I'm sure they're about as clean as Sky but they have the advantage of being a fresh face and not insulting the public with bogus PR. Yes, train races are boring but if there are two trains then at least there is some suspense.
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Re:
And Dumoulin at least got some results as a young guy and is pretty enough to go on a magazine cover and not hurt sales.
DanielSong39 said:
And Dumoulin at least got some results as a young guy and is pretty enough to go on a magazine cover and not hurt sales.
Re:
Well, in fact they came to the scene telling everyone how different they were. And it made a sort of sense, going only for mass sprints, only to have some classic success a couple of years later.
But indeed, they never insulted someone's intelligence the way Sky does, they never brought boring racing or insane dominance. And Dumoulin developed in a very natural way. Step by step, getting stronger year by year.
For now, we can only hope they'll become as strong as Sky, with Kelderman, Oomen and Ten Dam in the mountains, and probably someone to replace Barguil.
DanielSong39 said:
Well, in fact they came to the scene telling everyone how different they were. And it made a sort of sense, going only for mass sprints, only to have some classic success a couple of years later.
But indeed, they never insulted someone's intelligence the way Sky does, they never brought boring racing or insane dominance. And Dumoulin developed in a very natural way. Step by step, getting stronger year by year.
For now, we can only hope they'll become as strong as Sky, with Kelderman, Oomen and Ten Dam in the mountains, and probably someone to replace Barguil.
Re: Re:
Cheers that's what I think too. Even more obvious to me than the two teams results is the way they don't peak in form or should I say stay at their peak. It's not right.
pastronef said:
Cheers that's what I think too. Even more obvious to me than the two teams results is the way they don't peak in form or should I say stay at their peak. It's not right.
Re: Re:
oh cmon, ten dam? He wouldn't have a place on Sky's B team and he's on his way out. He's a competent road captain who disappeared long before the final climb on every stage of the giro. The only visible contribution from an outside observer's perspective was after shitgate and he still couldn't hang with his captain the way nieve, poels, kwia, geraint, ...
Pennino said:
oh cmon, ten dam? He wouldn't have a place on Sky's B team and he's on his way out. He's a competent road captain who disappeared long before the final climb on every stage of the giro. The only visible contribution from an outside observer's perspective was after shitgate and he still couldn't hang with his captain the way nieve, poels, kwia, geraint, ...
Re: Re:
Ten Dam could be still very decent if he can peak for the TDF the way he did before joining Sunweb. I mean really peaking, not entering a serious race and just preparing somewhere in the US. Curious if he could pull that off again.
proffate said:
Ten Dam could be still very decent if he can peak for the TDF the way he did before joining Sunweb. I mean really peaking, not entering a serious race and just preparing somewhere in the US. Curious if he could pull that off again.
Are people here seriously suggesting that Sunweb can challenge Sky in the mountains? I think some are vastly overestimating the strength of Sunwebs squad.
It should be noted however that on the Angliru stage, they still had 3 man working for Kelderman at the first part of the climb. This is after Cobertoria and Cordal, and this was without Barguil and Oomen.
Sunweb are fine. No worse than anyone else. Dumoulin is only 26 so he is on the up. Good on them.
Youngest ever team that won the worlds TTT, nobody older than 26. The 90-ties generation is insane
Re:
What will this prove ? Matthews 2nd and 4th in the last two editions - Suited by the parcours so has an undeniable chance - Maybe you can set up a thread for every rider who wins a race !
DanielSong39 said:
What will this prove ? Matthews 2nd and 4th in the last two editions - Suited by the parcours so has an undeniable chance - Maybe you can set up a thread for every rider who wins a race !
But yaco it's not only captains firepower but his team supporting firepower too..never seen that fabulous thunderbirds aka Team Sky doing dat team(fire)works..
Hmm, read something interesting in the Volkskrant today. There was a piece about Dumoulin and in the final part of that piece, it was about Sunweb's anti-doping stance.
They explained they have an anti-doping 'team' that controls their own riders, and lets rider know when they are being investigated. They also said that doesn't happen often but didn't deny it never happens.
This is kind of a double for me. To the press it's obviously meant as 'look how anti doping we are', but to me, it could also mean 'we are making sure they don't go to far'..
They explained they have an anti-doping 'team' that controls their own riders, and lets rider know when they are being investigated. They also said that doesn't happen often but didn't deny it never happens.
This is kind of a double for me. To the press it's obviously meant as 'look how anti doping we are', but to me, it could also mean 'we are making sure they don't go to far'..
Dekker_Tifosi said:
JV made similar claims about having to spend half a million dollars* a year with internal anti doping tests. He didn't like it being pointed out it could also be used to stop riders testing positive.
*no one has confirmed whether JV actually did it. How does someone test riders who are all over half the world?
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Of course it means that. And the whole world is buying it. Brilliant.
Incredible how easy it is. The more sophisticated you look, the more in control, the more professional, the more success you have, less suspicious you will be considered.
Dekker_Tifosi said:
It's the logical approach. Doping or not, internal testing will help the team "manage" it.
From a anti-dope perspective it does sound good. (if you know little about it)
Remember when Riis admitted his doping usage, they launched a massive internal testing regime on CSC.
They even released some graphs of rider values, though Rasmus Damgaard's integrity later came into question.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/csc-releases-internal-testing-results/
This is funny in hindsight:
One could argue, even CSC were more "transparent" than the super duper all time clean SKY lol.
As for Sunweb, they seem to fly under (sometimes faux) media scrutiny, for now.
The point of internal testing is to lessen the chance of your rider being nabbed by external testing.
That means making sure that your riders are not macro-dosing on drugs that are years out of date.
That means making sure that your riders are not macro-dosing on drugs that are years out of date.
Whilst things may have changed at Sunweb, they do seem to have had some sort of anti-doping policies in place in previous years and some evidence of that has come out through the Dr.Janssen revelations/Thomas Dekker book.
>Skil/Sunweb are one of the few teams who hire primarily outside the ex pro brigade for team DS positions. Only Rudi Kemna was an ex-pro and he was made confess to doping, despite the fact there was zero pressure from outside the team for him to do so.
>Janssen was team doctor in 2007 when he adpoted his anti-doping stance and told Clement L'Hotellerie to cut out the doping.
>Then when Janssen joned Vacansoleil, his successor at Skil(who?) approached Janssen to check the French riders Blood values as they were suspicious of his performances, Janssen said they were out of whack and L'Hotellerie was gone at the end of the season.
>Thomas Dekker in his book stated that Skil-Shimano were a possible destination for him after Rabobank, but they were not exactly beating down his door. They asked for his blood values, but he refused to provide them, this combined with the riders on the team speaking against him ended any possible interest the team had in signing him.
>Laurens Ten Dam who was noted as a clean rider by Dekker has been a stalwart at the team for some years now.
In their former guise, they did tend to sign younger, non established riders, but the likes of Matthews/Kelderman have bucked that trend. I dont think Dumoulin was an establised rider when he signed for them.
>Skil/Sunweb are one of the few teams who hire primarily outside the ex pro brigade for team DS positions. Only Rudi Kemna was an ex-pro and he was made confess to doping, despite the fact there was zero pressure from outside the team for him to do so.
>Janssen was team doctor in 2007 when he adpoted his anti-doping stance and told Clement L'Hotellerie to cut out the doping.
>Then when Janssen joned Vacansoleil, his successor at Skil(who?) approached Janssen to check the French riders Blood values as they were suspicious of his performances, Janssen said they were out of whack and L'Hotellerie was gone at the end of the season.
>Thomas Dekker in his book stated that Skil-Shimano were a possible destination for him after Rabobank, but they were not exactly beating down his door. They asked for his blood values, but he refused to provide them, this combined with the riders on the team speaking against him ended any possible interest the team had in signing him.
>Laurens Ten Dam who was noted as a clean rider by Dekker has been a stalwart at the team for some years now.
In their former guise, they did tend to sign younger, non established riders, but the likes of Matthews/Kelderman have bucked that trend. I dont think Dumoulin was an establised rider when he signed for them.
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