It's not about the bike' he already looked for opportunities to ride for money when he was a teenager. He even faked the date of birth on his identity card for riding with older competitors and more money for wins. -- His cancer when he was 25 could have been caused by doping at a rather young age. Better if he had only sniffed glue.

 

[Oldman]

What took so long?

Yawn.

After all this blows over, the haters will still be haters.
The fanboys will still be fanboys.
And the general public will not care.

Haven't heard from you in a few days. Feeling OK? The General Public will know about their American Icons and they'll live in the Clemens and MacGuire catagory. The cyclists that go down won't even get the Asterisk*. Does this mean much news? No; we've been speculating on the likelihood of fraud and associated charges for some time but the added interest is whether the American principle targets will lie or tell the truth.
Then the interest will move uphill to the UCI and those that have been profitting on the fraud and drug distribution.
Cyclists will probably care, do you?

 

[BroDeal]

That generation of tour riders seem pretty tough. It took someone who was emotionally unstable to spill the beans, and even that guy had been lying for years without conscience. It's not a full gone conclusion that they will roll over. After all, they're used to taking pain.

None of these guys will want to land in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison to protect Armstrong. A few people talking forces everyone one to talk. No one will want to be the one guy who maintains the lie and earns the ire of the prosecutor..

 

[Crashes and punctures]

Haven't heard from you in a few days. Feeling OK?

Just checked his post history and he has been posting over the last few days. Why wouldn't he?

 

[santacruz]

131313, your co-workers sound like real jerks, sorry.

oh btw, I thought awhile back there were rumors about LA wanting to get into politics? was that true? I'm sure if he is completely destroyed by Novitzky, he doesn't have a chance in hell for political office, or does he? I would be surprised if he got anywhere after his true colors are revealed.. but then again, a small part of me says, this is America, and some politicians are much dirtier than LA.

 

[Crashes and punctures]

None of these guys will want to land in a federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison to protect Armstrong. A few people talking forces everyone one to talk. No one will want to be the one guy who maintains the lie and earns the ire of the prosecutor..

Can you go to prison for saying you can't remember something?

In the CSA case witnesses on both sides said they can't remember. They must be sweating if it turns out they were lying.

 

[Oldman]

131313, your co-workers sound like real jerks, sorry.

oh btw, I thought awhile back there were rumors about LA wanting to get into politics? was that true? I'm sure if he is completely destroyed by Novitzky, he doesn't have a chance in hell for political office, or does he? I would be surprised if he got anywhere after his reputation is tarnished.. but then again, a small part of me says, this is America, and some politicians are much dirtier than LA.

Jesse "the Body" Ventura was elected Governor of Minnesota. He took steroids. Arnold "Terminator" Schwarzenegger is current governor of California. He took steriods.
George W Bush was elected governor of Texas and President of the United States, twice. He should have taken steriods but just drank and snorted coke.
Lance may be lying about taking drugs and beating people and profitted from cancer charities.

The first three didn't lie about their PED's.

 

[131313]

131313, your co-workers sound like real jerks, sorry.

Well, some of them are. But mostly, they're just normal people. I try my best not to get miffed, but the thing that gets me is the constant question of "hey, are you doing that Tour de France thing?". As if it's like the local 10K and you just sign up or something??

That's now morphed to "hey, shouldn't you be in France right now?". I'll admit, it gets old.

But really, I think it does show that Lance certainly transcends cycling, and this is really more than just a "cycling story".

 

[131313]

Jesse "the Body" Ventura was elected Governor of Minnesota. He took steroids. Arnold "Terminator" Schwarzenegger is current governor of California. He took steriods.
George W Bush was elected governor of Texas and President of the United States, twice. He should have taken steriods but just drank and snorted coke.
Lance may be lying about taking drugs and beating people and profitted from cancer charities.

The first three didn't lie about their PED's.

I think if he did a mea culpa right now and came clean, and spent the next 3-5 years working on his image, he'd completely recover.

I don't think he's going to do that.

I'll totally be Lance's life coach. He'll have to pay me way more than he paid Mike Anderson, though. Lance, if you're listening, call me. I'll forget all about that thing at Gila...

 

[BroDeal]

The nice thing about Hamilton is that he was on Postal when the Swiss positive was fixed, and he was always on much better terms with Armstrong than FLandis. Heiny V. will have to start e-mailing Hamilton.

 

[shawnrohrbach]

And The Hog and The Uniballer will need soap on a rope...

Why I know someone in prison is beside the point and perhaps embarrassing, but the whole cliche of rape in the showers is not as big a deal as we are taught to believe. If you can even get into the shower during the 30 minutes when thirty shower heads are activated and two thousand men want to shower is the problem. A lot of guys, I am told, use toilet water to wash themselves up nice and fresh to avoid the morning rush. The person I know went from a skinny teenager who feared being cell swapped to a ferocious over muscled fighter in the weight yard who swears he will only lose a fight if he dies. Now there's something to aspire to.

 

[Crashes and punctures]

Jesse "the Body" Ventura was elected Governor of Minnesota. He took steroids. Arnold "Terminator" Schwarzenegger is current governor of California. He took steriods.
George W Bush was elected governor of Texas and President of the United States, twice. He should have taken steriods but just drank and snorted coke.
Lance may be lying about taking drugs and beating people and profitted from cancer charities.

The first three didn't lie about their PED's.

I don't think the public will see the cancer angle the same way though. Maybe Armstrong does in part use that as a shield for good reason - that when the day came when people spoke out, which was always going to come at some point, people will say that he used his fame for a very good reason so they don't mind that much.

I think that will work with most ordinary people.

 

[BroDeal]

I don't think the public will see the cancer angle the same way though. Maybe Armstrong does in part use that as a shield for good reason - that when the day came when people spoke out, which was always going to come at some point, people will say that he used his fame for a very good reason so they don't mind that much.

I think that will work with most ordinary people.

Sure it will, BPC. People just love being deceived.

 

[Crashes and punctures]

The nice thing about Hamilton is that he was on Postal when the Swiss positive was fixed, and he was always on much better terms with Armstrong than FLandis. Heiny V. will have to start e-mailing Hamilton.

If Hamilton says Armstrong told him the same thing, will that prove that it's true, or will they need some evidence from officials and scientists to collaborate it?

For instance, I could boast to a room full of witnesses that I bribed Cycling news to change one of their stories, but unless there is any evidence confirming it actually happened then the authorities can't do anything.