Tabata Protocol

[oldborn]

oldborn = coachfergie

Oh nooo, i could not sleep because that

 

[runninboy]

Prety good results, but anyway those 10x400m are not same as Mr. Tabata sugest 20sec, wright?

You did 4km anyway with those HIIT and plus rest interval i figure that you run over 6 km total, wright?
Anyway I agree that Tabata is nothing specatular and it is big marketing, when we look at results and how he interprete it, it is impossible to gain 14% more VO2Max for just 6 weeks.

I don't take tabata literally because he just lifted a theory of high intensity intervals. the length of the interval is not important to the theory it is the intensity coupled with inadequate recovery time so you have a gradually deteriorating performance as the rest is insufficient for the interval.
10x400 for me was high intensity and you said you never heard of anyone training that way so i wanted to enlighten you.
and no i did not run 6 km total
4km of intervals. rest was only a 50 meter jog across the infield to the other side of the track. So 4.5 km total for a race that is 8km long. so definitely you can train using under distance training.
Sorry about your marathon experiment, maybe you just aren't made to run. Most of the runners i know never ran more than a 17 mile run before a marathon.Ralpha Serna went sub 2:20 in High school and his longest runs were usually 10 miles.

 

[oldborn]

There is everlasting debate less distance HIIT vs long distance endurance in sport.

I often train in city track field and sometimes join Danijela Grgić (european and world junior champion on 400m) warm up session.
Those stady pace warm up consists from 2000-3000 m, following by drills and interval workouts (total about 5km), which i no longer participate.
So there is athletes who s philosophy depends much on distance and on HIIT, and she is damn fast on 400m for 50,78 seconds.

By another coaches and yours philosophy she would barely run 200-250m for 400 m race, which i still hold as an insufficient distance.

I heard about those guys running less for marathon, again different approach. Mine workouts for marathon consist of 36km longest run and about 100km week total, 4 weeks before race.

 

[runninboy]

There is everlasting debate less distance HIIT vs long distance endurance in sport.

I often train in city track field and sometimes join Danijela Grgić (european and world junior champion on 400m) warm up session.
Those stady pace warm up consists from 2000-3000 m, following by drills and interval workouts (total about 5km), which i no longer participate.
So there is athletes who s philosophy depends much on distance and on HIIT, and she is damn fast on 400m for 50,78 seconds.

By another coaches and yours philosophy she would barely run 200-250m for 400 m race, which i still hold as an insufficient distance.

I heard about those guys running less for marathon, again different approach. Mine workouts for marathon consist of 36km longest run and about 100km week total, 4 weeks before race.

Please dont put words in my mouth, you had claimed you never heard of training successfully in the way i described . We were talking about under distance training for distance.
Now you are talking sprint training. Totally different training & philosphy.
Please understand i was trying to show you examples to help you understand that there can be success with alternative ideas and those have been used for 75 years or more.

I have given you my personal experience and those i know of so you might gain some practical information that is useful to what you previously believed. If you want to try and have an argument by putting words in my mouth i am sorry to disappoint you.
Goodbye

 

[oldborn]

Please dont put words in my mouth, you had claimed you never heard of training successfully in the way i described . We were talking about under distance training for distance.
Now you are talking sprint training. Totally different training & philosphy.
Please understand i was trying to show you examples to help you understand that there can be success with alternative ideas and those have been used for 75 years or more.

I have given you my personal experience and those i know of so you might gain some practical information that is useful to what you previously believed. If you want to try and have an argument by putting words in my mouth i am sorry to disappoint you.
Goodbye

I did not try to offend you, if you feel that way sorry then.

 

[Boeing]

Oh nooo, i could not sleep because that

word to your mother

 

[Boeing]

that term is thrown around regarding cardio on training rides now.

from what I gather is has to do with riding many high level intervals with equal intensity and recovery times. 30sec on 30 off. 2 min on then 2 off. whatever etc.

but i was just listening could have heard it wron

anyone?

 

[oldborn]

that term is thrown around regarding cardio on training rides now.

from what I gather is has to do with riding many high level intervals with equal intensity and recovery times. 30sec on 30 off. 2 min on then 2 off. whatever etc.

but i was just listening could have heard it wron

anyone?

You are so hard to read, where are you come from?
Basically that it is, whatever gonna improve our anerobic capacity. As runniboy mention before, interval itself is not a bigg issue, but insufficient (what a word) recovery between effort.

I am also doing a lot of anaerobic alacticid power workouts which is something about 7-8 seconds max speed sprintsx10 times, with some 2 minutes rest. between variations and up to three series.

Also some anerobic lactacid power which is 30 sec max speed (like Tabata), but with some 5 minutes rests and 2-3 series with 20 minutes rests between.

It has similar impacts, but above workouts has no such a limited and insufficient recovery time like Toyota.

We have hundreds similar workouts and all gonna help if done properly.

 

[Boeing]

You are so hard to read, where are you come from?
Basically that it is, whatever gonna improve our anerobic capacity. As runniboy mention before, interval itself is not a bigg issue, but insufficient (what a word) recovery between effort.

I am also doing a lot of anaerobic alacticid power workouts which is something about 7-8 seconds max speed sprintsx10 times, with some 2 minutes rest. between variations and up to three series.

Also some anerobic lactacid power which is 30 sec max speed (like Tabata), but with some 5 minutes rests and 2-3 series with 20 minutes rests between.

It has similar impacts, but above workouts has no such a limited and insufficient recovery time like Toyota.

We have hundreds similar workouts and all gonna help if done properly.

http://www.crossfitendurance.com/

 

[oldborn]

http://www.crossfitendurance.com/

I do not see anything but another way of making money out of nothing. Yankees (you are?) are really good about it.

Maybe 300 Spartans, Military-Prison cell-J. Lopez-, Jillien Michaels workouts might help also.
It becomes huge industries here as well, and people are getting fat more and more, what a coincidence

 

[Boeing]

I do not see anything but another way of making money out of nothing. Yankees (you are?) are really good about it.

Maybe 300 Spartans, Military-Prison cell-J. Lopez-, Jillien Michaels workouts might help also.
It becomes huge industries here as well, and people are getting fat more and more, what a coincidence

Am I making money or am I Yank?

Both are irrelevant.

The fact that you are super motivated with personal goals and work ethic beyond anyone is irrelevant too

my lazy postings are just that and I am sorry

I thought I saw in there a few workouts posted as Tabata

I agree that the so called health industry is committing genericide with the word Tabata

In short the point I was making had nothing to do with the purest form of exercise and personal willpower whatever you are trying to prove

I was just assuming that Dudes calling their interval workouts on a bike here meant short intensity with equal recovery time. The key being equal recovery time; no more no less than the intensity. break them down into sets of 10 to 12 etc

you post like a vegan

if you ever visit perhaps I could introduce you to this Tantra chick I know

 

[oldborn]

Relax Dude, i can hardly read a half of your words. Humor above all.
What Tantra chick?
I am planing trip to Calabasas to visit relatives, so schedule me a session with her.
Stay well mate!

 

[durianrider]

Did someone say Tabata?
Did someone say Vegan?

Check out my mate Tim Van Orden. He swears by both and just ran 4th OVERALL in the Empire State Building hill climb champs. He is over 40 too!

http://runningraw.com/blog/?p=699

Tim doing a hardcore tabata set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GWXsrQZ_ak

 

[DirtyWorks]

I used very short workouts with alot of intensity to replace endurance work.

I am using this method now and will not go back to doing much long-distance training. Like your running coach way back when, I don't train over race times/distances any more. At most I do half the time/distance at a steady tempo such that the end is really hard to hold the tempo. The rest of my workouts are 20 minutes or less exclusive of warm-up/warm-down. As always, recovery is as important as the intensity.

Volume got me skinny and a tiny bit faster, but plateaus were extremely difficult to break using lots of training volume. Volume models may work for some. Not for me or you apparently.

 

[oldborn]

I would like to meet a elite pro cyclist with weekly January distance under 700km;
Top 50 marathon runner with longest weekly distance under 130km,
and Top 30 Kona Ironman with less then 30 hours weekly of training.

I would like to meet that wonder guy.

 

[Boeing]

Did someone say Tabata?
Did someone say Vegan?

Check out my mate Tim Van Orden. He swears by both and just ran 4th OVERALL in the Empire State Building hill climb champs. He is over 40 too!

http://runningraw.com/blog/?p=699

Tim doing a hardcore tabata set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GWXsrQZ_ak

Looks like your boy Tim mixes in the occasional Steak!

 

[mcmcgill]

I experimented with Tabata for an entire winter and can emphatically say, like someone else mentioned, that it does not help FTP. That winter I did two Tabata sessions per week and the only other work was single-leg presses, leg extenstions and leg curls (+ some upper body).

My first regular ride after this got me a mean case of acidosis in under an hour of trading pulls at under 22 mph.

Although I don't know the numbers, I'm sure my FTP dropped considerably lower than it ever did over a winter of normal maintenance. That said, not sure LSDs help much either (light/short Z3/Z4 intervals seem to work the best for me in the winter).

While I think Tabata workouts, combined with a generic strength training program, is good for generic health/fitness, the Tabata's probably don't help much with cycling performance.

1) certainly doesn't help FTP by itself

2) questionable stimulus for the anaerobic system (does it promote more glycogen or ATP storage in Type II fibers, or improve the rate of glycolytic ATP production?)

3) first 10s are ATP-PC anyway, and not sure how much time a cyclist should spend developing that system of energy (except for world class sprinters)

Just a few thoughts.